FT General Election Poll 2019

[leicsmac]

27 minutes ago, MattP said:

I think it's more than depth of feeling about Brexit now, it's about your vote meaning something. 

 

Ever since that vote our side has been called thick, racist. Seen people try to ignore it, we've watched a biased speaker aided by politicians telling lies then block it in parliament, we've had non stop Blair, Campbell and Major on the TV telling us it's wrong and it has to be stopped.

 

It's far deeper than just the event itself now, these people cannot be allowed to win and Boris is probably now the only man who can make sure that doesn't happen.

...but FPTP, among other factors, means that peoples votes have often meant nothing since that became a thing. I know that Brexit was a whole-house thing where that didn't come into effect...but is that really the whole reasoning behind choosing this particular hill to make a stand on? I mean, I can see it...but again, I don't understand it in the context of the situation as I don't seem to get the monumental importance people tack to this particular issue - there are perhaps other issues where "your vote matters" could have a stand like this, surely?

 

WRT lies and insults, quite frankly I've heard enough of those from both sides to really think that neither side can claim a monopoly on offence and use it as motivation.

 

 

20 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

Yeah and I think Boris is clever in that many of his lies people just don't care about or don't really know about themselves. People don't like lying but they factor some of it in as par for the course.

 

Unpatriotic, simple as that. You would (or maybe wouldn't) be surprised by the amount of times 'he hates this country' came up. Russia, IRA and terrorist affiliations, anti-military, anti tough law and order all came up. These were what less than 12 months since Salisbury and not long after the official reports came out I think so that really did figure more heavily than you might think now but once people have made their mind up, its made up. Also, but more-so at the start of this year rather than backend of last year, blocking Brexit was a thing and I imagine now that's huge

 

So, imo, the Queen's speech nonsense will have hurt far more than it should have. Most people probably don't care about the Queen's speech but they do know when its on. The fact he didn't even know when it was on but pretended otherwise (the wrong kind of lie) will have done him no favours at all with people he needs.

And I think that's a common thread linking wanting to "get Brexit done" and the antipathy towards Corbyn right there, to be honest.

 

Again, that so many people seem to buy into it (both in the UK and out in the wider world) and allow it to shape policy with the ferocity that they do is deeply dispiriting because I honestly, truly believe that it will lead to only one end in the long term - and a dreadful one at that.

 

If that path is the one taken, I truly sincerely hope that I'm wrong, though.

[RowlattsFox]

I live in a pretty crucial seat and its a difficult choice. Currently Tory occupied but Labour are going all out for it and I actually think the Labour MP says all the right things and could be good for the area. But having said that I am more conservative leaning on most things and whilst I am on the fence in regards to Brexit I do think the initial referendum result does need to be implemented.

[Beliall]

I'm coming on here to say the same thing, my mind is being pulled from left to right trying to make this decision, getting flyers from Lib Dems telling me only they can stop Boris, getting letters from labour telling me to vote Lib Dem, I dont understand it at all. I weant to vote labour, but if they are posting letters telling everyone to vote yellow, then what does that do to my vote? why cant we just vote for who we want? why not post a letter asking me to vote labour? I want to vote, but for the first time since i started voting, im seriously considering not bothering. Or Voting Green.

[twoleftfeet]

4 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

but FPTP, among other factors, means that peoples votes have often meant nothing since that became a thing. I know that Brexit was a whole-house thing where that didn't come into effect...but is that really the whole reasoning behind choosing this particular hill to make a stand on? I mean, I can see it...but again, I don't understand it in the context of the situation as I don't seem to get the monumental importance people tack to this particular issue - there are perhaps other issues where "your vote matters" could have a stand like this, surely?

 

WRT lies and insults, quite frankly I've heard enough of those from both sides to really think that neither side can claim a monopoly on offence and use it as motivation.

This is pretty much the first time parliament have decided that having given the people the chance to decide that that decision is wrong.

I am a big lad and I know that salad would be better for me health wise than chips. But I like chips and choose chips over salad you can say I am wrong to do so but it is and was my decision to make.

If after this election the Tories lose and all the Tories decide that you the public are just wrong and fcuk the public we will just stay in power and just under what ever % of the population are happy and got the right answer and the rest you know they are just thick commies who don't know what they are voting for.  Now this "Your vote matters" is sort of important or we should drop the idea of democracy this was a binary decision in or out, many cynics suggested that we would end up like Ireland and have to keep voting until we got the right answer seams they may have been right.

I was right with my first vote and I am siding with the party that says some of us didn't agree with your vote but it was your vote and we will honour that vote not a difficult concept but one at first the labour party agreed and now have decided that we will get the thick gits to try again and haven't convinced anyone that if and when the vote goes the same way that they will indeed honour that vote.

Boris may not always be honest, but he is not suggesting I am thick 

[lgfualol]

What are the odds on Boris screaming "Get Brexit Done" until they win the election, and then resigning? 

 

The next election slogan will be "Get Trade Deals Done". 

[Jimothy]

4 minutes ago, twoleftfeet said:

This is pretty much the first time parliament have decided that having given the people the chance to decide that that decision is wrong.

I am a big lad and I know that salad would be better for me health wise than chips. But I like chips and choose chips over salad you can say I am wrong to do so but it is and was my decision to make.

If after this election the Tories lose and all the Tories decide that you the public are just wrong and fcuk the public we will just stay in power and just under what ever % of the population are happy and got the right answer and the rest you know they are just thick commies who don't know what they are voting for.  Now this "Your vote matters" is sort of important or we should drop the idea of democracy this was a binary decision in or out, many cynics suggested that we would end up like Ireland and have to keep voting until we got the right answer seams they may have been right.

I was right with my first vote and I am siding with the party that says some of us didn't agree with your vote but it was your vote and we will honour that vote not a difficult concept but one at first the labour party agreed and now have decided that we will get the thick gits to try again and haven't convinced anyone that if and when the vote goes the same way that they will indeed honour that vote.

Boris may not always be honest, but he is not suggesting I am thick 

Would be a great analogy if you weren't forcing us all to eat chips instead of salad.

[Guest MattP]

What sound advice from Momentum for the doorstep activists 

 

 

[Bobby Hundreds]

11 minutes ago, MattP said:

What sound advice from Momentum for the doorstep activists 

 

 

This is just embarrassing. I want my labour party back. 

[Desabafar]

It's really simple for me the country voted to Brexit so we should Brexit, there is only one party offering that possibility. We had a vote and that vote should be acted on but I'm fed up with it all now.

 

I don't believe public services will be better under Labour, it doesn't matter who is in charge of the NHS and nationalising stuff is a waste of time. I admit I couldnt vote for Corbyn ever anyway but I voted for Blair and Brown, I wish Labour would return to that normality and be a legitimate option. That's what I hope comes from this election

[Bobby Hundreds]

18 minutes ago, lgfualol said:

What are the odds on Boris screaming "Get Brexit Done" until they win the election, and then resigning? 

 

The next election slogan will be "Get Trade Deals Done". 

Slow cooker-ready.

[leicsmac]

11 minutes ago, twoleftfeet said:

This is pretty much the first time parliament have decided that having given the people the chance to decide that that decision is wrong.

I am a big lad and I know that salad would be better for me health wise than chips. But I like chips and choose chips over salad you can say I am wrong to do so but it is and was my decision to make.

If after this election the Tories lose and all the Tories decide that you the public are just wrong and fcuk the public we will just stay in power and just under what ever % of the population are happy and got the right answer and the rest you know they are just thick commies who don't know what they are voting for.  Now this "Your vote matters" is sort of important or we should drop the idea of democracy this was a binary decision in or out, many cynics suggested that we would end up like Ireland and have to keep voting until we got the right answer seams they may have been right.

I was right with my first vote and I am siding with the party that says some of us didn't agree with your vote but it was your vote and we will honour that vote not a difficult concept but one at first the labour party agreed and now have decided that we will get the thick gits to try again and haven't convinced anyone that if and when the vote goes the same way that they will indeed honour that vote.

Boris may not always be honest, but he is not suggesting I am thick 

I don't think it is the first time to be honest, unless the meaning is an "a narrow overall plurality of people" rather than just "the people" - as I said before, there have been times when someones vote has been meaningless as things have gone the other way due to other factors (usually the FPTP system) anyhow. Why does this issue maintain such primacy?

 

Also Facecloth above pretty much makes a crucial answering point - this is making everyone eat chips, even those who would rather eat salad. By exercising a proper freedom of choice, it's paradoxically limiting the freedom of choice of others - but I don't hear many complaints about that when folks go on about such freedoms.

 

Of course, that was going to happen no matter what the result was given how close it was projected to be and given the consequences would affect everyone, and is perhaps a compelling reason for the vote to never have been held in that manner in the first place because it was perhaps clear that was the way it would play out...but hindsight is 20/20 and it's not like we can go back in time, so here we are. As I've said before, I don't really know what the solution is because I think there is going to be unrest and blood on the floor no matter what happens on Thursday and subsequently, and that is the legacy I probably find most saddening - and disturbing - of all. I may simply not understand the real sentiment behind Brexit and the feeling that powers it and why it's so strong, but it's likely the division between people that it has fomented that is the biggest danger to the future, I reckon.

[rachhere]

1 hour ago, Strokes said:

If it wasn’t for brexit, there is no way I would vote conservative on Thursday.

This is why it's so frustrating. It's been made a one issue vote. We haven't even begun to talk about Education yet, barely anything on climate change, all these issues that really matter and are normally so important to people. These rushed out, ill thought manifestos that will be governed on for the next five years. It's madness. Why are we not just having a referendum for Boris' deal vs remain, because this is effectively how the election is being used.

[Mark_w]

2 minutes ago, rachhere said:

This is why it's so frustrating. It's been made a one issue vote. We haven't even begun to talk about Education yet, barely anything on climate change, all these issues that really matter and are normally so important to people. These rushed out, ill thought manifestos that will be governed on for the next five years. It's madness. Why are we not just having a referendum for Boris' deal vs remain, because this is effectively how the election is being used.

Because Boris would be less likely to win that.

[rachhere]

Just now, Mark_w said:

Because Boris would be less likely to win that.

I thought that for a while, but I am less sure now, not with the way that the polls are going. 

[Jon the Hat]

2 hours ago, Alf Bentley said:

A quickie (for once)....

 

Most polls suggest that 50-55% will vote for parties advocating a 2nd referendum (Lab + LD + Green + SNP + Plaid etc.).

 

Just thought I'd mention it before Boris barrels in with his "mandate" to "get Brexit done" Boris-style.

After all, we heard a lot about 90% voting for parties promising to honour the referendum result after 2017..... 

Haha.  Lets not forget that plenty who advocate a 2nd ref would then vote for Brexit.

 

A Pro-remain colleague suggested at lunchtime that a big majority for Boris would in fact be preferable to a small one as then he can choose to ignore the ERG etc who will no doubt be pushing for non deal come the end of the transition period.  He might be right.

[Strokes]

6 minutes ago, rachhere said:

This is why it's so frustrating. It's been made a one issue vote. We haven't even begun to talk about Education yet, barely anything on climate change, all these issues that really matter and are normally so important to people. These rushed out, ill thought manifestos that will be governed on for the next five years. It's madness. Why are we not just having a referendum for Boris' deal vs remain, because this is effectively how the election is being used.

Why can’t they just accept the original referendum and get the thing done?

[Strokes]

1 hour ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

Are you optimistic about where Brexit will lead? What sort of country do you think we'd emerge as?

There are too many variables right now to have any kind of positivity, I’ll be a lot more confident when we know the result of this election.

[Guest Kopfkino]

1 minute ago, Jon the Hat said:

 

 

A Pro-remain colleague suggested at lunchtime that a big majority for Boris would in fact be preferable to a small one as then he can choose to ignore the ERG etc who will no doubt be pushing for non deal come the end of the transition period.  He might be right.

 

This is my hope with Boris. As a man who goes with the flow of what is most beneficial to him and lacks any principle or vision of is own he could well end up moving a different way on Brexit when the EU puts the squeeze on. A big majority helps sideline the zealots to make it easier for him. 

 

It's clutching at straws but its the only way this election produces a palatable economic outcome.

[Jon the Hat]

1 hour ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

Are you optimistic about where Brexit will lead? What sort of country do you think we'd emerge as?

I am!  We will emerge as a country able to choose it's own path.

[twoleftfeet]

11 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

Would be a great analogy if you weren't forcing us all to eat chips instead of salad.

It was more that the decisions we make aren't not based about what is best for us but on what we want. the nature of democracy dictates that the majority win other wise we would not be a nation but a lose group of tribes still fighting for supremacy.

[rachhere]

5 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Why can’t they just accept the original referendum and get the thing done?

Because parliament can't find a resolution to what Brexit should look like. Don't forget that if it weren't for Boris and his chums, Theresa May's deal may well have passed. This is the ridiculous thing here - he's going on about 'getting Brexit done', where in reality he was a serious obstacle in it NOT being done. It's ridiculous that he hasn't really been picked up on that.

[rachhere]

3 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

 

This is my hope with Boris. As a man who goes with the flow of what is most beneficial to him and lacks any principle or vision of is own he could well end up moving a different way on Brexit when the EU puts the squeeze on. A big majority helps sideline the zealots to make it easier for him. 

 

It's clutching at straws but its the only way this election produces a palatable economic outcome.

I can see that. I don't think he has any particular principles in terms of what he wants Brexit to look like - he just wants to come out the other end as 'the hero' who saved on the day on Brexit.

[Guest MattP]

1 minute ago, rachhere said:

Because parliament can't find a resolution to what Brexit should look like. Don't forget that if it weren't for Boris and his chums, Theresa May's deal may well have passed. This is the ridiculous thing here - he's going on about 'getting Brexit done', where in reality he was a serious obstacle in it NOT being done. It's ridiculous that he hasn't really been picked up on that.

I'll say it again because it can't be said enough - even if all the ERG voted for the May deal. It still lost.

 

That parliament never had any intention of getting it done, hopefully the next one will.

 

They only passed the Boris deal at the first reading because they knew an election was upcoming and the remain alliance in parliament was so dumb they honestly thought all the leavers would turn on Boris if they dragged it past the 31st October. Amazing thing is they consider themselves the clever ones.

[David Guiza]

Boris pocketing a reporters phone after the journo showed him a pic of hospitalised child and, as with every other gaffe, it will be swept under the ever growing carpet.

 

'Any minute now he's gonna do the imaginary tits'

 

https://twitter.com/joepike/status/1204018593656180736

 

[Strokes]

3 minutes ago, rachhere said:

Because parliament can't find a resolution to what Brexit should look like. Don't forget that if it weren't for Boris and his chums, Theresa May's deal may well have passed. This is the ridiculous thing here - he's going on about 'getting Brexit done', where in reality he was a serious obstacle in it NOT being done. It's ridiculous that he hasn't really been picked up on that.

Parliament did not want to get brexit done, that’s why we are having this GE and why the election is solely about brexit. It’s been 3 1/2 years nearly and we need a direction of travel from our elected representatives. We already know what the people think.