FT General Election Poll 2019

[Innovindil]

On the final day of campaigning, 15 former Labour MPs are urging voters not to back Jeremy Corbyn in Thursday’s election.

 

The group cite the Labour leader’s record on anti-Semitism and "extremism", as well as his views on national security.

 

The former MPs have signed an open letter - organised by campaign group Mainstream - that they say will run as full page adverts across a number of local and regional newspapers in the north of England, including dozens of marginal constituencies.

 

The group includes several outspoken critics of Mr Corbyn, including Ian Austin, Gisela Stuart and Louise Ellman, as well as others who have not previously spoken out directly against him.

 

The advert reads: “Everyone wants a safer, fairer society. But in this election the Labour Party is set to deliver the opposite.

 

“We were all lifelong Labour voters and all former Labour MPs. We are voting for different parties at this election, but we have all come to the difficult decision not to vote Labour.”

 

Ian Austin, chairman of Mainstream, says this is a “hard decision for Labour supporters" but “the risk is just too great”.

 

The other signatories are Ann Coffey, Jim Dowd, Rob Flello, Mike Gapes, Tom Harris, Chris Leslie, Tom Levitt, Ivan Lewis, Michael McCann, Joan Ryan, Gavin Shuker and Jon Woodcock.

 

This is more like it. Decent final day banter. 

[WigstonWanderer]

40 minutes ago, lgfualol said:

Brave sir Boris bravely ran away

 

[Guest MattP]

11 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

Mate you don't even have the conviction to protest against your cowardly party leader despite giving out all that bravado, you're walking evidence that there are Tory voters incapable of doing anything other than ticking the blue box regardless of what their politicians do or say so I'm not fussed what you have to say on the matter.

Well that's a strawman and a half

 

The Tory electorate is changing, if you can't see that you aren't paying attention.

 

11 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

I haven't looked at any prediction or polls on purpose, fully expect Boris to win but I'm very interested how it will play out, will be interesting viewing if anything else as we get the result.

Most exciting and fearful night of politics I can remember, we've got 100 seats up for grabs.

[Guest MattP]

12 hours ago, Mark_w said:

Yeah. Should read, C***s, C***s, People, People, C***s, People.

Why are you calling the BNP that? Their most famous leader is advocating a vote for the same party as you.

 

You are on the same side in this election.

[Leicester_Loyal]

19 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

Mate you don't even have the conviction to protest against your cowardly party leader despite giving out all that bravado, you're walking evidence that there are Tory voters incapable of doing anything other than ticking the blue box regardless of what their politicians do or say so I'm not fussed what you have to say on the matter.

Can we save the drama queen melt downs for Friday please Carl? Cheers. 

[Leicester_Loyal]

7 minutes ago, MattP said:

Well that's a strawman and a half

 

The Tory electorate is changing, if you can't see that you aren't paying attention.

 

Most exciting and fearful night of politics I can remember, we've got 100 seats up for grabs.

A lot of Labour leavers are voting Conservative. Rather than Labour actually listening and changing though they’d rather just throw insults at anyone that votes Cons or Lib Dems. 

[Carl the Llama]

1 minute ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

Can we save the drama queen melt downs for Friday please Carl? Cheers. 

I'm not angry, just disappointed.

[Guest MattP]

3 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

David Milliband would have won Labour a majority in this election imo. 

Everyone says that but how would have got leave voters on his side?

The Tories have a solid 41-44% vote based on Brexit, for Labour to win a majority they would need to be polling at ar ound 48-51% against that.

[Alf Bentley]

17 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

On the final day of campaigning, 15 former Labour MPs are urging voters not to back Jeremy Corbyn in Thursday’s election.

 

[...]

 

The other signatories are Ann Coffey, Jim Dowd, Rob Flello, Mike Gapes, Tom Harris, Chris Leslie, Tom Levitt, Ivan Lewis, Michael McCann, Joan Ryan, Gavin Shuker and Jon Woodcock.

 

This is more like it. Decent final day banter. 

 

Mostly previously identified malcontents, malingerers, non-entities, turncoats, trouble-makers, defectors to Change UK & defectors from Change UK. Nothing to see here!

 

Except for Jim Dowd.... I voted for that fvcker in Lewisham at the 1987 Election. I want my vote back, Dowd, you turncoat tosser!

Then again, you couldn't even win Lewisham for Labour, could you, you useless arse! 

 

#FinalDayBanter 

[Alf Bentley]

4 minutes ago, MattP said:

Everyone says that but how would have got leave voters on his side?

The Tories have a solid 41-44% vote based on Brexit, for Labour to win a majority they would need to be polling at ar ound 48-51% against that.

 

I reckon some of that "solid base" is people motivated by a hostility to Corbyn.

A better-liked or more trusted Labour leader would almost certainly be able to peel some of that 41-44% away.

Not everyone - for any party - is overwhelmingly motivated by Leave or Remain, though many clearly are.

[Guest MattP]

7 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

Mostly previously identified malcontents, malingerers, non-entities, turncoats, trouble-makers, defectors to Change UK & defectors from Change UK. Nothing to see here!

 

Except for Jim Dowd.... I voted for that fvcker in Lewisham at the 1987 Election. I want my vote back, Dowd, you turncoat tosser!

Then again, you couldn't even win Lewisham for Labour, could you, you useless arse! 

 

#FinalDayBanter 

We know how you feel with in Charnwood with Stephen Dorrell

[Finnaldo]

I don't get this idea 'moderates' would fair better, the issue is more with Corbyn himself.

 

You could put up a leader with a similar doctrine to Corbyn without a Cold War's worth of baggage and more open to compromise to the right-wing of the party and they'd have obliterated the Tories this election. It's been shown before the public reasonate with this manifesto, its just Corbyn has an abysmal public perception.

 

Labour needs to keep on it's course policy-wise, it just needs a less problematic leader who'll address the anti-semitism question once and for all.

[Guesty]

Don't think I've ever had an election where the two main leaders remind me so much of line managers I've had in the past.

 

One of them: he was an okay bloke, no-one could workout what he did - but he wasn't blind to his faults. Was a little privileged, would take credit for others work, knew influential people and how to sweet talk them. Anytime anything went wrong or there was drama he'd disappear: be off sick or have meetings elsewhere and we'd have to sort it out. Things always ran a lot better when he wasn't around and no-one was sad to him leave. When he left the people who'd supported him then had to try and win all of us around; but due to the damage he had caused it took years until people trusted or respected them again.

 

The other line manager. A really nice bloke but had no actual ability to lead or man-manage. Would let the troublemakers and lazy people get away with murder because he didn't want confrontation. Would even complain about them whilst giving their work to his best employees. Would get annoyed at his good employees when they confronted him with the truth and how wrong it was. Was lucky that he had influential people around him who knew his weaknesses and protected him. In the end, it lead to all his best employees becoming so burnt-out and depressed they all left. Then the team had to be completely rebuilt at a big cost to the organisation - both financially and reputationally. 

 

I have no idea who to vote for this election; there are so many similarities.

[Alf Bentley]

I had to have a look at Jim Dowd's career on Wikipedia, as I'd barely heard of him since 1987, when he failed to take a key Inner London Tory marginal where I was living.

 

I knew that he got elected in 1992, but he then pretty much disappeared from view.

 

Turns out he was an MP for 25 years until 2017.

But, despite a record of consistently toeing the leadership line, the height of his achievement seems to have been a brief period as a whip 20 years ago, before he was sacked by Blair.

 

Otherwise, these seem to have been the key moments of his career:

 

- An altercation with Bob Marshall-Andrews MP in 2005: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/4423152.stm

 

"Mr Dowd claimed a clash happened at about 2130 GMT in the Members' Lobby of the Commons. He went on: "Mr Marshall-Andrews was holding court with three Tory MPs. One of my other colleagues had words with him - I was standing some distance away - and that seemed quite heated. I went over to speak to my colleague and Mr Marshall-Andrews gratuitously issued the most offensive insult directed to me. It was fairly vile and offensive. I demanded that he apologise immediately, but he did not."

Mr Dowd has asked Chief Whip Hilary Armstrong to investigate. Pressed on whether the confrontation became physical, Mr Dowd, said: "I did move towards him. I think the traditional expression is I seized his lapel. I was extremely angry." "There were no blows exchanged."

 

- An intervention in a debate about Intellectual Property to raise an experience involving Worcester Sauce & relish: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Dowd_(politician)#Intellectual_Property_Bill

 

"On 20 January 2014, Dowd made a speech in the House of Commons during a debate on the Intellectual Property Bill, stating that he had asked for Worcester Sauce whilst eating a meal at the Hare and Billet pub and that he was provided with Henderson's Relish. Dowd used Henderson's as an example of "parasitic packaging", implying in the debate that it was attempting to pass itself off as Lea & Perrins Worcestershire sauce. Henderson's Relish is well known within Sheffield and has been manufactured there for over 100 years. Dowd upset supporters of the sauce; the Sheffield Central MP offered to bring a bottle to Parliament and invite Dowd for a meal with him using it – an invitation accepted by Dowd".

 

The Labour leadership must be gutted to have lost the support of such a well-respected political colossus! 

[EnderbyFox]

 

[Jon the Hat]

18 hours ago, SecretPro said:

88% v 0%

 

 

Nonsense.  Most of the 88% was one claim about the cost of the Labour promises at $1.2Trillion, which is no more ridiculous than the $500m a week increase in medicine costs Crobyn tweeted.  Tory's are just more targetted so more slightly different ads.

[Jon the Hat]

1 hour ago, Carl the Llama said:

Mate you don't even have the conviction to protest against your cowardly party leader despite giving out all that bravado, you're walking evidence that there are Tory voters incapable of doing anything other than ticking the blue box regardless of what their politicians do or say so I'm not fussed what you have to say on the matter.

Meh, he ducked one interview.  Corbyn has ducked your call on Radio 5 among others.  He should have done it, but it but one point.  If Boris wins we don't have capital flight on Friday

[Jon the Hat]

1 hour ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

A lot of Labour leavers are voting Conservative. Rather than Labour actually listening and changing though they’d rather just throw insults at anyone that votes Cons or Lib Dems. 

It is rather funny the Corbynistas now demanding people they have criticised and condemned for the past few years now vote Labour.  Good luck with that!

[Jon the Hat]

43 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

I don't get this idea 'moderates' would fair better, the issue is more with Corbyn himself.

 

You could put up a leader with a similar doctrine to Corbyn without a Cold War's worth of baggage and more open to compromise to the right-wing of the party and they'd have obliterated the Tories this election. It's been shown before the public reasonate with this manifesto, its just Corbyn has an abysmal public perception.

 

Labour needs to keep on it's course policy-wise, it just needs a less problematic leader who'll address the anti-semitism question once and for all.

People resonate with anti-austerity - I'm less convinced they resonate with his tax plans or nationalisation of anything.

[Finnaldo]

Just now, Jon the Hat said:

People resonate with anti-austerity - I'm less convinced they resonate with his tax plans or nationalisation of anything.

 

They did in 2017, and I've seen that when they presented a lot of his manifesto promises as a blind test a lot of people agreed with them.

 

He's just an appalling leader that drags it down massively due to the public perception. The manifesto could be more moderate to a degree I'd agree but a total departure will put Labour back to square one.

[Guest MattP]

1 minute ago, Finnaldo said:

They did in 2017, and I've seen that when they presented a lot of his manifesto promises as a blind test a lot of people agreed with them.

 

He's just an appalling leader that drags it down massively due to the public perception. The manifesto could be more moderate to a degree I'd agree but a total departure will put Labour back to square one.

Is it worth standing on a manifesto that the IFS calls "not even credible" though? I get being popular, but what's the point of something being popular if you can't do it anyway.

For so long we've been told governments should do what is right, not what is popular, then as soon as Labour come along now they seem to completely change their opinion.

[Babylon]

2 minutes ago, MattP said:

Is it worth standing on a manifesto that the IFS calls "not even credible" though?

Ask the Tories, considering the IFS said exactly the same about theirs. 

 

Absolutely laughable that Labour are going to be beaten by some clown, whose entire campaign is going around the country saying "get Brexit done" and crashing through pretend walls in JCB's. 

 

This is what we've come to. Politicians have always been sleazy liars, at least they had the common decency to try and hide it. Now it's just lie, cheat, pay for "fake news" adverts, employ Russian bots and sock puppet accounts, with cheap stunts and videos galore. All out in the open and barely even trying to hide it, and people lap it up!

 

[Finnaldo]

2 minutes ago, MattP said:

Is it worth standing on a manifesto that the IFS calls "not even credible" though? I get being popular, but what's the point of something being popular if you can't do it anyway.

For so long we've been told governments should do what is right, not what is popular, then as soon as Labour come along now they seem to completely change their opinion.

 

Probably not credible to be fully implemented, but I don't ever expect a government to fully implement a manifesto, its generally not feasible in the time frame or with any changing situations. 

 

Depends what you think 'right' is, I see it as helping the most people you can, and I see that as the inverse of the Tories, especially when their leader won't even face up to Neil, GMB, or even look at a photo of their failings to said people. 

 

I think that what the Labour manifesto offers, it just needs a fresh face to champion it.

[Guest MattP]

3 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Ask the Tories, considering the IFS said exactly the same about theirs. 

 

Absolutely laughable that Labour are going to be beaten by some clown, whose entire campaign is going around the country saying "get Brexit done" and crashing through pretend walls in JCB's. 

 

This is what we've come to. Politicians have always been sleazy liars, at least they had the common decency to try and hide it. Now it's just lie, cheat, pay for "fake news" adverts, employ Russian bots and sock puppet accounts, with cheap stunts and videos galore. All out in the open and barely even trying to hide it, and people lap it up!

What's absolutely laughable, in fact not laughable, disgraceful - is that 35% of our population are prepared to elect to office a party riddled with so much racism they have become the first party since the BNP to be investigated by the ECHR, with a leader who has campaigned for bombers of a Jewish charity stall to be released from prison, has associated with holocaust deniers, some of the worst terrorist groups in the World and has taken the side of opposition to the West in every conflict since he has been involved in politics.

 

Whatever you think of Boris, and he is a cowardly idiot, there is no justification for electing this mob to govern. None at all.

 

(And Boris isn't very good either, as any decent politician would wipe the floor with Corbyn despite his litany of bribes, not be clinging on with a day to go to a slim majority)

 

3 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

Depends what you think 'right' is, I see it as helping the most people you can, and I see that as the inverse of the Tories, especially when their leader won't even face up to Neil, GMB, or even look at a photo of their failings to said people. 

 

I think that what the Labour manifesto offers, it just needs a fresh face to champion it.

So when the experts say this will actually hurt all taxpayers, including the poorest, you ignore it? Why are we only listening to experts now in certain situations and when they agree with our political views?  The Labour manifesto is ridiculous, it's debatable whether they would even be able to raise the bond yields to even try it.

 

I mean some of the manifesto doesn't even go close to helping people, drivers subsidising the richest train passengers in the country, free tuition fees which comfortably benefit those outside of the working class, the WAASPI women payments. - It's mainly a giant bung to the middle classes.

 

Ironically it's the working class voting Labour now that are being completely conned, not the other way around.

[Tuna]

40 minutes ago, EnderbyFox said:

 

 

In all fairness, he's not going to break off from touring the marginals on the last day before polling day to speak to Jeremy Vine.