Tactics Talk:

[messerschmitt]

Interested to know @StriderHiryuthoughts from yesterdays game. I was surprised Watford didn't seem to press at all so we had plenty of time with the ball at the back but didn't resort to passing it side to side. they sat back but we were still able to find forward passes. Why was this?

[StriderHiryu]

1 hour ago, messerschmitt said:

Interested to know @StriderHiryuthoughts from yesterdays game. I was surprised Watford didn't seem to press at all so we had plenty of time with the ball at the back but didn't resort to passing it side to side. they sat back but we were still able to find forward passes. Why was this?

Our front 4 was very dynamic, they definitely didn’t expect Lookman to play up front. At times we almost didn’t have a striker with everyone dropping so deep. That can sometimes lead to problems but Watford aren’t great defensively and followed their man leaving to spaces behind. Lookman was almost a false 9 which I don’t think was intentional but more because it’s his natural game. 
 

As a unit the forward players worked well. Even Perez dragged players out of positions several times and put a few good balls into the box. 
 

Also I don’t think the job that our U23/U21 coach should be underestimated! We might have changed the personnel but every player knew structurally where to stand and when to press. You probably didn’t notice Lewis Brunt or Marcal but I mean this in a positive way; they filled in amicably and meant we could play our natural game. This is so encouraging to see as teams like Ajax have used this academy -> first team coaching style to maximum effect over the years. 

[messerschmitt]

Thanks for your input, I was very impressed with the performance and never thought we were in much danger. It's a long time since I've thought that lol. Yes I agree Watford's defence didn't look good. I wonder if we could do that against a stronger team.

[Shane]

Not too many teams in the PL line up without a DM in midfield these days.. Just play Brunt if we have to 

 

Not sure how long we can get away with shoehorning Tielemans, KDH & Maddison into the team either. 

[davieG]

https://totalfootballanalysis.com/data-analysis/premier-league-2021-22-wolves-vs-leicester-post-match-data-viz-and-stats

 

Premier League 2021/22: Wolves vs Leicester – post-match data viz and stats

[StriderHiryu]

What did you all make of the way JJ was deployed tonight? At times he was RCB, at times RB and at times a centre forward! He was doing that sort of thing in a back 3 before he got injured, but it's a very interesting role to play, and Rennes simply did not know how to handle him.

[Lcfc-1992]

Just now, StriderHiryu said:

What did you all make of the way JJ was deployed tonight? At times he was RCB, at times RB and at times a centre forward! He was doing that sort of thing in a back 3 before he got injured, but it's a very interesting role to play, and Rennes simply did not know how to handle him.

Noticed Thomas did the same thing during the second half with KDH dropping to left back

[Lesta2014]

Was clear we wanted to get their back 4 turning, not seen soyuncu with so many long passes with a plan for ages! 
 

justin created room for youri to get on the ball tonight, interesting where he was going off the ball. 
 

fofana comes back and we see return of 352?

[StriderHiryu]

5 minutes ago, Lesta2014 said:

Was clear we wanted to get their back 4 turning, not seen soyuncu with so many long passes with a plan for ages! 
 

justin created room for youri to get on the ball tonight, interesting where he was going off the ball. 
 

fofana comes back and we see return of 352?

We've tried 343 a few times this season. I could see that being used more than 352 as with Vardy out I don't think we play Daka and Nacho up top.

 

But KDH / Tielemans / Ndidi in the midfield 3 seem solid at the moment.

[Fox in the North]

Partnerships are starting to form. KDH/Ndidi/Tielemans. Barnes/Thomas. Amartey/Soyuncu. It certainly seems that we’re starting to find the collective balance in team.Fingers crossed it is!

[StriderHiryu]

58 minutes ago, Fox in the North said:

Partnerships are starting to form. KDH/Ndidi/Tielemans. Barnes/Thomas. Amartey/Soyuncu. It certainly seems that we’re starting to find the collective balance in team.Fingers crossed it is!

100% this is why we've found form. Consistency within the team and a settled lineup / formation.

 

Some players could be considered unlucky not to get in, e.g. Lookman and Nacho, but the sum of our parts is greater than the total at the moment. Starting to be able to control games, corners don't worry me any more, playing nicely though the lines too.

[Foxes96]

1 hour ago, StriderHiryu said:

What did you all make of the way JJ was deployed tonight? At times he was RCB, at times RB and at times a centre forward! He was doing that sort of thing in a back 3 before he got injured, but it's a very interesting role to play, and Rennes simply did not know how to handle him.

Was really interesting. In my view it helps with a couple of things.
 

Albrighton, a legend as he is, is not blessed with great pace, but is solid defensively for a winger. Therefore, Justin being allowed to run past him meant that we had more of an outlet wide on the right with real pace similar to Barnes on the left. 
 

It also meant that Youri could drop into that little pocket at RB to collect the ball. And notably when he started getting on the ball more is when we wrestled back control of the match. 
 

And for JJ, it works because he has great athleticism and a great engine, so if he gets caught upfield it’s a lot quicker for him to get back into shape than say Youri or Marc because of his pace. 
 

Overall think it meant we were able to utilise the best attributes of those 3 players on that side of the pitch and meant we were a better more cohesive unit both in and out of possession.
 

Only slight drawback on that side of the pitch was that Justin seemed to press the fullback/ step into the middle leaving an overlap on occasion, so maybe something they will need to work on slightly ie. Needing Marc to follow the runner more proactively, or JJ holding his position a little more if Marc is caught further up field. But overall really promising and provides great balance, with the already affective unit of home grown players on the left hand side of the pitch 

 

 

[Aleksz]

Yeah I noticed that little rotation too in possession in the second half, Tielemans would drop back along side Amartey and Justin would advance ahead into the space ahead - same with Thomas and KDH on the other side.

[Stadt]

 

Was watching bits of the Arsenal game back and this was a common occurrence. Look at the space ahead of KDH and he doesn't really have any realistic passing options, Iheanacho is trying to get in behind but the pass wasn't on. Barnes is too wide, Maddison and Albrighton are too far away. We're just quite badly structured in possession at the moment.  

 

The aggregate score of our last 5 league (no xG data for the ECL) games has been 6-6 and the xG vs xGA has been 5.2 vs 6.5. We've become quite a flat team which with our talent is really disappointing.

[sacreblueits442]

36 minutes ago, Stadt said:

 

Was watching bits of the Arsenal game back and this was a common occurrence. Look at the space ahead of KDH and he doesn't really have any realistic passing options, Iheanacho is trying to get in behind but the pass wasn't on. Barnes is too wide, Maddison and Albrighton are too far away. We're just quite badly structured in possession at the moment.  

 

The aggregate score of our last 5 league (no xG data for the ECL) games has been 6-6 and the xG vs xGA has been 5.2 vs 6.5. We've become quite a flat team which with our talent is really disappointing.

....do you notice, even in that situation the referee is closing down a passing lane, he might as well have a red jersey on!!!

Seriously though, looking at that, the pass to Barnes was on, his marker was dropping off, so perhaps a one-two, or Barnes taking the ball down the line. What was actually required would have been a goal hungry player who would bust a gut to get up and around the box, screaming for a pass, but as stated before we are a passive team.

  Rodgers sees a highline to the answer for how best we can use our quality players and winning balls higher up the pitch with more of our attacking players forward being what he aims to recreate. Our backline being what it is now, does not afford us to do this and we should have found a way to play in the interim, before the return to full fitness of the first team backline.

[BKLFox]

31 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

....do you notice, even in that situation the referee is closing down a passing lane, he might as well have a red jersey on!!!

Seriously though, looking at that, the pass to Barnes was on, his marker was dropping off, so perhaps a one-two, or Barnes taking the ball down the line. What was actually required would have been a goal hungry player who would bust a gut to get up and around the box, screaming for a pass, but as stated before we are a passive team.

  Rodgers sees a highline to the answer for how best we can use our quality players and winning balls higher up the pitch with more of our attacking players forward being what he aims to recreate. Our backline being what it is now, does not afford us to do this and we should have found a way to play in the interim, before the return to full fitness of the first team backline.

That's a noteworthy spot as i've lost count of the amount of times in our recent games where i've said out loud get out the bloody way ref, seems to be happening more & more, whether refs have been told to run different lines now, they used to just run the diagonal at the furthest point to the linesman but face in towards them, they seem to be trying to be Rugby officials now & are on top of the ball.

Edited 15 March 2022 by BKLFox

[st albans fox]

2 hours ago, Stadt said:

Was watching bits of the Arsenal game back and this was a common occurrence. Look at the space ahead of KDH and he doesn't really have any realistic passing options, Iheanacho is trying to get in behind but the pass wasn't on. Barnes is too wide, Maddison and Albrighton are too far away. We're just quite badly structured in possession at the moment.  

 

The aggregate score of our last 5 league (no xG data for the ECL) games has been 6-6 and the xG vs xGA has been 5.2 vs 6.5. We've become quite a flat team which with our talent is really disappointing.

I think it’s become clear in our last few games that rodgers has decided the defence is now strong/solid enough for us to try and keep clean sheets and nick a 1-0 win.   That hasn’t been the case for a few months where we’ve attempted to outscore the opposition in an open game - yes, honestly! 

Edited 15 March 2022 by st albans fox

[Stadt]

23 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

I think it’s become clear in our last few games that rodgers has decided the defence is now strong/solid enough for us to try and keep clean sheets and nick a 1-0 win.   That hasn’t been the case for a few months where we’ve attempted to outscore the opposition in an open game - yes, honestly! 

We're still unreliable at the back as the Leeds game showed. Being much less aggressive at the cost of blunting our attack isn't the trade off we should have to make

[moore_94]

New set piece coach or has Brendan been watching corner tactics on Youtube?

 

Very interesting setup from corners today with the 3 attacking players all staying at the half way line and then every player man to man in the box

[CloudFox]

6 minutes ago, moore_94 said:

New set piece coach or has Brendan been watching corner tactics on Youtube?

 

Very interesting setup from corners today with the 3 attacking players all staying at the half way line and then every player man to man in the box

Interesting! That reminds me a bit of under Ranieri (or was it Sven?), when we were told we kept two forwards up because having them all back actually didn't make a tangible difference to defending the set piece. It did, however, provide an outlet and mean the opposition was less willing to commit bodies forward in case we broke on them.

Edited 20 March 2022 by CloudFox

[majaco]

I love it when we counter attack after a corner.

 

In 15/16 , I saw defending a corner as an exciting opportunity 

[Foxes96]

55 minutes ago, CloudFox said:

Interesting! That reminds me a bit of under Ranieri (or was it Sven?), when we were told we kept two forwards up because having them all back actually didn't make a tangible difference to defending the set piece. It did, however, provide an outlet and mean the opposition was less willing to commit bodies forward in case we broke on them.

Ranieri. 
 

Teams were terrified with Vardy and Mahrez waiting on the half way line with acres of space to wreak havoc. 

[StriderHiryu]

1 hour ago, moore_94 said:

New set piece coach or has Brendan been watching corner tactics on Youtube?

 

Very interesting setup from corners today with the 3 attacking players all staying at the half way line and then every player man to man in the box

Brendan reads Foxes Talk confirmed. No wonder there are so many pro Rodgers posts in his own thread

[st albans fox]

1 hour ago, moore_94 said:

New set piece coach or has Brendan been watching corner tactics on Youtube?

 

Very interesting setup from corners today with the 3 attacking players all staying at the half way line and then every player man to man in the box

I’m not convinced by this tactic of three

If you have no one up then the opposition leave one back. 

if you leave one man up the opposition have two back to cover. 

hence you are one man ahead in the box by leaving one up top 

 

if you leave two up top then the opposition will surely leave three back - hence you are still one man better off in the box 

 

we left three up and they decided that three to cover was enough - hence we are no better off in our box , man for man, than if we left one up????

 

I assume clearing out the box is supposed to make it easier for kasper to come and punch - forgive me but I see a huge issue there !

 

and more importantly, when the corner comes in and is half cleared , the three guys just hang around on the half way line !!!! FFS, at least two of them, need to sprint back to help out. It was like we developed the tactic but didn’t have time to work out what happens after the corner has come in !

 

if we are going to do this, then please let’s have two up and not three - the third player can take the front post or the edge of the box 

[Foxes96]

49 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

I’m not convinced by this tactic of three

If you have no one up then the opposition leave one back. 

if you leave one man up the opposition have two back to cover. 

hence you are one man ahead in the box by leaving one up top 

 

if you leave two up top then the opposition will surely leave three back - hence you are still one man better off in the box 

 

we left three up and they decided that three to cover was enough - hence we are no better off in our box , man for man, than if we left one up????

 

I assume clearing out the box is supposed to make it easier for kasper to come and punch - forgive me but I see a huge issue there !

 

and more importantly, when the corner comes in and is half cleared , the three guys just hang around on the half way line !!!! FFS, at least two of them, need to sprint back to help out. It was like we developed the tactic but didn’t have time to work out what happens after the corner has come in !

 

if we are going to do this, then please let’s have two up and not three - the third player can take the front post or the edge of the box 

Agreed. The beauty of it in 15/16 was that Vardy and Mahrez were split as well which meant they had to leave 3 back to cover both players and the gaping whole in the middle of the pitch or risk being exploited. Also Mahrez probably couldn’t win a header against Mendy so was of little use defending a set piece any how, but could beat a man with skill easily. 

So was good to see the tactic in use again, but would prefer to see just the 2 players kept up, split, so the opposition have to leave 3 back and possibly the third player could be in between our box and the half way line in case it’s half cleared…