SpacedX Posted 8 December 2019 Share Posted 8 December 2019 6 minutes ago, Finnegan said: I don't particularly agree to be honest. Barnes leaves Chilwell fairly exposed in the 433 as it is, a 41212 diamond can drop in quite quickly to a 4141 with Praet and Tielemans covering the wide midfield positions in front of the full backs. It was pretty open today sure but we were happy in that regard. You could play the same system and do so rigidly, sitting in. To be honest, defensive shape is less about "formations" and more about the way you want to play. You can park the bus 352, 433, 41212, 442, 4411, 343 if that's what you want. Thanks for your reply. Offensively the Diamond requires a class DM (Ndidi) to sit, as a shield to the defence ostensibly minus the two FBs who have joined in the attack. I've always maintained that you need quality players to make the diamond formation work - particularly at short notice and if it isn't the regular set up - you need adaptable midfielders. I agree, the greatest strength of the Diamond comes from its ability to remain flexible in CM and defence. The two central midfielders are required to be able to cover as much ground as possible while retaining this shape and flexibility. Crucially in Madders we have a superb creative attacking midfielder an outright number 10 without any significant defensive responsibilities and a virtual free reign. Obviously the Diamond utilises this well, with the fulcrum being the central region and compensating for the lack of natural width. I'd say you also need quality attacking full backs to pull it off. Spurs utilised this and epitomised the flexibility in MF under Poch before it all went to shit. Nonetheless, I'd still be most surprised to see us set up like this against Liverpool and Man City where the threat from the flanks is so potent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpacedX Posted 8 December 2019 Share Posted 8 December 2019 11 minutes ago, Ric Flair said: Tielemans is the worry in a diamond vs the very best as he's just not quick enough to close off the space that this formation can leave you. That said when he is on the ball in that formation he can be incredible so it's a balancing act. I agree. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerrrFox Posted 8 December 2019 Share Posted 8 December 2019 22 minutes ago, Ric Flair said: Tielemans is the worry in a diamond vs the very best as he's just not quick enough to close off the space that this formation can leave you. That said when he is on the ball in that formation he can be incredible so it's a balancing act. 100%. He can’t track a man well enough for us to realistically use the 4-4-2 diamond for anything other than teams we are looking to dominate who sit in a block. I wonder whether changing the personnel and a slight shuffle within the formation would work. Playing Hamza and Ndidi on either side of the diamond allowing Tielemans to play as a “regista” in the Pirlo mould and utilising Hamza and Ndidi’s athletic abilities as workhorses whilst having Maddison free in the 10, I could see working. It’s just whether Ndidi has the mental capacity to play that position just yet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCCFox96 Posted 8 December 2019 Share Posted 8 December 2019 34 minutes ago, Ric Flair said: Tielemans is the worry in a diamond vs the very best as he's just not quick enough to close off the space that this formation can leave you. That said when he is on the ball in that formation he can be incredible so it's a balancing act. That was the one worry with the set up for me - our full backs being left with 2 on 1's. We got a warning shot for that when El Ghazi burnt Tielemans for pace and won a free kick very early on. They managed it fairly well today to be fair and like you say, Tielemans is a baller so it's all good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deeg67 Posted 9 December 2019 Share Posted 9 December 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Line-X said: I agree. Youri looked quick enough yesterday when he tracked back and broke up a scoring chance on the opposite side of the pitch from where he was positioned. I don't see any way Praet is sold or loaned, personally. Sure IMO he should be starting every match but irrespective, top clubs have starting caliber players who play part-time. Depth and options are not luxury items when you're trying to make the Champions League or win a title, they're staples. Edited 9 December 2019 by Deeg67 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzzy_Larsson Posted 9 December 2019 Share Posted 9 December 2019 I think next season may be the real breakthrough season for Praet after being used sparingly this season. The main reason being with the added workload of European football Rodgers will be forced to rotate more and more than likely more injuries will be suffered. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st albans fox Posted 9 December 2019 Share Posted 9 December 2019 18 hours ago, GingerrrFox said: 100%. He can’t track a man well enough for us to realistically use the 4-4-2 diamond for anything other than teams we are looking to dominate who sit in a block. I wonder whether changing the personnel and a slight shuffle within the formation would work. Playing Hamza and Ndidi on either side of the diamond allowing Tielemans to play as a “regista” in the Pirlo mould and utilising Hamza and Ndidi’s athletic abilities as workhorses whilst having Maddison free in the 10, I could see working. It’s just whether Ndidi has the mental capacity to play that position just yet. no chance wilf (or hamza) doesn't play at the base in this formation unless we are playing a weak side at home and then he could consider YT there and rest wilf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerrrFox Posted 9 December 2019 Share Posted 9 December 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, st albans fox said: no chance wilf (or hamza) doesn't play at the base in this formation unless we are playing a weak side at home and then he could consider YT there and rest wilf Where are you exposed in the diamond defensively? Down the wings, where if you don’t track runners you get exposed with 2 on 1 situations. The only time Villa looked like scoring was when they created an overload on the left and El Ghazi missed. If we want to realistically use that formation against better sides, we will need athletic and defensively ability in the left and right centre midfield position. Moving Tielemans inside would actually reduce his defensive responsibilities with both Wilf and Hamza covering. Edited 9 December 2019 by GingerrrFox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st albans fox Posted 9 December 2019 Share Posted 9 December 2019 2 minutes ago, GingerrrFox said: Where are you exposed in the diamond defensively? Down the wings, where if you don’t track runners you get exposed with 2 on 1 situations. The only time Villa looked like scoring was when they created an overload on the left and El Ghazi missed. If we want to realistically use that formation against better sides, we will need athletic and defensively ability in the left and right centre midfield position. Moving Tielemans inside would actually reduce his defensive responsibilities with both Wilf and Hamza covering. Yes but then you lose wilf or hamza covering the space in front of the CB’s ... and against poorish sides do you need wilf covering a side? May as well rest him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerrrFox Posted 9 December 2019 Share Posted 9 December 2019 (edited) 46 minutes ago, st albans fox said: Yes but then you lose wilf or hamza covering the space in front of the CB’s ... and against poorish sides do you need wilf covering a side? May as well rest him Gerrard was the deep playmaker in Brendan’s Liverpool team and Tielemans could be used in exactly the same way for us. With so many players centrally the player in front of the back 4 doesn’t need to be as defensively focused. Juventus used the formation to get the best out of Pirlo as the players on either side of the diamond are defensively focused. Edited 9 December 2019 by GingerrrFox 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st albans fox Posted 9 December 2019 Share Posted 9 December 2019 5 minutes ago, GingerrrFox said: Gerrard was the deep playmaker in Brendan’s Liverpool team and Tielemans could be used in exactly the same way for us. With so many players centrally the player in front of the back 4 doesn’t need to be as defensively focused. Juventus used the formation to get the best out of Pirlo as the players on either side of the diamond are defensively focused. I understand where you’re coming from ,,,,,, just don’t see wilf playing wide in the diamond and more likely to be rested if we play Youri in the pivot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Posted 11 December 2019 Share Posted 11 December 2019 On 06/12/2019 at 08:46, L3n9a said: That’s a fair point, but I think we can all agree he is a much better player than anyone was expecting. Would be great if we could fit him in. Felt the ball moved a lot faster when he cane on against Watford. He is decent, I think he deserves some starts at the very least, but we have 3 top players for 2 positions. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moore_94 Posted 11 December 2019 Share Posted 11 December 2019 Praet has confirmed himself the rumours are false, isn’t going anywhere, wants to fight for his place 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue ROI Posted 11 December 2019 Share Posted 11 December 2019 No chance he would go so soon after signing. He would be one of the best players for a side outside the top 7 or 8 but just is unfortunate that our midfield is one of the strongest around. Maybe wait until one of the others is sold and then he could feature more. He's shown far more than say Luis Hernandez who left after a couple of months Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sm1 Posted 11 December 2019 Share Posted 11 December 2019 Literally no chance of him going anywhere. Having watched the Villa game again I was amazed at just how good Praet is. His work rate coupled with his speed and range of passing is great. I'm surprised he's not got a bigger profile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deeg67 Posted 11 December 2019 Share Posted 11 December 2019 Praet is IMO one of the 3-4 best overall players on our roster. When he gets regular playing time he’ll prove that without doubt. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UniFox21 Posted 12 December 2019 Share Posted 12 December 2019 9 hours ago, Deeg67 said: Praet is IMO one of the 3-4 best overall players on our roster. When he gets regular playing time he’ll prove that without doubt. He has that ability to just float with the ball, almost with ease. His passing range has just been phenomenal, hopefully we see more of him soon. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deeg67 Posted 12 December 2019 Share Posted 12 December 2019 21 minutes ago, UniFox21 said: He has that ability to just float with the ball, almost with ease. His passing range has just been phenomenal, hopefully we see more of him soon. The more I see that ball to Vardy against Villa the more astonishing it was. It's not only his effortless ability on the ball - it's his way of finding space to be an outlet, and his two-way play as well. In a sense he's a better version of all the good things Iborra was with none of the liabilities. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Flair Posted 12 December 2019 Share Posted 12 December 2019 Praet is sensational, I also think there's goals in him if he forces his way in to this team. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UniFox21 Posted 12 December 2019 Share Posted 12 December 2019 2 hours ago, Deeg67 said: The more I see that ball to Vardy against Villa the more astonishing it was. It's not only his effortless ability on the ball - it's his way of finding space to be an outlet, and his two-way play as well. In a sense he's a better version of all the good things Iborra was with none of the liabilities. It's such a brilliant pass too; that technique of getting it that far over and down is difficult and he did it perfectly. He's a more mobile iborra; or a Silva with the ability to move the ball quickly with a physical presence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts