FT General Election Poll 2019

[Bellend Sebastian]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/07/frankie-boyle-election-countdown-praying-prorogue-next-parliament

 

Some belters in here

[Legend_in_blue]

I'm trying to understand Boris from a pro Boris standpoint.  Reading people's comments on pro Boris websites and the like I have come to the conclusion that these people just will believe anything he says.  Last night the usual "well he was cut short by the interviewer again", "how rude of the interviewer not to let him finish" etc etc.  Well, if he actually stuck to the point rather than going off on one there wouldn't be a need to butt in in the first place.

 

It's a shame Labour don't have a better leader, a really strong character would wipe the floor with Boris.

 

 

[Guest MattP]

1 hour ago, SecretPro said:

People still not understanding that YouGov is owned by Tories? 

Yougov specifically polls voters from either side equally on this, hence getting 51-49 and 52-48 from the two debates. All the other polls in that are just Twitter free for alls - where Corbyn would come out on top had he hummed through the entire hour.

 

As for it being "owned by Tories" - it was founded by one, isn't owned by them at all. But does it even matter if it was? If polling companies get things wrong when it comes to elections they'll lose trust and not be worthwhile companies.

 

Britain Elects is owned two Labour members but they do a fantastic job, if for one minute they didn't tell the truth no one would bother with them. 

 

This Corbynista Yougov conspiracy is bizarre even for that lot, I mean virtual every other polling organisation has it the same, Tories somewhere between 40-43, Labour between 32-34.

[Kopfkino]

56 minutes ago, SecretPro said:

I was being serious: YouGov is actually owned by Tories. (And yet it's the only Poll BBC quoted last night). 

 

I don't know what the Express is?! Thankfully. 

Why is its ownership relevant? Its history of reasonable accuracy, better than most polling companies, suggests it measures public opinion well. 

 

The reason it's the only one the BBC quote is because its the only poll conducted that uses proper, thorough research methods rather than a bunch of Twitter polls that don't. 

[Guest MattP]

Pleasant surprise.

 

I wonder if the chaos over Brexit is putting a few of the more mild nationalists off the cause.

[Guest MattP]

3 hours ago, Swan Lesta said:

Just watching Nicky Morgan being interviewed on the TV and it’s just unbearable. It’s not just her it’s fvcking all of them. A valid question is asked and the response is just an on message manifesto soundbyte not answering the question asked at all and repeat...

 

The standard of political debate is just dogshit.

Given she's standing down I can't believe how much effort she is putting into the campaign - canvassing in Loughborough as well for the next candidate.

 

She must have been promised something.

[Vulpine Victor]

7 hours ago, MattP said:

Is this our version of the Russians hacking Clinton's emails?

Only one group taking Russian money, Boris, Farage and Cummings. Putin financed Brexit campaign, why else is Boris sitting on the report into Russian interference in our elections. Mirrors his interference in the USA. Putin getting what he wants. An idiot in charge of the USA and a mini me Trump in the UK helping to weaken the EU while causing the breakup of the UK.

[st albans fox]

10 minutes ago, Vulpine Victor said:

Only one group taking Russian money, Boris, Farage and Cummings. Putin financed Brexit campaign, why else is Boris sitting on the report into Russian interference in our elections. Mirrors his interference in the USA. Putin getting what he wants. An idiot in charge of the USA and a mini me Trump in the UK helping to weaken the EU while causing the breakup of the UK.

The Kremlin will get involved at both ends of the spectrum .........interference must be seen to be even handed ! 

[Guest MattP]

29 minutes ago, Vulpine Victor said:

Only one group taking Russian money, Boris, Farage and Cummings. Putin financed Brexit campaign, why else is Boris sitting on the report into Russian interference in our elections. Mirrors his interference in the USA. Putin getting what he wants. An idiot in charge of the USA and a mini me Trump in the UK helping to weaken the EU while causing the breakup of the UK.

Putin financed the Brexit campaign?

 

You lot are genuinely going bonkers.

[Leicester_Loyal]

4 minutes ago, MattP said:

Putin financed the Brexit campaign?

 

You lot are genuinely going bonkers.

It’ll only get worse on Thursday, we could be in for a few meltdowns. 

[leicsmac]

Well, on the above a thought does occur to me.

 

If I were a state actor looking to forment unrest among a rival country by deniably meddling in their electoral process and had the capability, pushing in favour of who I perceived to be the candidate most likely to inflict maximum division would be the way to go...but I would *also* peddle a little influence in favour of the other candidates too. Not enough for them to pose a problem...but enough that that it becomes apparent and leads to still more unrest, division and confusion about what it's really going on.

 

Not saying that is what has happened or is happening as it's next to impossible to prove, but I think that would be a reasonably smart play - if the goal was to divide and weaken rivals on the international stage.

[simFox]

6 hours ago, Legend_in_blue said:

I'm trying to understand Boris from a pro Boris standpoint.  Reading people's comments on pro Boris websites and the like I have come to the conclusion that these people just will believe anything he says.  Last night the usual "well he was cut short by the interviewer again", "how rude of the interviewer not to let him finish" etc etc.  Well, if he actually stuck to the point rather than going off on one there wouldn't be a need to butt in in the first place.

 

It's a shame Labour don't have a better leader, a really strong character would wipe the floor with Boris.

 

 

You're no better spouting anti-boris rhetoric. You need to look past the people and vote for the party and their policies. 

[Guest MattP]

5 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

It’ll only get worse on Thursday, we could be in for a few meltdowns. 

A Tory majority and we are going to see some insanity from the hard left.

 

Will be a combination of blame - Tories, Red Tories, Lib Dems, Jews, the BBC, Russia, Trump, Brexit, the working class, white people - it was be absolutely endless.

 

Only thing guaranteed is the blame won't be on themselves. 

[simFox]

6 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Well, on the above a thought does occur to me.

 

If I were a state actor looking to forment unrest among a rival country by deniably meddling in their electoral process and had the capability, pushing in favour of who I perceived to be the candidate most likely to inflict maximum division would be the way to go...but I would *also* peddle a little influence in favour of the other candidates too. Not enough for them to pose a problem...but enough that that it becomes apparent and leads to still more unrest, division and confusion about what it's really going on.

 

Not saying that is what has happened or is happening as it's next to impossible to prove, but I think that would be a reasonably smart play - if the goal was to divide and weaken rivals on the international stage.

If that was the case, the Russians would definitely be pro-comrade corbachov. 

[leicsmac]

4 minutes ago, simFox said:

If that was the case, the Russians would definitely be pro-comrade corbachov. 

I'm not entirely sure on that. Corbyn possibly gets the Russians the further unrest among NATO that they would like, but then a majority for Boris which then results in a difficult deal Brexit and a big weakening of the EU also is a decent win for them geopolitically. Perhaps they consider it a no-lose situation and simply hedge their bets. All very much theoretical, though.

 

NB. I'm not sure how much the views of Corbyn and the current Russian elite on, say, most social issues, overlap.

 

 

[Guest MattP]

Just now, leicsmac said:

I'm not entirely sure on that. Corbyn possibly gets the Russians the further unrest among NATO that they would like, but then a majority for Boris which then results in a difficult deal Brexit and a big weakening of the EU also is a decent win for them geopolitically. Perhaps they consider it a no-lose situation and simply hedge their bets. All very much theoretical, though.

 

NB. I'm not sure how much the views of Corbyn and the current Russian elite on, say, most social issues, overlap.

Sorry but I just don't get how anyway could seriously think Putin is even dubious. Brexit is so minor compared to what he gets if Corbyn leads - a Western nation that would completely back Russian foreign policy. 

 

I mean Seamus Milne, his own Alistair Campbell used to openly write stuff like this in the Guardian.

 

 

[simFox]

5 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

I'm not entirely sure on that. Corbyn possibly gets the Russians the further unrest among NATO that they would like, but then a majority for Boris which then results in a difficult deal Brexit and a big weakening of the EU also is a decent win for them geopolitically. Perhaps they consider it a no-lose situation and simply hedge their bets. All very much theoretical, though.

 

NB. I'm not sure how much the views of Corbyn and the current Russian elite on, say, most social issues, overlap.

 

 

A week minded pacifist at the helm in the UK, with a socialist agenda and policies. He would wreck the economy, dismantle our military and bow down to every militant this side of the Nagasaki scorch mark. Russians would love Corbyn in charge. They could even sing the red flag together.

[Leicester_Loyal]

8 hours ago, Legend_in_blue said:

I'm trying to understand Boris from a pro Boris standpoint.  Reading people's comments on pro Boris websites and the like I have come to the conclusion that these people just will believe anything he says.  Last night the usual "well he was cut short by the interviewer again", "how rude of the interviewer not to let him finish" etc etc.  Well, if he actually stuck to the point rather than going off on one there wouldn't be a need to butt in in the first place.

 

It's a shame Labour don't have a better leader, a really strong character would wipe the floor with Boris.

 

 

Exactly the same as Corbyn, or other leaders. Like I said years ago, not many people change their minds with regards to their voting intention, whether that be a GE or a referendum.

[Leicester_Loyal]

Not many people bashing the Russians now, even though Brexit was caused by them and they had influence over the result. Or is it ok when it's on the other foot

[reynard]

1 hour ago, MattP said:

Putin financed the Brexit campaign?

 

You lot are genuinely going bonkers.

Putin may not have done but certain influencial Americans with right wing tendancies certainly did. Who knows how much was contributed by far right organisations and their supporters in this country who are the real winners when it comes to Brexit. Following the vote membership of relatively respectable, in these terms, organisations, such as the BNP rose. Yet below the surface membership and activity by less well know groups such as Generation Identity grew even more. In fact the Brexit vote has been a brilliant recruiting tool for just about every extreme right wing organisation in Europe who now feel empowered to put forward their opinons as legitimate whilst some deliberatley set out, and I won't name them because they are pretty unpleasant, to undermine mainstream news streams in order to put forward their own warped vision of the world. Research has shown that around 30% of those who voted for Brexit believe in the idea of  Great Replacement. Generation Identity are one of the main supporters of this idea. At the early formation meeting of Generation Identity in the UK attendees included members of Brexit supporting parties. Brexit has given these far right organisations a path to claiming legitimacy and many of these organisations pose a far greater threat to our safety and security than other extremists.

[Guest MattP]

4 minutes ago, reynard said:

Putin may not have done but certain influencial Americans with right wing tendancies certainly did. Who knows how much was contributed by far right organisations and their supporters in this country who are the real winners when it comes to Brexit. Following the vote membership of relatively respectable, in these terms, organisations, such as the BNP rose. Yet below the surface membership and activity by less well know groups such as Generation Identity grew even more. In fact the Brexit vote has been a brilliant recruiting tool for just about every extreme right wing organisation in Europe who now feel empowered to put forward their opinons as legitimate whilst some deliberatley set out, and I won't name them because they are pretty unpleasant, to undermine mainstream news streams in order to put forward their own warped vision of the world. Research has shown that around 30% of those who voted for Brexit believe in the idea of  Great Replacement. Generation Identity are one of the main supporters of this idea. At the early formation meeting of Generation Identity in the UK attendees included members of Brexit supporting parties. Brexit has given these far right organisations a path to claiming legitimacy and many of these organisations pose a far greater threat to our safety and security than other extremists.

Sorry but can you provide some evidence for this. Virtually everything you have said here doesn't make any sense?

 

A rise in BNP membership? Have the BNP even contested a seat since Brexit? 

 

If you have evidence the American far-right financial backed it send it to the electoral commission. 

 

Can you show me where that great replacement research comes from?

[simFox]

We replaced our fridge freezer with an American style Samsung, it's been great. Does this qualify?

[reynard]

37 minutes ago, MattP said:

Sorry but can you provide some evidence for this. Virtually everything you have said here doesn't make any sense?

 

A rise in BNP membership? Have the BNP even contested a seat since Brexit? 

 

If you have evidence the American far-right financial backed it send it to the electoral commission. 

 

Can you show me where that great replacement research comes from?

It is a well known fact that following the Brexit vote membership of far right organistaions increased. The BNP don't need to contest a seat to exist. American influence in the Brexit vote ( sorry should have made clear not financial) was well documented in the Guardian newspaper. Also since the campaign and vote memebrship and activity by a whole range of extreme right wing groups has increased. One consequence of the pro-brexit vote has been to give a sheen of legitimacy to the idealogies of these groups and the extreme approach to immigration proposed will add further to that sheen. Of course that was not the intended outcome of the vote and nor do I suggest that those who voted for it thought it would be but nevertheless it is one of the consequences.

There is a report on the great replacement here.

https://www.inquisitr.com/5177508/according-to-a-new-study-supporters-of-trump-and-brexit-are-more-likely-to-fall-victim-to-conspiracy-theories/

Please  note this is a report about  and not the original findings which I know back this up.

 

Of course this may sound like a joke to you but I assure you it is not. Great Replacement theory may sound farcical but it features all four of the basic features of violence inciting ideology. It was also one of the inspirations behind the man who shot down all those people in Christchurch.

There is a pan-European expansion of ultra right wing organisations. The EU and its openess and freedom of movement acts as a buffer to many of the extemists ideas. People also need to understand that extemism is not confined to continent, it links across the world. Social media helps the spread of thoughts and actions. Leaving the EU will not help us to combat this and with it some very dangerous people.

Edited 7 December 2019 by reynard

[Strokes]

5 minutes ago, reynard said:

It is a well known fact that following the Brexit vote membership of far right organistaions increased. The BNP don't need to contest a seat to exist. American influence in the Brexit vote was well documented in the Guardian newspaper. Also since the campaign and vote memebrship and activity by a whole range of extreme right wing groups has increased. The consequence of the pro-brexit vote has been to give a sheen of legitimacy to the idealogies of these groups and the extreme approach to immigration proposed will add further to that sheen. Of course that was not the intended outcome of the vote and nor do I suggest that those who voted for it thought it would be but nevertheless it is one of the consequences.

There is a report on the great replacement here.

https://www.inquisitr.com/5177508/according-to-a-new-study-supporters-of-trump-and-brexit-are-more-likely-to-fall-victim-to-conspiracy-theories/

Please  note this is a report about  and not the original findings which I know back this up.

 

Of course this may sound like a joke to you but I assure you it is not. Great Replacement theory may sound farcical but it features all four of the basic features of violence inciting ideology. It was also one of the inspirations behind the man who shot down all those people in Christchurch.

There is a pan-European expansion of ultra right wing organisations. The EU and its openess and freedom of movement acts as a buffer to many of the extemists ideas. People also need to understand that extemism is not confined to continent, it links across the world. Social media helps the spread of thoughts and actions. Leaving the EU will not help us to combat this and with it some very dangerous people.

[The Fox Covert]

Before this thread reaches meltdown on Thursday evening at Page 201 have a laugh at this!!!

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/cassetteboy-boris-johnson-video-brexit-election-cant-trust-me-hc-hammer-a9233671.html?utm_source=taboola&utm_medium=Feed