Starmer Next Labour Leader

[Bilo]

An early election is pie-in-the-sky stuff. Just not going to happen. 

 

They'll want time for memories of this shitshow to begin to fade, and the damage wrought by Brexit to begin to heal itself. Could you imagine a wounded, discredited Johnson leading his party into an election amid economic collapse and a damning public enquiry pointing out they'd caused the deaths of tens of thousands through sheer ineptitude? I'd fancy Corbyn's chances against that, never mind Starmer's. 😂

[Jon the Hat]

1 minute ago, Bilo said:

An early election is pie-in-the-sky stuff. Just not going to happen. 

 

They'll want time for memories of this shitshow to begin to fade, and the damage wrought by Brexit to begin to heal itself. Could you imagine a wounded, discredited Johnson leading his party into an election amid economic collapse and a damning public enquiry pointing out they'd caused the deaths of tens of thousands through sheer ineptitude? I'd fancy Corbyn's chances against that, never mind Starmer's. 😂

That isn't going to happen.  Once this is all over the UK will have done no better or worse than most countries in terms of deaths per head.  We will have done a remarkable job of propping up the economy, and the decisions to open up the country will go fine.

[Lionator]

1 hour ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

Boris always struggles on his own, don't think this will ever change. He relies on his cabinet and experts a lot.

 

EDIT: Starmer is much better than Corbyn, that's the main thing, at least there's some form of pressure on the Governemnt now!

The problem with Boris is that he's lazy and he's always gotten away with it. He's clearly an intelligent, capable man however there's multiple accounts of his time as London Mayor, Foreign Secretary etc turning up to important meetings having done absolutely zero preparation and essentially winging it, that wont work against Starmer within a PMQ context.

[Bilo]

17 minutes ago, Mike Oxlong said:

Haven’t seen that and I would need to see the quoted passage in context before forming my own conclusion but regardless it’s a marker to say we’re going to look carefully at what you say which is something Corbyn never did. The No 10 response may be because Starmer has Boris bang to rights. If so I’d expect him to follow up. Once you have someone by the balls don’t stop squeezing till you get what you want. 

 

Edit - Part of the number 10 response is as follows “ in his letter the leader of the opposition concedes that he has not quoted accurately from the guidance”.
 

Is that referring to the same letter that @Voll Blau posted because I don’t see that concession myself 

Not sure that's going to wash from No. 10 if we're honest - nobody's going to buy the idea of a barrister of his standing sending a public letter like that without being up on the detail. 

 

As you rightly say, it's akin to the squeal of someone asking a school bully to let go of their bollocks. 

[leicsmac]

6 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

That isn't going to happen.  Once this is all over the UK will have done no better or worse than most countries in terms of deaths per head.  We will have done a remarkable job of propping up the economy, and the decisions to open up the country will go fine.

I'm not going to comment much on this discussion but that particular line sounds incredibly optimistic to the point of being unrealistic when you compare the current UK stats with a lot of other leading nations, particularly ones directly comparable in terms of population.

 

I think it would take a pretty drastic aftermath over here to bring Korea's toll of death and general suffering to the same level as that of the UK right now, for instance - you might add Germany and Japan among others to that list, too.

Edited 13 May 2020 by leicsmac

[Bilo]

16 minutes ago, MattP said:

He's the Prime Minister

 

He's not going to carry on in politics after he leaves this position I very much doubt anyway, can you really see him as a obedient backbencher like May?

 

He's reached the peak of his profession and achieved what he had to do - his only decision now will be whether to stand in 2024 or hand over to Sunak (which I think he might do if he has made a success of the economic recovery).

 

Whenever he decides to call time I'd imagine he will go back to writing/journalism etc - I'd be amazed if he had a desire to continue in politics.

Depends on how it ends.

 

All political careers have to - it's just whether it's to a standing ovation in Parliament or crying in the back of a Jaguar. 

 

It seems highly unlikely that Johnson's taking the Blair route. 

[Guest MattP]

7 minutes ago, Bilo said:

An early election is pie-in-the-sky stuff. Just not going to happen. 

 

They'll want time for memories of this shitshow to begin to fade, and the damage wrought by Brexit to begin to heal itself. Could you imagine a wounded, discredited Johnson leading his party into an election amid economic collapse and a damning public enquiry pointing out they'd caused the deaths of tens of thousands through sheer ineptitude? I'd fancy Corbyn's chances against that, never mind Starmer's. 😂

Even in this unlikely scenario, do you not think people will notice that the Labour would have done the same? The reason Starmer won't go after him on the delayed lockdown is because Kier was touring and doing public events while Cheltenham was on, and if a man who wanted to make John McDonnell chancellor wants to have a go on economics then let him.

 

In all reality Coronavirus will be long gone by 2022, let alone 2024 - I wouldn't like to guess what the issues will be for a General Election in five years time.

[CosbehFox]

K'ing hell fire judging from comments you'd think it wasn't a good thing that we have parliamentary democracy being pushed by the opposition. 

 

Even if you were a Tory it should be viewed as good thing to improve the democracy/strength of the country. Not easy 3-0 win, three points in the bank kinda of attitude. The goal of any British citizen with an interest in politics is to improve the country for the better

Edited 13 May 2020 by Cardiff_Fox

[Lionator]

28 minutes ago, MattP said:

Sorry but I just can't see any of this happening, even if all that apocalypse occurred Boris would go quietly anyway, he'd have no intention of hanging around to be humiliated in a General Election.

 

But his party currently sits on 50% during a pandemic and his voting base is delighted, in addition to that the decision to leave the EU now looks perfectly timed given they'll most probably be a demand for more local supply chains after all this blows over, not to mention the EU itself could be in tatters.

 

I know a lot of Labour voters are excited at the minute but it's bordering on a little bit of insanity at the minute.

I think that this is because in the past week, for the first time in 10 years we can actually see a path to power whether it takes 4 or even 9 years. 

 

It's telling that the biggest critics of Starmer so far have been the Owen Jones and Ash Sarker's of this world. The PR has also been a complete step up from before (that's not hard I know). The next key post pandemic step will be connecting outside of the political bubble. From within it we can see that he's clearly very capable but that'll mean nothing if he can't connect further afield. 80 seats is a lot however if the Tories get the post pandemic reaction wrong and hit the bottom of society hardest, then those hard won traditionally working class seats are back up in the air.

 

There's lots of if's and but's however KS can't really have done much more than he has in his first month and a half.  

[leicsmac]

2 minutes ago, MattP said:

Even in this unlikely scenario, do you not think people will notice that the Labour would have done the same? The reason Starmer won't go after him on the delayed lockdown is because Kier was touring and doing public events while Cheltenham was on, and if a man who wanted to make John McDonnell chancellor wants to have a go on economics then let him.

 

In all reality Coronavirus will be long gone by 2022, let alone 2024 - I wouldn't like to guess what the issues will be for a General Election in five years time.

One of 'em will be maintaining friendly relations with President Warren after Biden gets 25th'd due to decreasing mental faculties.

[Guest MattP]

4 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

I'm not going to comment much on this discussion but that particular line sounds incredibly optimistic to the point of being unrealistic when you compare the current UK stats with a lot of other leading nations, particularly ones directly comparable in terms of population.

 

I think it would take a pretty drastic aftermath over here to bring Korea's toll of death and general suffering to the same level as that of the UK right now, for instance - you might add Germany and Japan among others to that list, too.

Comparing us to Japan and Korea is ludicrous though, in reality the only direct comparison to us in France and there isn't THAT much difference in our total.

 

By per head of population we've done better than countries like Belgium and Holland.

 

But it's not a competition anyway.

 

2 minutes ago, Bilo said:

Depends on how it ends.

 

All political careers have to - it's just whether it's to a standing ovation in Parliament or crying in the back of a Jaguar. 

 

It seems highly unlikely that Johnson's taking the Blair route. 

Does it? He's currently 20pts ahead in the polls in the middle of a pandemic and the opposition leader is a bloke who will struggle to connect with anyone outside the M25.

 

I think yet again your optimism is clouding reality here, as it has with Brexit, Boris and Trump previously when it comes to the electorate.

[Bilo]

3 minutes ago, MattP said:

Even in this unlikely scenario, do you not think people will notice that the Labour would have done the same? The reason Starmer won't go after him on the delayed lockdown is because Kier was touring and doing public events while Cheltenham was on, and if a man who wanted to make John McDonnell chancellor wants to have a go on economics then let him.

 

In all reality Coronavirus will be long gone by 2022, let alone 2024 - I wouldn't like to guess what the issues will be for a General Election in five years time.

That's the point I made - they'll want to go to 2024 either to give Johnson a chance to get to a point where his lazy bluster becomes fashionable again, or to give his replacement a chance to repair the damage in case it doesn't. 

 

'Labour would have done the same' isn't a hypothetical that's going to wash with the public as simply invites Labour to come up with hindsight driven outlines of 'we'd have done A, B and C.'

[leicsmac]

3 minutes ago, MattP said:

Comparing us to Japan and Korea is ludicrous though, in reality the only direct comparison to us in France and there isn't THAT much difference in our total.

 

By per head of population we've done better than countries like Belgium and Holland.

 

But it's not a competition anyway.

 

 

Why is it ludicrous? Jon said "compared to most countries" and with that criterion i was even so accommodating as to not put forward truly egregious examples like New Zealand as an example of "most countries". Comparisons with Germany,, Korea and Japan in terms of population and developmental level of country, among others, are as valid as ones with France, the US and Spain by the criteria given.

[CosbehFox]

9 minutes ago, MattP said:

and the opposition leader is a bloke who will struggle to connect with anyone outside the M25.

Far too early to say. He's already been willing to dabble into very public patriotism which Corbyn wouldn't touch. 

 

Plenty of 'metropolitan' folk in Tory ranks with wide backgrounds won seats in areas of the country who wouldn't associate with them. Never envisaged the day Wakefield been led by an ex-United Nations employee. 

 

Still say part of Corbyn's failure was as simple as the way he dresses. 

Edited 13 May 2020 by Cardiff_Fox

[Bilo]

8 minutes ago, MattP said:

Comparing us to Japan and Korea is ludicrous though, in reality the only direct comparison to us in France and there isn't THAT much difference in our total.

 

By per head of population we've done better than countries like Belgium and Holland.

 

But it's not a competition anyway.

 

Does it? He's currently 20pts ahead in the polls in the middle of a pandemic and the opposition leader is a bloke who will struggle to connect with anyone outside the M25.

 

I think yet again your optimism is clouding reality here, as it has with Brexit, Boris and Trump previously when it comes to the electorate.

With his personal ratings falling, backbenchers getting restless, loyal Tory press getting increasingly critical and the LOTO bagging positive ratings from every demographic, including Brexiters. 

[Bilo]

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/keir-starmer-approval-rating-boris-johnson-first-time-a4438786.html

 

Looks as though he's clicking with the public. 

[CosbehFox]

4 minutes ago, Bilo said:

With his personal ratings falling, backbenchers getting restless, loyal Tory press getting increasingly critical and the LOTO bagging positive ratings from every demographic, including Brexiters. 

The rate Boris goes through sexual liaisons - wouldn't be surprised if that's sort of scandal which catches him 

[Bilo]

1 minute ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

The rate Boris goes through sexual liaisons - wouldn't be surprised if that's sort of scandal which catches him 

Well, we know he's into masochism because he keeps turning up to PMQs. 

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/05/13/keir-starmer-took-boris-johnson-apart-like-duplo-train-set/

[Mike Oxlong]

12 minutes ago, MattP said:

Comparing us to Japan and Korea is ludicrous though, in reality the only direct comparison to us in France and there isn't THAT much difference in our total.

 

By per head of population we've done better than countries like Belgium and Holland.

 

But it's not a competition anyway.

 

Does it? He's currently 20pts ahead in the polls in the middle of a pandemic and the opposition leader is a bloke who will struggle to connect with anyone outside the M25.

 

I think yet again your optimism is clouding reality here, as it has with Brexit, Boris and Trump previously when it comes to the electorate.

This is often expressed as a given as if the Labour leader needs to have a flat cap and a coal blackened face to be electable. The last posh boy barrister who led that party was their most successful leader at the polls for generations. 

[Bilo]

3 minutes ago, Mike Oxlong said:

This is often expressed as a given as if the Labour leader needs to have a flat cap and a coal blackened face to be electable. The last posh boy barrister who led that party was their most successful leader at the polls for generations. 

It's surreal that, in a country where an Old Etonian with de Pfeffel as a middle name just won a landslide majority driven by working-class votes, a barrister who grew up in a North London semi is declared to be unrelatable because he built a successful law career for himself. 

[Guest Markyblue]

23 minutes ago, Bilo said:

That's the point I made - they'll want to go to 2024 either to give Johnson a chance to get to a point where his lazy bluster becomes fashionable again, or to give his replacement a chance to repair the damage in case it doesn't. 

 

'Labour would have done the same' isn't a hypothetical that's going to wash with the public as simply invites Labour to come up with hindsight driven outlines of 'we'd have done A, B and C.'

They'll want to go to 2024, really is that because they have been elected by a huge majority for that exact reason.

[Bilo]

1 minute ago, Markyblue said:

They'll want to go to 2024, really is that because they have been elected by a huge majority for that exact reason.

They could call an early election if they chose - like in 2017 and 2019 - but they won't. Because it would be suicide. 

[Guest Markyblue]

Just now, Bilo said:

They could call an early election if they chose - like in 2017 and 2019 - but they won't. Because it would be suicide. 

Yea right cause it would.🤣

[Bilo]

3 minutes ago, Markyblue said:

Yea right cause it would.🤣

Hush now, the grownups are talking.

[Guest Markyblue]

Just now, Bilo said:

Hush now, the grownups are talking.

You really have to escape your delusional left wing bubble and smell reality,  have a nice day jc.