The fate of Bury and Bolton- could we/should we help?

[brisfox]

Like most City fans, I watched with dismay at the fate of Bury going bust, likely to be followed by Bolton Wanderers in coming weeks. I can only imagine what the fans of these clubs are feeling this morning. It is only 4 years ago this week when a second string Leicester City side containing a player by the name of N'Golo Kante (whatever happened to him?) beat Bury 4-1 in the League Cup at Gigg Lane. It is only 6 years since Leicester beat Bolton 1-0 to clinch the Championsip at the Reebok Stadium. How things change. Leicester fans of all people can relate to how the fans of Bury and Bolton must be feeling this morning. The question I have is, what could be done to help and should we help?

 

For  Bury the only way forward would appear to be a Wimbledon/ Newport County type set up with forming a new club in the lower leagues. The same applies possibly to Bolton within the next 14 days. Could we , for example, hold a special "Birch's run" at a forthcoming City game. Would City fans support this? The money raised could be given to a new supporters trust for the 2 clubs to help them get back on their feet. Your comments, positive and negative, would be welcome. Some may think "Tough luck, that's football" others may want to help out. What do you think?

[AKCJ]

I'd like to think we could help. But I think any money we'd donate would just go to the corrupt wankers that run these clubs.

 

It's the EFL that need to do more.

[Foxes1]

Personally don't think this would be a good idea. Alright I know we went into administration a few years ago and not many clubs helped us. The problem I see with you your idea is this in the future could happen to other clubs where they get into financial difficulty do we help them as well. I think that the EFL has not done it's job properly in the case of Bury with its due diligence check. There current owner has had companies in the past that have gone bust, why wasn't this queried by the EFL, they are the ones at fault as well but now want to wash their hands of it all.

[Sol thewall Bamba]

The buck stops with the EFL

Edited 28 August 2019 by Sol thewall Bamba

[Guest MattP]

No, it might seem like an idealistic thing to do but we can't be expected to start writing cheques for every football club, if we did others wouldn'y have any desire to start living within their means either.

The owners of the clubs and the EFL are the ones who should be dealing with this.

[Beliall]

yeah it would be nice but until the owner is gone it wont solve anything. am i right in thinking they had several offers but they fell through because that **** wants to keep the land the stadium is on? raising money wont solve that

[lcfcsnow]

Didn’t we sign a youth player from Bury a few weeks ago? We probably have done more than most to help..

[Finn Claw II]

Play both next season in pre-season friendlies and give any gate receipts to them.

 

As others have said - the money has to go to the new clubs not the current ones.  Especially if new clubs owned by the fans are formed.

 

 

[Ansteyfox]

No. I feel very sorry for their respective fans but this is about the very existence of the lower leagues. Both clubs are within spitting distance of two of the worlds richest clubs. The problem stems from the fact that as the Premier League has polarised football, the potential young fans of clubs like Bury are now seduces away to support the big clubs especially those virtually on their doorstep. 

[Foxes1]

Why couldn't the former chief executive of the PFA Gordon Taylor help them out he is the twat that Premier League clubs voted (Not Leicester City) to give a golden handshake of 5 million pounds to that would have helped. Ironically he played for both Bolton & Bury but it is the attitude in football these days of 'I'm alright jack, stuff the rest'.

[davieG]

Maybe the players should be the ones doing something they're the ones reaping all the rewards, do they really love football as much as they say they do?

[foxinsocks]

All the reports seem very vague at each club ...  i think that any money in the club will by be taken by advisors etc.

I think the right thing may be to raise funds for a dupporters trust to try and secure the bury ground for a new club 

[foxinsocks]

22 minutes ago, Ansteyfox said:

No. I feel very sorry for their respective fans but this is about the very existence of the lower leagues. Both clubs are within spitting distance of two of the worlds richest clubs. The problem stems from the fact that as the Premier League has polarised football, the potential young fans of clubs like Bury are now seduces away to support the big clubs especially those virtually on their doorstep. 

Some time back i had lunch with a chap from hsbc who was dealing with lower league football clubs.  He said the wages in div 2 dnd 1 were not affordable. .. of course they are low in comparison with yhe pl... but too high for the clubs... madness

[foxfanazer]

Nope, would just be feeding the problem. I have massive sympathy with the fans of these clubs though. Iy just shouldn't ever be allowed to happen

[stripeyfox]

I don't think "us" helping is the answer. I also think the EFL is not really the organisation to blame. These clubs have been run into the ground by their owners .

 

If I piss all my money up the wall, spending what I can't afford, is it right I come to FT and ask you all for handout? Even if everyone was feeling spectacularly generous, there's nothing to say I wouldn't just spunk it all again?

 

I feel sorry for the fans and employees of these clubs, just as I would do when any business goes under but I don't think a bail out is the answer

 

[foxinsocks]

Cant believe the efl got round to making any decision....  

[reynard]

32 minutes ago, davieG said:

Maybe the players should be the ones doing something they're the ones reaping all the rewards, do they really love football as much as they say they do?

Imagine if every premier league player gave 0.5% of a week's wages to help. Probably be enough to save Bury.

[reynard]

1 hour ago, MattP said:

No, it might seem like an idealistic thing to do but we can't be expected to start writing cheques for every football club, if we did others wouldn'y have any desire to start living within their means either.

The owners of the clubs and the EFL are the ones who should be dealing with this.

Trouble is that is a bit ironic coming from supporters of a club that a few years back didn't live within its means.

The problem lies within the whole structure of the way money is distributed in the game in this country. Whilst the money at the top is obscene it doesn't trickle down in the way it used to. Premier league clubs are happy to try and rip off lower league clubs for youth players. Wages are too high at all levels, driven almost exclusively by the greed that is pervasive at the top of the game and by agents at all levels.

In the 1970s and 80s clubs in the old first division often bought players from lower down the league. I wonder how often that happens now. The introduction of the transfer windows has also effectively meant that hard up clubs cannot sell players at a time of need as they used to be able to do.

The ultimate question really is do we want our unique pyramid structure in football to survive? If we don't then let things go on as they are now. If however, we do, we need a fundamental shift in money distribution. The divorce of the Premier League from the Football League is the main issue here. Either the football authorities need to come to better agreements or central government needs to step in.

It should not be forgotten that although Bolton are now a club in the EFL they were for a time a successful Premier League club and it was during this period that a lot of their debt of the previous years materialised. So whilst it is right to question the EFL over their right and proper person tests that needs to be extended to the Premier League too. Bolton are a salutory lesson to all clubs of a similar size of what can go badly wrong.

They will probably survive but unfortunately for Bury not enough of the football world cared about them to make a difference.

[fox in the sox]

I'm sure all fans of other teams feel for the Bury supporters, but I can't see that other teams or players helping them out is the right thing. It could make matters worse if clubs just expect to be baled out. Also if you help one you have to help others.

[fox in the sox]

2 minutes ago, reynard said:

Trouble is that is a bit ironic coming from supporters of a club that a few years back didn't live within its means.

The problem lies within the whole structure of the way money is distributed in the game in this country. Whilst the money at the top is obscene it doesn't trickle down in the way it used to. Premier league clubs are happy to try and rip off lower league clubs for youth players. Wages are too high at all levels, driven almost exclusively by the greed that is pervasive at the top of the game and by agents at all levels.

In the 1970s and 80s clubs in the old first division often bought players from lower down the league. I wonder how often that happens now. The introduction of the transfer windows has also effectively meant that hard up clubs cannot sell players at a time of need as they used to be able to do.

The ultimate question really is do we want our unique pyramid structure in football to survive? If we don't then let things go on as they are now. If however, we do, we need a fundamental shift in money distribution. The divorce of the Premier League from the Football League is the main issue here. Either the football authorities need to come to better agreements or central government needs to step in.

It should not be forgotten that although Bolton are now a club in the EFL they were for a time a successful Premier League club and it was during this period that a lot of their debt of the previous years materialised. So whilst it is right to question the EFL over their right and proper person tests that needs to be extended to the Premier League too. Bolton are a salutory lesson to all clubs of a similar size of what can go badly wrong.

They will probably survive but unfortunately for Bury not enough of the football world cared about them to make a difference.

Quite a few relegated Prem teams have hit major problems such as Coventry, Portsmouth and Bolton. It is not going to be a surprise when one of them disappears. There are parachute payments, but the clubs who gamble are left with wages/costs they just can't sustain. Bury is probably a different case of having a really bad owner.

[Manini]

This is the EFL’s problem and their problem only. I hope (I doubt it but I hope) that this becomes a watershed moment in football and they start to do proper due diligence and background checks on every prospective new owner of football clubs. Steve Dale has been in charge of nearly 50 odd businesses and 40 odd of those have gone in to administration/liquidation. He had no right having anything to do with owning that football club and the football league should be ashamed that they let him anywhere near it. 

[reynard]

2 minutes ago, fox in the sox said:

Quite a few relegated Prem teams have hit major problems such as Coventry, Portsmouth and Bolton. It is not going to be a surprise when one of them disappears. There are parachute payments, but the clubs who gamble are left with wages/costs they just can't sustain. Bury is probably a different case of having a really bad owner.

Have a feeling the parachute payments were tied up in some kind of deal which effectively meant Premier League clubs could pick off youth players from EFL clubs without paying the fair amount. Could be wrong on that though.

[reynard]

4 minutes ago, Manini said:

This is the EFL’s problem and their problem only. I hope (I doubt it but I hope) that this becomes a watershed moment in football and they start to do proper due diligence and background checks on every prospective new owner of football clubs. Steve Dale has been in charge of nearly 50 odd businesses and 40 odd of those have gone in to administration/liquidation. He had no right having anything to do with owning that football club and the football league should be ashamed that they let him anywhere near it. 

I don't agree with this. Whilst the case of Bury lies within the scope of the EFL the issue of financing the game starts at the very top. Which is why so many of the worst cases of clubs in financial turmoil of recent years stem from falling out of the Premier League, Leeds, Coventry, Portsmouth, Bolton etc etc.  Even Aston Villa were on the brink within the last 2 years.

[Aus Fox]

The other massive problem in the game is agents - agents whose sole job it is to screw every penny out of clubs. 

Simple answer is for the EFL to put in a salary cap for every division.

This needs to be a proper salary cap, not like FFP, a clear day £1,000,000* per season on wages. This includes all employees on the football side of things, players, coaches, physics and bonuses etc.

This way all clubs would know their exact expenditure before a season began. 

They can add up their tv money, their sponsorships and work out exactly what they need to make on the gate or in the club shop etc to turn a profit.

Then for all EFL clubs should refuse to deal with agents altogether, it has to be a wholistic approach to save this from happen to more clubs.

Many clubs are paying crazy fees to agents and being held over a barrel if they want a good player.

Major reforms are required and the EFL need to take a lead or we will have two or three clubs going under a season.

 

* Just a random figure, I have know idea what the average income/expenditure of a  football league club is. The figure may start off at one level for League Two, rose slightly for League One and then again for the Championship.

[Aus Fox]

13 minutes ago, reynard said:

I don't agree with this. Whilst the case of Bury lies within the scope of the EFL the issue of financing the game starts at the very top. Which is why so many of the worst cases of clubs in financial turmoil of recent years stem from falling out of the Premier League, Leeds, Coventry, Portsmouth, Bolton etc etc.  Even Aston Villa were on the brink within the last 2 years.

Without checking I would say other than the top 6 plus Everton every club in the country has been in a dire financial state at some point in the last 10 years. 

Can’t think of many that haven’t either been in or close to administration in that time.