Rugby world cup 2019

[KrefelderFox666]

There is a press conference/statement due at 04:00 in the morning. They can't call the Scotland game off, would be a farce. Either move location or date of match.

[leicsmac]

Having to cancel the game wholesale without a contingency is something of a farce.

 

Even though England and France are both through, as Matt said the match still has connotations - win it and you likely play Australia and NZ on the route to the final, lose and you likely face Wales and Ireland/Saffers. With respect to Finn, I think I know which one of those routes is easier.

 

And this is saying nothing of the Scotland-Japan match.

[Nalis]

What a joke, surely moving the two cancelled games to another stadium in a different part of the country would have been best option as the match is more than 48hrs away, even if the matches were played behind closed doors. Would have been better than cancelling it at least. Englans and France are through and obv Italy would have stood very little chance against NZ anyway but technically they still had a chance of qualifying.

[CosbehFox]

Farce. I’m sorry about the logistical excuse is a red herring for me. Play the games in a different stadium, behind closed doors 

[Nalis]

Gotta laugh at social media (again) in these scenarios. 

 

Comparisions to the washed out games at cricket world cup are laughable. 1 - you can still recover from a washed out match as every game (bar Afghanistan possibly) was far from a gimme and teams had other games to recover points from. Also, it was fvckin rain, harder to predict when ans where it was coming that far in advance.

 

'Its only a game of rugby' is such a cop out comment too. Of course a typhoon is awful for locals and person safety is crucial but doesnt mean the match cant be played elsewhere. 

 

So obvious the Japan Scotland match will be cancelled but they dont have the balls to announce it yet.

[Finnegan]

Tbh, what stands out for me more is the recovery and prep time France, England and anyone else will get going in to their quarters. 

 

Regards the France / England quarter routes, like I said, France were never going to beat England anyway and there's much of a muchness between playing Wales and South Africa than Australia and New Zealand.

 

But England and France now get, what, like near two full weeks rest time? It's not like the cloud doesn't haven't an enormous silver lining for you. 

 

I feel bad for the fans who've travelled and have tickets, especially those with a narrow window who can only get to that game but its possible that they'd have missed any reschedule anyway. 

 

Let's keep in mind that that this is a severe storm, it's a category five super typhoon, its not the average seasonal depression or something and a typhoon hasn't made landfall where its due to hit in years. 

 

Yeah, I agree there should be better contingency but I also disagree that it's wildly different to large parts of the cricket world cup being decided by rain*. You have a cricket tournament in England, there'll be rain, the scheduling should be flexible enough to tolerate it. 

 

You have a rugby World Cup in typhoon season in Japan, the scheduling should be flexible enough to tolerate it. 

 

 

 

(*except of course that this storm has infinitely larger public safety and infrastructure implications than some good old English drizzle.)

Edited 10 October 2019 by Finnegan

[ScouseFox]

couldn’t imagine anything better than scotland not even having a chance to try and not be shit, just being condemned to shitness by higher up. nice. 

[Finnegan]

1 minute ago, ScouseFox said:

couldn’t imagine anything better than scotland not even having a chance to try and not be shit, just being condemned to shitness by higher up. nice. 

 

I'm pretty confident the Scotland game will be on. They'll understand the controversy of a genuinely critical match being cancelled especially one that benefits the hosts at the expense of a "tier one nation" , albeit a "tier one nation" that's ranked below their "tier two" opponent (god I enjoyed typing that.)

 

The typhoon will have passed and it'll just be about damage / clear up which should be minimal and worst case scenario, they could do it behind closed doors. 

[Guest MattP]

5 hours ago, leicsmac said:

Even though England and France are both through, as Matt said the match still has connotations - win it and you likely play Australia and NZ on the route to the final, lose and you likely face Wales and Ireland/Saffers. With respect to Finn, I think I know which one of those routes is easier.

Didn't know that as I hadn't checked. 

 

Daft as it sounds surely you rest the whole first team and give a wink to your players to lose the match. 

[Countryfox]

1 minute ago, MattP said:

Didn't know that as I hadn't checked. 

 

Daft as it sounds surely you rest the whole first team and give a wink to your players to lose the match. 

And take em all out on the piss the night before ..  

And swap all their boots for one size smaller when they’re not looking .. 

And put itching powder in their shirts ..  

 

I should have been a rugby coach ..  

[Finnegan]

6 minutes ago, MattP said:

Didn't know that as I hadn't checked. 

 

Daft as it sounds surely you rest the whole first team and give a wink to your players to lose the match. 

 

Why? 

 

Australia are shit, we should have beaten them far more comfortably, we nodded off in the second half. You beat them 37-18 in the autumn. Whereas we just beat you reasonably comfortably in the Six Nations. 

 

There's a reason they're ranked sixth in the world and Wales and England are ranked second and third respectively. 

 

Wales are also one of the worst teams (probably THE worst after the obvious New Zealand) for England to play on current form, largely because of our horrifically defensive, cagey, disciplined style. Fiji gave us a fright because they can break the line against anyone, England might be a lot more disciplined, tactically intelligent and experienced than Fiji but they're not as creative. We're your worst nightmare. 

 

Meanwhile, Australia leak points like... a leaky thing. 

 

As for having to play the All Blacks in either a Semi or a Final? You still have to play the All Blacks and on South Africa's current form, probably South Africa also. Eddie won't give a shit if he loses in a final or a semi if he loses, he wants to win the whole thing. You've got to basically beat the same teams either way. 

 

[ScouseFox]

yeah was gonna say you presumably play south africa and new zealand either way bar any mad shocks. and we’re comfortably better than anyone else in the competition so fu ck it. 

[KrefelderFox666]

It's ridiculous that these games cannot be moved by a day or two. Much better than cancelling. This is also the perfect time as the QF's are a week away. It would still allow 5-6 days before playing again. Just lazy from the people in charge.

[Finnegan]

12 minutes ago, KrefelderFox666 said:

Just lazy from the people in charge.

 

I don't think lazy is accurate tbf, short sighted maybe, complacent maybe, it's possible they didn't give enough consideration to this in advance. 

 

You've got a number of issues really, one being that the world cup is already having a huge impact on domestic leagues that have already started. 

 

Any delays that would extend the tournament would be hugely problematic as the Top 14, Pro 14 and Premiership all want their star players back ASAP. 

 

And any delay that results in a reduced turn around will be hugely frowned upon. This isn't football, we don't really do two games in a week in rugby ever if it can be avoided. 

 

If you offered Jacques Brunel a game against Wales after a two week break or a game against Australia with a, say, four day break - he'll bite your hand off for the fortnight prep. Nobody wants to play with a four day turn around. 

 

Literally the only game this weekend that decides a group or has any major impact on the expected quarters is Japan vs Scotland which will go ahead. 

 

Honestly, the only losers on Saturday are the fans for whom it's genuinely going to be gutting but who quite possibly wouldn't have gotten to rescheduled games anyway. 

 

[KrefelderFox666]

43 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I don't think lazy is accurate tbf, short sighted maybe, complacent maybe, it's possible they didn't give enough consideration to this in advance. 

 

You've got a number of issues really, one being that the world cup is already having a huge impact on domestic leagues that have already started. 

 

Any delays that would extend the tournament would be hugely problematic as the Top 14, Pro 14 and Premiership all want their star players back ASAP. 

 

And any delay that results in a reduced turn around will be hugely frowned upon. This isn't football, we don't really do two games in a week in rugby ever if it can be avoided. 

 

If you offered Jacques Brunel a game against Wales after a two week break or a game against Australia with a, say, four day break - he'll bite your hand off for the fortnight prep. Nobody wants to play with a four day turn around. 

 

Literally the only game this weekend that decides a group or has any major impact on the expected quarters is Japan vs Scotland which will go ahead. 

 

Honestly, the only losers on Saturday are the fans for whom it's genuinely going to be gutting but who quite possibly wouldn't have gotten to rescheduled games anyway. 

 

I think if the Scotland game was to be cancelled and they go out as a result, they would not be happy. And this should be avoided at all costs.

 

Italy have already been affected in that they now stand no chance of qualifying, arguably they only had a tiny chance anyway but still.

 

All they need to do is move a game by a day or two to accomodate. If this was the first round of fixtures, or in the middle of the group stages, then I agree it would have been difficult. So I hope this is what they do with the Scotland game. If it cannot be played on the current date, either move location or push the fixture back a day.

 

They have had days to work on contingency plans and simply cancelling a game is not really good enough.

[CosbehFox]

4 hours ago, Nalis said:

Gotta laugh at social media (again) in these scenarios. 

 

Comparisions to the washed out games at cricket world cup are laughable. 1 - you can still recover from a washed out match as every game (bar Afghanistan possibly) was far from a gimme and teams had other games to recover points from. Also, it was fvckin rain, harder to predict when ans where it was coming that far in advance.

 

'Its only a game of rugby' is such a cop out comment too. Of course a typhoon is awful for locals and person safety is crucial but doesnt mean the match cant be played elsewhere. 

 

So obvious the Japan Scotland match will be cancelled but they dont have the balls to announce it yet.

Cricket you can shorten the game to have a result still as well. 

[Finnegan]

13 minutes ago, KrefelderFox666 said:

All they need to do is move a game by a day or two

 

But that's not a small thing is it? That's a nightmare in logistics and scheduling and all for a bunch of almost dead rubbers (it's possible I'm being slightly harsh on France but probably not.)

 

Like I've said, I agree it's ridiculous that they dont seem to have very good contingency but I do think people in this thread are going somewhat overboard with some of their reactions. 

 

If Japan Scotland is called off, these reactions will be warranted but as a reaction to Saturday's games being canned? OTT. 

 

Italy didn't have a "small chance of going through" they had no chance of going through, New Zealand were going to win by about fifty points in second gear. Italy are awful. 

 

Seriously, earlier in this thread people were moaning that half the games in the group stage were pointless because they were too one sided and now you want to moan that NZ Italy is off. 

Edited 10 October 2019 by Finnegan

[KrefelderFox666]

25 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

But that's not a small thing is it? That's a nightmare in logistics and scheduling and all for a bunch of almost dead rubbers (it's possible I'm being slightly harsh on France but probably not.)

 

Like I've said, I agree it's ridiculous that they dont seem to have very good contingency but I do think people in this thread are going somewhat overboard with some of their reactions. 

 

If Japan Scotland is called off, these reactions will be warranted but as a reaction to Saturday's games being canned? OTT. 

 

Italy didn't have a "small chance of going through" they had no chance of going through, New Zealand were going to win by about fifty points in second gear. Italy are awful. 

 

Seriously, earlier in this thread people were moaning that half the games in the group stage were pointless because they were too one sided and now you want to moan that NZ Italy is off. 

Leicester had no chance of winning the PL...sorry but you cannot just make it OK because the game was likely to have no effect on the end result. I agree, France vs England not a big deal. Except for the fact that positioning will mean England face NZ in the semis rather than SA/Ireland/Japan.

 

As you state, the big issue for me is Scotland vs Japan. That does have a massive result riding on it and we cannot have a team eliminated from a World Cup because the weather ruined it. Obviously, Japan wouldn't care but Scotland would play it on Wednesday if they could just to get that chance to go through.

[Finnegan]

Sorry but I'm banging my head against a wall here, I'm not replying to you on this issue again after this. New Zealand have never lost to Italy, their aggregate score is about 800-100, the practical chance of NZ losing to Italy is comparable to Leyton Orient winning the Prem, not Leicester 15/16. 

 

The game was and is a dead rubber. 

 

I agree with the principle of your point, 1000%, but world rugby need to make difficult decisions through a lens of harsh reality and the idea of causing logistical upheaval over the possibility of NZ losing to Italy is just not worth anyone's time. 

 

If you chose England France as a hill to die on you'd have fractionally more point but, like I said, I'm extremely confident neither Jacques or Eddie are bothered about a draw, they'll take that. The extra rest time is easily worth finishing second given that both routes to the final are pretty damn similar. 

 

The Scots are the only ones who'd have a major issue with the whole weekend being abandoned and their game probably won't be called off. 

[Guest MattP]

34 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

Sorry but I'm banging my head against a wall here, I'm not replying to you on this issue again after this. New Zealand have never lost to Italy, their aggregate score is about 800-100, the practical chance of NZ losing to Italy is comparable to Leyton Orient winning the Prem, not Leicester 15/16. 

 

The game was and is a dead rubber. 

 

I agree with the principle of your point, 1000%, but world rugby need to make difficult decisions through a lens of harsh reality and the idea of causing logistical upheaval over the possibility of NZ losing to Italy is just not worth anyone's time. 

 

If you chose England France as a hill to die on you'd have fractionally more point but, like I said, I'm extremely confident neither Jacques or Eddie are bothered about a draw, they'll take that. The extra rest time is easily worth finishing second given that both routes to the final are pretty damn similar. 

 

The Scots are the only ones who'd have a major issue with the whole weekend being abandoned and their game probably won't be called off. 

Come on mate don't exaggerate, Italy were about 16/1 to beat New Zealand - it was extremely unlikely but it's certainly wasn't or isn't less likely than us winning the PL.

 

Games like that being called off are completely ludicrous, if we take this attitude it's totally pointless even having a World Cup at all.

 

Even if the odds are 20,000/1 Italy should have the chance to play that game and try and earn a place in the QF - even if it's on a random field somewhere with no crowd.

 

I wonder what the odds of Japan beating South Africa were at the last World Cup? 

[Finnegan]

I'm extremely confident any major pundit would tell you the Japan South Africa result was less shocking than Italy overturning the All Blacks would have been. 

 

South Africa are and were going through a lengthy period of major transition in rugby while Japan have been the sport's most upwardly mobile union for a long time. 

 

Of course it was a shock, it was an upset, but it was probably about as surprising as Wales beating New Zealand would be quite frankly. 

 

Like I've said, I agree with the principle that every team - whoever they are - should have the chance to represent themselves and in an ideal world they absolutely would do. 

 

But it's way, way too easy to get seduced in to the notion that the organisers are incompetent or corrupt or clueless and overlook the fact they're a majorly professional body backed up by countless experts on logistics, insurance, weather, rugby and whatever else and they've come to the hard decision that there's not a practical alternative to cancelling these games. 

 

 

[Nalis]

2 hours ago, Finnegan said:

I'm extremely confident any major pundit would tell you the Japan South Africa result was less shocking than Italy overturning the All Blacks would have been. 

 

South Africa are and were going through a lengthy period of major transition in rugby while Japan have been the sport's most upwardly mobile union for a long time. 

 

Of course it was a shock, it was an upset, but it was probably about as surprising as Wales beating New Zealand would be quite frankly. 

 

Like I've said, I agree with the principle that every team - whoever they are - should have the chance to represent themselves and in an ideal world they absolutely would do. 

 

But it's way, way too easy to get seduced in to the notion that the organisers are incompetent or corrupt or clueless and overlook the fact they're a majorly professional body backed up by countless experts on logistics, insurance, weather, rugby and whatever else and they've come to the hard decision that there's not a practical alternative to cancelling these games. 

 

 

I'm sorry but they should have played the games behind closed doors at a stadium at the other side of the country. Capacity wouldnt have mattered as long as the facilities were fine. Even have it as a double header as the same stadium.

 

I know its harsh on the travelling fans but this scenario is harsh on everyone.

[Finnegan]

48 minutes ago, Nalis said:

I'm sorry but they should have played the games behind closed doors at a stadium at the other side of the country. Capacity wouldnt have mattered as long as the facilities were fine. Even have it as a double header as the same stadium.

 

I know its harsh on the travelling fans but this scenario is harsh on everyone.

 

Surely they've considered this though, I mean, everyone's coming up with these suggestions but I think it's a bit too easy to just believe the organisers are morons and the solutions are easy. 

[Nalis]

Not necessarily easy but doable.

 

Wouldnt surprise me if it was going to cost them big time in insurance to relocate as it may have come with caveats rather than cancelling completely.

[Guest]

Hell of a way to ruin a world cup.

 

Just give everyone 2 points and let's call the finals a draw.