Tactics Talk:

[davieG]

https://totalfootballanalysis.com/data-analysis/premier-league-2022-23-chelsea-vs-leicester-data-viz-stats-and-insights

 

Premier League 2022/23: Chelsea vs Leicester – data viz, stats and insights
Saturday saw Chelsea vs Leicester in the Premier League.

We’ve broken down all the key stats for you to digest in this tactical analysis and provide insights around;

[yorkie1999]

The only thing missing is the foxes badge

 https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/12686018/real-madrid-practice-free-kicks-against-robot-defenders

[davieG]

https://www.espn.co.uk/sports/insider/soccer/insider/story/_/id/34554889/leicester-city-collapse-how-foxes-went-top-four-being-relegation-candidates

 

Leicester City's collapse: How the Foxes went from top four to being relegation candidates

 

Not tactics but a more 'technical' explanation.

[StriderHiryu]

Today we saw both the good and bad of the system we currently play.

 

It's 433 in effect with one pivot (Ndidi) and two 8's in KDH and Tielemans. The unique twist we have is that Maddison drifts in field, Castagne pushes up as the right winger and Tielemans sometimes goes to cover Castagne, as there is tons of space in behind him. When we are on the front foot it can be extremely effective. Maddison was clear MOTM, but Castagne too was very good. The problem is on the turnover we are wide open as players vacate the space, leaving to massive gaps. Forest should have scored a few goals today, though we could have easily scored a few more ourselves.

 

 

^ A feature of our play from this season. Castagne basically as a makeshift right winger and Maddison in the centre, with Tielemans filling in for the bombing Castagne.

 

Interestingly enough Liverpool have a similar style problem to us. Alexander-Arnold bombs forward and there are gaps behind him. This season, they have not pressed nearly as much as previous seasons, getting outrun in midfield, and that's why they have dropped a lot more points than usual.

 

I think we have to be a bit more pragmatic in our play. It can work, and does get a real tune out of Maddison. I think losing Ricardo was a huge blow; Castagne has been OK but Justin has been poor, and I think having Castagne on the left and Ricardo on the right would fix a few issues as we'd be a bit more stable. Ndidi has also been out of form for a while and Soumare not a good replacement. We've gone ahead in quite a few games, but perhaps we have to have spells where we sit back and counter the opposition too? Or at least play that way against certain sides, because I feel like a lot of mistakes against Arsenal and Spurs were because of pushing up too much.

 

This also doesn't take into account Ward who is the big weak link. If Rodgers isn't going to play Iversen then fair enough but Ward is NOT the answer. No wonder we were looking at Robert Sanchez of Brighton, or even Vlachodimos of Benfica who was wanted by Ajax. Technical keepers that are good shot stoppers / at claiming crosses and great with their feet.

 

It will be interesting to see what we do as a club going forwards. When Rodgers first came in, his high pressing football was truly joyful to watch and we took advantage of Arsenal and Spurs falling off. The problem is all the traditional top 6 are good again (Man U the weakest, but can make superstar signings), so even if we stay up this season, how do we get closer to the European places again? We've got to think outside the box somehow, but not sure how we'd do that.

 

It will be interesting to see how Brighton do this season. After several years of being OK, their team has really clicked and they are unlucky they lost 2 major players and their manager. Which is the same problem that happened to Southampton many years ago too. That's why we have invested into infrastructure but I can't see us getting any higher than 7th for a long time, even if we survive this time round.

 

Despite this being a great result and overall very good performance, we have a lot of work to do. We've got to beat Bournemouth, Forest and Fulham I think, or at least not lose to them. We should on paper be better than Wolves and Brentford too this season, so between that lot and Villa we should have enough to survive.

[FoxesWalk]

2 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

Today we saw both the good and bad of the system we currently play.

 

It's 433 in effect with one pivot (Ndidi) and two 8's in KDH and Tielemans. The unique twist we have is that Maddison drifts in field, Castagne pushes up as the right winger and Tielemans sometimes goes to cover Castagne, as there is tons of space in behind him. When we are on the front foot it can be extremely effective. Maddison was clear MOTM, but Castagne too was very good. The problem is on the turnover we are wide open as players vacate the space, leaving to massive gaps. Forest should have scored a few goals today, though we could have easily scored a few more ourselves.

 

 

^ A feature of our play from this season. Castagne basically as a makeshift right winger and Maddison in the centre, with Tielemans filling in for the bombing Castagne.

 

Interestingly enough Liverpool have a similar style problem to us. Alexander-Arnold bombs forward and there are gaps behind him. This season, they have not pressed nearly as much as previous seasons, getting outrun in midfield, and that's why they have dropped a lot more points than usual.

 

I think we have to be a bit more pragmatic in our play. It can work, and does get a real tune out of Maddison. I think losing Ricardo was a huge blow; Castagne has been OK but Justin has been poor, and I think having Castagne on the left and Ricardo on the right would fix a few issues as we'd be a bit more stable. Ndidi has also been out of form for a while and Soumare not a good replacement. We've gone ahead in quite a few games, but perhaps we have to have spells where we sit back and counter the opposition too? Or at least play that way against certain sides, because I feel like a lot of mistakes against Arsenal and Spurs were because of pushing up too much.

 

This also doesn't take into account Ward who is the big weak link. If Rodgers isn't going to play Iversen then fair enough but Ward is NOT the answer. No wonder we were looking at Robert Sanchez of Brighton, or even Vlachodimos of Benfica who was wanted by Ajax. Technical keepers that are good shot stoppers / at claiming crosses and great with their feet.

 

It will be interesting to see what we do as a club going forwards. When Rodgers first came in, his high pressing football was truly joyful to watch and we took advantage of Arsenal and Spurs falling off. The problem is all the traditional top 6 are good again (Man U the weakest, but can make superstar signings), so even if we stay up this season, how do we get closer to the European places again? We've got to think outside the box somehow, but not sure how we'd do that.

 

It will be interesting to see how Brighton do this season. After several years of being OK, their team has really clicked and they are unlucky they lost 2 major players and their manager. Which is the same problem that happened to Southampton many years ago too. That's why we have invested into infrastructure but I can't see us getting any higher than 7th for a long time, even if we survive this time round.

 

Despite this being a great result and overall very good performance, we have a lot of work to do. We've got to beat Bournemouth, Forest and Fulham I think, or at least not lose to them. We should on paper be better than Wolves and Brentford too this season, so between that lot and Villa we should have enough to survive.

I think our setup is far too open to sustain in this league. We need to play an actual winger and move Maddison back into the middle unfortunately. Any manager worth his salt should able to get easy chances vs us by exploiting our right side.

 

Downside is… no winger of the required standard. Perez or Albrighton would do a better job out there than Maddison though from a defensive perspective.

[Shane]

1 minute ago, StriderHiryu said:

Today we saw both the good and bad of the system we currently play.

 

It's 433 in effect with one pivot (Ndidi) and two 8's in KDH and Tielemans. The unique twist we have is that Maddison drifts in field, Castagne pushes up as the right winger and Tielemans sometimes goes to cover Castagne, as there is tons of space in behind him. When we are on the front foot it can be extremely effective. Maddison was clear MOTM, but Castagne too was very good. The problem is on the turnover we are wide open as players vacate the space, leaving to massive gaps. Forest should have scored a few goals today, though we could have easily scored a few more ourselves.

 

 

^ A feature of our play from this season. Castagne basically as a makeshift right winger and Maddison in the centre, with Tielemans filling in for the bombing Castagne.

 

Interestingly enough Liverpool have a similar style problem to us. Alexander-Arnold bombs forward and there are gaps behind him. This season, they have not pressed nearly as much as previous seasons, getting outrun in midfield, and that's why they have dropped a lot more points than usual.

 

I think we have to be a bit more pragmatic in our play. It can work, and does get a real tune out of Maddison. I think losing Ricardo was a huge blow; Castagne has been OK but Justin has been poor, and I think having Castagne on the left and Ricardo on the right would fix a few issues as we'd be a bit more stable. Ndidi has also been out of form for a while and Soumare not a good replacement. We've gone ahead in quite a few games, but perhaps we have to have spells where we sit back and counter the opposition too? Or at least play that way against certain sides, because I feel like a lot of mistakes against Arsenal and Spurs were because of pushing up too much.

 

This also doesn't take into account Ward who is the big weak link. If Rodgers isn't going to play Iversen then fair enough but Ward is NOT the answer. No wonder we were looking at Robert Sanchez of Brighton, or even Vlachodimos of Benfica who was wanted by Ajax. Technical keepers that are good shot stoppers / at claiming crosses and great with their feet.

 

It will be interesting to see what we do as a club going forwards. When Rodgers first came in, his high pressing football was truly joyful to watch and we took advantage of Arsenal and Spurs falling off. The problem is all the traditional top 6 are good again (Man U the weakest, but can make superstar signings), so even if we stay up this season, how do we get closer to the European places again? We've got to think outside the box somehow, but not sure how we'd do that.

 

It will be interesting to see how Brighton do this season. After several years of being OK, their team has really clicked and they are unlucky they lost 2 major players and their manager. Which is the same problem that happened to Southampton many years ago too. That's why we have invested into infrastructure but I can't see us getting any higher than 7th for a long time, even if we survive this time round.

 

Despite this being a great result and overall very good performance, we have a lot of work to do. We've got to beat Bournemouth, Forest and Fulham I think, or at least not lose to them. We should on paper be better than Wolves and Brentford too this season, so between that lot and Villa we should have enough to survive.

The shape on the turnover is a worry. So much space for the opposition to counter down our right hand side. 

 

I think for some games we have to consider playing Perez or Albrighton on the right and moving Maddison to the middle. 

[StriderHiryu]

3 minutes ago, FoxesWalk said:

I think our setup is far too open to sustain in this league. We need to play an actual winger and move Maddison back into the middle unfortunately. Any manager worth his salt should able to get easy chances vs us by exploiting our right side.

 

Downside is… no winger of the required standard. Perez or Albrighton would do a better job out there than Maddison though from a defensive perspective.

Objectively true - look at our results! So in agreement with you there, which is why I'm not such a fan. Honestly I think we'd need prime Kante to consistently make the tactic work, someone with insane tackling and stamina in the middle. *Maybe* with Ndidi in top form and Ricardo who both have great tackling stats it could work. Maybe. For me 4231 is more consistent but...

 

2 minutes ago, Shane said:

The shape on the turnover is a worry. So much space for the opposition to counter down our right hand side. 

 

I think for some games we have to consider playing Perez or Albrighton on the right and moving Maddison to the middle. 

Agreed. But I do see why Rodgers tried the system this way. Perez was good or us... when Ricardo was in top form. With no Riccy P, Perez is an impact player, Albrighton solid but not creative. We are a bit of a one man team at the moment. Put a good right winger in this team and we could go back to 4231 and look great in it. But we weren't able to back the manager, even after the Fofana sale.

 

I will probably get slated for saying this, but I think Rodgers tactics would work better at teams with better players overall, which is why his Liverpool team for a while were fantastic. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying he's an elite manager, but front foot play is usually more effective with squads with tons of great players. He did basically admit on Sky today to Jamie Carragher that he's not one to go pragmatic, and that may well be what cost us points at various times over the years.

 

I'm curious to see how Potter does a Chelsea, who is similar in many ways to Rodgers in his philosophies.

[davieG]

https://totalfootballanalysis.com/stats-pack/premier-league-2022-23-everton-vs-leicester-city-data-viz-stats-and-insights

 

Premier League 2022/23: Everton vs Leicester City – data viz, stats and insights

[MarriedaLeicesterGirl]

10 hours ago, davieG said:

https://totalfootballanalysis.com/stats-pack/premier-league-2022-23-everton-vs-leicester-city-data-viz-stats-and-insights

 

Premier League 2022/23: Everton vs Leicester City – data viz, stats and insights

Tielemans heat map is insane. I admit I very well might not have noticed, but he seems to be playing a lot deeper than usual.

 

Shameless self-promotion: I am hosting a pub quiz at the 1852 Brewery Co. in Wigston on Sunday Nov. 13 at 8pm. C'mon down.

[BenTayfour]

A good watch on Morocco's surprising performance in a Tactical Scope, playing in 4 1 4 1 and 4 3 3 similar to our shape sometimes means that we can really borrow some of their Tactics and implement them in games against superior opponent since morocco's world cup path vouch it's effectiveness.

 

Having 0 goals conceded from opposition player so far, means it would definitely help us securing the lead unlike pre-current form where switching into defence mode to secure lead was nothing but a liability.

 

 

 

 

Edited 14 December 2022 by BenTayfour

[StriderHiryu]

After we signed Tete, the big question was what formation we would use. In the past Rodgers has used a 4231 with a double pivot and number 10 in Maddison and a 4141 with two number 8s. However, for most of the last 12 months, we've been playing a 433. Today we went with a 433 but it was notable for the way we used Iheanacho who rarely starts for us, who played in what could be described as a "False 9" position.

 

This was how we lined up. A front 3 with 3 energetic midfielders. Youri was the deepest lying midfielder, but wasn't playing specifically as a destroyer in the way Ndidi used to do in the 4141:

 

 

Here's a great example of that setup for Nacho's second goal. This cross from the impressive Victor Kristiansen would be repelled by the Villa defence, only for Harvey Barnes to cross it back it for Nacho. But look at the positioning, both Kristiansen AND Castagne are very high up. When we played 4231 / 4141, one fullback would sit whilst the other would attack, but in this system, which is very Liverpool 2019/20 esque, both attack the game at the same time.

 

 

But for most of the game, Iheanacho would drop deep so that Maddison, Barnes and Tete could run past him. Kelechi drags defenders towards him and out of the opposition box, vacating space for our other attacking players to run into.

 

 

And here is the perfect example of that in action for our third goal. Nacho comes deep for the ball, with Tete immediately alert and running into the acres of space that have now appeared. Look at Barnes at the top of the picture too, he's on his bike and ready to sprint past Kelechi too.

 

 

The issue with this system is that in not having a true CDM, spaces are given up in the middle of the park and between the lines for opposition players to take advantage of. And today Emi Buendia really took advantage of this and we were VERY fortunate that he did not score.

 

In this first screenshot for the first Villa goal, look at how much space he has. He's even got his arms out wide asking for the ball and indicating how he's got so much time to do something with the ball.

 

 

Buendia did seem to have some sort of free role or licence to drift, meaning he could always find space. But this screenshot in the second half that led to a chance for Bailey which he should have scored highlights the same problem. Buendia is on the edges of the box and has way too much time and space. KDH is the nearest player to him, but positionally is not in the wrong position as he's holding the shape for a 433. Perhaps here, blame needs to be put on Tete who is jogging back, when he should be alert and further back to help defend.

 

 

 

It's early days for this new system, but it was very exciting to watch today. It's also somewhat proven as Liverpool used it with amazing results. Now they ended up changing their system to more of a possession based system by signing Thiago, but they are a club that are expected to challenge for every trophy. For us, it's an exciting way to play that can achieve results. I don't think we will see it used against certain teams (definitely not Man City or Arsenal), but it will be interesting to see if we go this way against Spurs. I think we will do given we are at home, though perhaps one of KDH or Tielemans will be dropped for more of an out and out CDM for that one.

[Paninistickers]

Great post. Thanks. I have to say I found the structure (lack of) borderline suicidal at times. Like the old Ossie Ardiles Spurs team,.for those who remember. 

 

We have to install Mendy to glue the thing together. Personally, I'd play Tielemans alongside and, as he did against Brighton, run himself to near exhaustion til 60 mins and then a pre planned swap for KDH, who can then run har  

 

Someone mentioned on another thread a while ago, football needs to rid itself of the substitute stigma and instead see certain subs as 'finishers', a little like Rugby bringing on heavy forwards for a recharge of power with 25 left. 

 

 

[Shane]

Good post @StriderHiryu.
 

31 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

perhaps one of KDH or Tielemans will be dropped for more of an out and out CDM for that one.

A proper CDM is the missing link for me. Against an average Villa side you can get away with playing no out and out CDM. But the better teams will punish you.
 

I hope the manager makes the right call for the next 3 games.

 

[kenny]

44 minutes ago, Paninistickers said:

Great post. Thanks. I have to say I found the structure (lack of) borderline suicidal at times. Like the old Ossie Ardiles Spurs team,.for those who remember. 

 

We have to install Mendy to glue the thing together. Personally, I'd play Tielemans alongside and, as he did against Brighton, run himself to near exhaustion til 60 mins and then a pre planned swap for KDH, who can then run har  

 

Someone mentioned on another thread a while ago, football needs to rid itself of the substitute stigma and instead see certain subs as 'finishers', a little like Rugby bringing on heavy forwards for a recharge of power with 25 left. 

 

 

 

54 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

After we signed Tete, the big question was what formation we would use. In the past Rodgers has used a 4231 with a double pivot and number 10 in Maddison and a 4141 with two number 8s. However, for most of the last 12 months, we've been playing a 433. Today we went with a 433 but it was notable for the way we used Iheanacho who rarely starts for us, who played in what could be described as a "False 9" position.

 

This was how we lined up. A front 3 with 3 energetic midfielders. Youri was the deepest lying midfielder, but wasn't playing specifically as a destroyer in the way Ndidi used to do in the 4141:

 

 

Here's a great example of that setup for Nacho's second goal. This cross from the impressive Victor Kristiansen would be repelled by the Villa defence, only for Harvey Barnes to cross it back it for Nacho. But look at the positioning, both Kristiansen AND Castagne are very high up. When we played 4231 / 4141, one fullback would sit whilst the other would attack, but in this system, which is very Liverpool 2019/20 esque, both attack the game at the same time.

 

 

But for most of the game, Iheanacho would drop deep so that Maddison, Barnes and Tete could run past him. Kelechi drags defenders towards him and out of the opposition box, vacating space for our other attacking players to run into.

 

 

And here is the perfect example of that in action for our third goal. Nacho comes deep for the ball, with Tete immediately alert and running into the acres of space that have now appeared. Look at Barnes at the top of the picture too, he's on his bike and ready to sprint past Kelechi too.

 

 

The issue with this system is that in not having a true CDM, spaces are given up in the middle of the park and between the lines for opposition players to take advantage of. And today Emi Buendia really took advantage of this and we were VERY fortunate that he did not score.

 

In this first screenshot for the first Villa goal, look at how much space he has. He's even got his arms out wide asking for the ball and indicating how he's got so much time to do something with the ball.

 

 

Buendia did seem to have some sort of free role or licence to drift, meaning he could always find space. But this screenshot in the second half that led to a chance for Bailey which he should have scored highlights the same problem. Buendia is on the edges of the box and has way too much time and space. KDH is the nearest player to him, but positionally is not in the wrong position as he's holding the shape for a 433. Perhaps here, blame needs to be put on Tete who is jogging back, when he should be alert and further back to help defend.

 

 

 

It's early days for this new system, but it was very exciting to watch today. It's also somewhat proven as Liverpool used it with amazing results. Now they ended up changing their system to more of a possession based system by signing Thiago, but they are a club that are expected to challenge for every trophy. For us, it's an exciting way to play that can achieve results. I don't think we will see it used against certain teams (definitely not Man City or Arsenal), but it will be interesting to see if we go this way against Spurs. I think we will do given we are at home, though perhaps one of KDH or Tielemans will be dropped for more of an out and out CDM for that one.

Just in case no one else says it. Please keep these posts up, really inciteful and well written as always.

[StriderHiryu]

1 hour ago, Paninistickers said:

Great post. Thanks. I have to say I found the structure (lack of) borderline suicidal at times. Like the old Ossie Ardiles Spurs team,.for those who remember. 

 

We have to install Mendy to glue the thing together. Personally, I'd play Tielemans alongside and, as he did against Brighton, run himself to near exhaustion til 60 mins and then a pre planned swap for KDH, who can then run har  

 

Someone mentioned on another thread a while ago, football needs to rid itself of the substitute stigma and instead see certain subs as 'finishers', a little like Rugby bringing on heavy forwards for a recharge of power with 25 left. 

 

 

 

34 minutes ago, Shane said:

Good post @StriderHiryu.
 

A proper CDM is the missing link for me. Against an average Villa side you can get away with playing no out and out CDM. But the better teams will punish you.
 

I hope the manager makes the right call for the next 3 games.

 

Well here's the thing. When Liverpool played it they used Fabinho as the CDM, but he wasn't really there for a colossal amount of tackles and interceptions, though he did help with that. Their system is kind of "all or nothing" and when they push right up in the opposition team's faces, you can suffocate them and pin them in.

 

But that said, Rodgers brought on Mendy for a reason, because we needed that discipline. He came on for KDH who for me was a MOTM contender with his brilliant pressing. But to see the game out we needed someone who would sit and protect, not someone who would cavalier about.

 

Anyway both of you make excellent points and I wouldn't disagree with you. If you note when we signed Soumare, he was supposed to be a hybrid between Ndidi and Tielemans, which for a 433... is exactly the type of player you'd want at the base of the midfield 3, a mini-Fabinho if you will.

[StriderHiryu]

Great thread from Tacticar_LCFC on Twitter:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 11 February 2023 by StriderHiryu

[BenTayfour]

@StriderHiryuHi mate ! If you have time of course, Would you like to do a tactical breakdown on Simth's ball in LCFC, what we will be seeing in the upcoming game, what players are gonna be featured, how we will stuff and all the great stuff you usually do here, I think with a new manager it would be nice to being this thread back to life as there will be new things to learn more often, thanks in advance. 🦊👍

[StriderHiryu]

10 hours ago, BenTayfour said:

@StriderHiryuHi mate ! If you have time of course, Would you like to do a tactical breakdown on Simth's ball in LCFC, what we will be seeing in the upcoming game, what players are gonna be featured, how we will stuff and all the great stuff you usually do here, I think with a new manager it would be nice to being this thread back to life as there will be new things to learn more often, thanks in advance. 🦊👍

This season is so depressing I’m not sure I want to!

 

Perhaps in a few games as one game isn’t much to go on, especially as most teams do something different against Man City. 

[StanSP]

19 hours ago, BenTayfour said:

@StriderHiryuHi mate ! If you have time of course, Would you like to do a tactical breakdown on Simth's ball in LCFC, what we will be seeing in the upcoming game, what players are gonna be featured, how we will stuff and all the great stuff you usually do here, I think with a new manager it would be nice to being this thread back to life as there will be new things to learn more often, thanks in advance. 🦊👍

Good thread here... 

 

 

[foxinsocks]

10 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Good thread here... 

 

 

Shakey always said the players should move the ball forward with one touch if possible - two at most.

I watch a lot of EPL and one tactic that works well is that on getting into midfield - if there is no short pass on then play the ball long into the space behind (eg: arsenal play it to martinelli or saka to chase )  this is a 50: 50 ball but they win a fair few as the defenders are back peddling.  We need to do this - rodgers had us pass back (witness madders coming unstuck on a 40yrd backpass).

 

A further tip would be to play barnes on the right and tete on the  left - so that when we get to the bye line - the defenders are still running back and the player at the bye line can cross to the near post or cut it back for an incoming Midfielder.  Ricardo does this and we invariable score when he does.  Barnes and tete tend to cut inside.

Edited 16 April 2023 by foxinsocks

[StriderHiryu]

12 hours ago, StanSP said:

Good thread here... 

 

 

Yeah I've posted links from this guy before, he's brilliant. If we go to the Championship next season I hope he can continue his work, because it's much harder for foreign fans to get match footage.

 

But yes I highly endorse this guy, fantastic analysis. 

[An Sionnach]

The overriding problem we have is the lack of a commanding central striker. Its no use keep hoping that we can threaten PL defences without that. If we get relegated we will immediately need to find physicality up front. Europe's leading strikers are invariably big and powerful , that does not change in football. The difference Haarland's size and power makes cannot be overstated.

[StriderHiryu]

1 hour ago, An Sionnach said:

The overriding problem we have is the lack of a commanding central striker. Its no use keep hoping that we can threaten PL defences without that. If we get relegated we will immediately need to find physicality up front. Europe's leading strikers are invariably big and powerful , that does not change in football. The difference Haarland's size and power makes cannot be overstated.

I think that's a bit of an old fashioned take on the game, because in modern football there are multiple ways to score a lot of goals without having a traditional number 9. Man City won the title several times with no striker at all, playing a false 9, or with Sergio Aguero who was hardly a powerhouse of a striker. Klopp's peak Liverpool teams relied on Mo Salah and Sadio Mane for goals. We won the title with Jamie Vardy who was elite, but we used him on the break rather than to bully defences.

 

Across Europe:

- Arsenal play Gabriel Jesus, Eddie Nketiah or Trossard up top. All good or great players, but not commanding strikers. They rely on clever movement and incisive passing. 

- PSG who lead in France play Neymar, Mbappe and Messi. Hardly commanding central strikers.

- Bayern who lead the Bundesliga have Eric Choupo-Mouting up front (yes seriously)

- Benfica who lead in Portugal have Goncalo Ramos up top. He is 6 foot and decent physically, but he's no Drogba. Good player though!

- Napoli have Victor Oshimen up top. I would say in world football he is the closest to Haaland in terms of athleticism, strength and finishing. An elite player who certainly makes a difference. Scored a few times against us as we all know!

- Barcelona have Lewandowski up front. At his peak I think he was even better than Haaland, but not quite as good these days.

 

I do understand and agree with your point, because having a player like Ivan Toney on our team would make a huge difference. But it's not the be all and end all, and in the seasons we finished 5th, we scored a lot of goals. It is fair to say though that with Maddison and Barnes as top scorers, that our strikers have not been doing the business this time round, though a lot of that is down to the service they get.

 

This season the reason we have struggled so much IMO is that we let teams have way too many chances against us. Players like Ndidi and Ricardo used to have elite ball winning stats, Soyuncu was once one of the best CBs in the league, Schmeichel an imposing and influential figure at the back. How many clean sheets have we kept this season? Too many players on the decline, and the players we did bring in have not managed to replace or improve the ones that have. For the money invested in Soumare and Daka, they have not returned anything like what should be expected.

 

Rodgers said the team needed a major freshening up and he was correct. He massively underperformed with the squad he had at his disposal, but the underlying stats at the start of the season suggested Leicester had problems. It just turned out those problems were even bigger than we thought. 

 

[Glorious Leicester Fan]

38 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

I think that's a bit of an old fashioned take on the game, because in modern football there are multiple ways to score a lot of goals without having a traditional number 9. Man City won the title several times with no striker at all, playing a false 9, or with Sergio Aguero who was hardly a powerhouse of a striker. Klopp's peak Liverpool teams relied on Mo Salah and Sadio Mane for goals. We won the title with Jamie Vardy who was elite, but we used him on the break rather than to bully defences.

 

Across Europe:

- Arsenal play Gabriel Jesus, Eddie Nketiah or Trossard up top. All good or great players, but not commanding strikers. They rely on clever movement and incisive passing. 

- PSG who lead in France play Neymar, Mbappe and Messi. Hardly commanding central strikers.

- Bayern who lead the Bundesliga have Eric Choupo-Mouting up front (yes seriously)

- Benfica who lead in Portugal have Goncalo Ramos up top. He is 6 foot and decent physically, but he's no Drogba. Good player though!

- Napoli have Victor Oshimen up top. I would say in world football he is the closest to Haaland in terms of athleticism, strength and finishing. An elite player who certainly makes a difference. Scored a few times against us as we all know!

- Barcelona have Lewandowski up front. At his peak I think he was even better than Haaland, but not quite as good these days.

 

I do understand and agree with your point, because having a player like Ivan Toney on our team would make a huge difference. But it's not the be all and end all, and in the seasons we finished 5th, we scored a lot of goals. It is fair to say though that with Maddison and Barnes as top scorers, that our strikers have not been doing the business this time round, though a lot of that is down to the service they get.

 

This season the reason we have struggled so much IMO is that we let teams have way too many chances against us. Players like Ndidi and Ricardo used to have elite ball winning stats, Soyuncu was once one of the best CBs in the league, Schmeichel an imposing and influential figure at the back. How many clean sheets have we kept this season? Too many players on the decline, and the players we did bring in have not managed to replace or improve the ones that have. For the money invested in Soumare and Daka, they have not returned anything like what should be expected.

 

Rodgers said the team needed a major freshening up and he was correct. He massively underperformed with the squad he had at his disposal, but the underlying stats at the start of the season suggested Leicester had problems. It just turned out those problems were even bigger than we thought. 

 

I generally agree. If we get relegated, it’s because we’ve conceded far to many goals. 
 

You’re also correct in highlighting the decline in quality of our squad. Ironically, this arguably makes a target striker a useful option. It’s no coincidence that ‘lesser clubs’ tend to use Target strikers. They allow you play more defensive as a team. You may score less goals, but…..

 

What I find inexcusable about the last 18 months, is that Rodgers didn’t really change our style of play/tactics. He new that a few of our key  players were ageing/had serious injuries/near to end of their contract and that the replacements weren’t good enough. But generally kept things the same!!!!
 

 

 

 

[davieG]

We've scored 41 goals this season you have to look up to 10th placed Fulham to find a team with more, sure they've dried up lately but that's mainly down to our rock bottom confidence when we get chances. 

 

There's only 2 teams that have conceded more Notts F and Bournemouth, defending is pretty much the sole source of our dire situation.