Coronavirus Thread

[foxile5]

33 minutes ago, Nuneatonfox in Manchester said:

Had a big day/night out planned with mates for tomorrow, it was supposed to be the first night out, with the weather being nice presumably pubs will still serve groups on outdoor tables?

But honestly I’m so over this, I know people have suffered but we can’t just keep going like this.... locking down then opening again then closing again, It’s no way to live.

The real piss boiler is you've been patient and done things the right way and the current government have been doing exactly as they ****ing please the whole time. 

 

Go out and test your eyes. Works for tory employees. 

[z-layrex]

46 minutes ago, Nuneatonfox in Manchester said:

Had a big day/night out planned with mates for tomorrow, it was supposed to be the first night out, with the weather being nice presumably pubs will still serve groups on outdoor tables?

But honestly I’m so over this, I know people have suffered but we can’t just keep going like this.... locking down then opening again then closing again, It’s no way to live.

You might be over it, but the virus isn't. So I suggest you and the rest of the public suck it up because this winter could be even worse. Jesus it's hardly WW2 is it.

[Sampson]

 

 

2 hours ago, z-layrex said:

You might be over it, but the virus isn't. So I suggest you and the rest of the public suck it up because this winter could be even worse. Jesus it's hardly WW2 is it.

Spot on.

 

Some people have got scarily complacent to the dangers out there right now. 

 

The government screwed up the early parts of thos outbreak, but they absolutely should be removing privileges at the first signs of local outbreaks asap. Isn't this what we've all been asking for for months? And now people moan they're actually doing it?

 

Read some of MPH's posts over the past few weeks if you want a real dose of what a "mild" case which doesnt even require hospitalization.

 

Don't get how anyone can even think of arranging big nights out with their friends of multiple households in the first place right now.

 

People are moaning, but we could be in for a very dark, very long winter if we don't stamp it out at first sight.

Edited 31 July 2020 by Sampson

[Ian Nacho]

2 hours ago, Nod.E said:

You have to laugh at the London-bubbled-Government casually announcing a 'local lockdown' and listing 'Greater Manchester' alongside towns like Blackburn and Rossendale.

 

It's a whole fvcking county covering multiple cities and over 3 million people, and you just dropped it on a list and announced it at 9:30 on a Thursday night you bloody cretins.

 

This is the Covid equivalent of small print in a dodgy loan contract.

 

It'll get all the respect of a do not tumble dry label.

 

And I mean, good. Kind of. Lockdowns at this point are completely unnecessary so good, I'm glad it won't be followed. I just hate the way that they're misleading everyone by being 'seen to be' taking action. It shuts up those whining saying they're not doing enough while also putting them in a position to blame the plebs if things get ugly.

 

Also, you can meet your family if it's at a restaurant but not if it's in your house? Make sense of that one. It's just an absolute sh*t show this whole episode isn't it. 

Spot on. 

[Ian Nacho]

The communication from this government has been nothing short of a sh*t show. So people are prohibited from meeting other households indoors, which includes private gardens. Two words there, indoors and gardens. And they wonder why people get confused. You would have thought they would have learnt for the communication fiasco with Leicester, announcing measures late at night with no clarity, but evidently not. 

[Guest Fktf]

7 minutes ago, z-layrex said:

You might be over it, but the virus isn't. So I suggest you and the rest of the public suck it up because this winter could be even worse. Jesus it's hardly WW2 is it.

Indeed. For the people who think tightening and easing local restrictions in response to case rates is 'no way to live', remember that for some people total lockdown it is the only way live.

[Sampson]

Just now, Ian Nacho said:

The communication from this government has been nothing short of a sh*t show. So people are prohibited from meeting other households indoors, which includes private gardens. Two words there, indoors and gardens. And they wonder why people get confused. You would have thought they would have learnt for the communication fiasco with Leicester, announcing measures late at night with no clarity, but evidently not. 

You really think the 2 words of household and garden are confusing? 

 

Just sounds like selfish people trying to get create excuses to get round pretty simple instructions by claiming they're confusing to me.

[Nuneatonfox in Manchester]

13 minutes ago, z-layrex said:

You might be over it, but the virus isn't. So I suggest you and the rest of the public suck it up because this winter could be even worse. Jesus it's hardly WW2 is it.

I’ve sucked it up for 4 months

Easy to say if your livelihood and mortgage doesn’t depend on face to face public interactions!  
 

 

[Nod.E]

2 minutes ago, Fktf said:

Indeed. For the people who think tightening and easing local restrictions in response to case rates is 'no way to live', remember that for some people total lockdown it is the only way live.

By that logic, let's not go out in the sun as it risks skin cancer. For some people (with xeroderma pigmentosum), it's their only way to live.

[Sampson]

2 minutes ago, Nod.E said:

By that logic, let's not go out in the sun as it risks skin cancer. For some people (with xeroderma pigmentosum), it's their only way to live.

Not by that logic though is it.

 

Skin cancer isn't contagious through the population.

 

You've had an absolute mare there.

Edited 30 July 2020 by Sampson

[Guest Fktf]

3 minutes ago, Nod.E said:

By that logic, let's not go out in the sun as it risks skin cancer. For some people (with xeroderma pigmentosum), it's their only way to live.

No. Because if you get cancer going out in the sun too much, you're not going to pass it on to someone else.

Edited 30 July 2020 by Fktf

[Nod.E]

1 hour ago, Sampson said:

Not by that logic though is it.

 

Skin cancer isn't contagious through the population.

 

You've had an absolute mare there.

Whoooosh.

 

The logic that we should refrain from doing something just because others do.

Edited 31 July 2020 by Nod.E

[Guest Fktf]

Not at all what I was advocating, so it's a bit of a moot point.

[Nod.E]

Just now, Fktf said:

Not at all what I was advocating, so it's a bit of a moot point.

Exactly. Moot point, so why did you make it?

[Guest Fktf]

3 minutes ago, Nod.E said:

Exactly. Moot point, so why did you make it?

Just to irritate you. Worked.

[Nod.E]

1 minute ago, Fktf said:

Just to irritate you. Worked.

So we've established you're contributing nothing of worth then. Good.

[Guest Fktf]

1 minute ago, Nod.E said:

So we've established you're contributing nothing of worth then. Good.

Yeah, who needs all these sciencey people anyways...

[Nod.E]

25 minutes ago, Fktf said:

Yeah, who needs all these sciencey people anyways...

Science has told us for years and years that eating healthily reduces obesity which is the root cause of pretty much every big killer we have.

 

It's one thing to understand the science and another to apply it.

 

Ask yourself why we are, all of a sudden, hell-bent on applying the science for something which, even as the worst affected country in Europe, has only contributed to the death of a tiny fraction of the population? DESPITE it evidently having been running rampant, by some estimates since as early as December. And, a fraction which would be considerably smaller if the deaths were properly attributed. And by the way, a fraction which pales into insignificance against the combined deaths every single year caused by obesity. It has to be a numbers game. Unfortunately, it's not. It's a press/trend management game.

 

If you're so into using your science for good, get a ban on McDonald's. Use it to rally for more affordable health foods. Y'know, something that will actually have wide reaching implications to the health and survival of the population, all without having to grind its economy to a screeching halt, ruining lives in the process.

 

By all means, keep working from home and social distancing to keep a lid on things until a vaccine is available. Face masks? Why the hell not. But all this panic and disruption? Not worth it and ironically will cause more suffering and harm in the long run than it will save in the short term.

 

All we're seeing is a government reacting to cries for them to do more because they know it's the popular thing to do. It's the action which has the most chance of keeping them in power. There's a problem when 'doing the right thing' stops being the objective, and instead becomes 'doing the thing that will most likely keep us in power'. 

 

As a country and in fact generally speaking as a species we continue to sh*t the bed over this virus. Reasonable measures to avoid an explosion of cases? Fine. Lockdowns? Not fine.

Edited 30 July 2020 by Nod.E

[hejammy]

Could someone please explain to me why Oadby and Wigston (despite having comparatively high numbers all throughout the local lockdown) have been released from lockdown but some areas who have had less in Leicester are still in? How does this make sense? Or is not now actually a possibility that it is a political move (Oadby and Wigston having a Conservative MP)? 

[Nod.E]

Even if you disagree with my views, you have to admit that the following is a farce:

 

You cannot have other households in your house.

 

You cannot meet other households in pubs/restaurants, although this is only 'guidance'.

 

You can go to pubs/restaurants with your household, although intrinsically there will be other households present at pubs/restaurants, even if you're not 'with' them.

 

I mean wow. I've gone through all the emotions tonight but after that 'clarity' it's ending on a humorous note.

 

EDIT: should note, if you're in Greater Manchester as I am.

Edited 30 July 2020 by Nod.E

[Sampson]

Wow. No offense Nod.E, but you've not even locked down. You've just been told you can't meet more than one friend in the pub or in the garden and that's it. It might only last a couple of weeks just to get it down again.

 

And it's to try and stop an objectively rising trend (even with social distancing and masks currently in play our daily cases are continuing to rise) so it doesnt get too high so that we have to lockdown again over the winter if the NHS gets swamped again as @z-layrex and @Parafox will more than attest it did do in March. Which will lead to potentially 50,000 more excess cancer deaths alone as hospitals had to turn everything into a covid ward and couldn't even give essential care to people with serious long term diseases. Not to mention the pain of arthritis sufferers or people needing joint surgery now having to live months in seeing pain as their operations got put back during to the overwhelming nature of covid back in March.

 

All of which could very very easily happen again over the winter if we don't try and nip any rise in cases into the bud.

 

And you're acting like someone's trapped you in solitary confinement in a prison cell for no reason or something.

 

Talk about throwing the toys out the pram.

[Nod.E]

8 minutes ago, Sampson said:

Wow. No offense Nod.E, but you've not even locked down. You've just been told you can't meet more than one friend in the pub or in the garden and that's it. It might only last a couple of weeks just to get it down again.

 

And it's to try and stop an objectively rising trend (even with social distancing and masks currently in play our daily cases are continuing to rise) so it doesnt get too high so that we have to lockdown again over the winter if the NHS gets swamped again as @z-layrex and @Parafox will more than attest it did do in March. Which will lead to potentially 50,000 more excess cancer deaths alone as hospitals had to turn everything into a covid ward and couldn't even give essential care to people with serious long term diseases. Not to mention the pain of arthritis sufferers or people needing joint surgery now having to live months in seeing pain as their operations got put back during to the overwhelming nature of covid back in March.

 

All of which could very very easily happen again over the winter if we don't try and nip any rise in cases into the bud.

 

And you're acting like someone's trapped you in solitary confinement in a prison cell for no reason or something.

 

Talk about throwing the toys out the pram.

Did you miss the part where I said we should keep things like distancing, masks, WFH? All for the very purpose of avoiding the situation you're talking about there with full wards.

 

Also, using my own grandparents as an example, the fearmongering approach you seem to align with has done more to ensure people miss cancer/arthritis/other appointments than full beds. They simply will not leave the house for pure fear. 

 

My anger isn't because I'm in confinement. Nothing really changes for me, especially as the hospitality rules are 'guidance'. My anger is at the stupidity of it all. Stupidity angers me. Who's to say the *slightly* increasing numbers aren't purely because of a successful track and trace policy? It's possible with the increases being as small as they are.

 

And the insulting London bias. That gets my back up as well.

[Guest Fktf]

24 minutes ago, Nod.E said:

Science has told us for years and years that eating healthily reduces obesity which is the root cause of pretty much every big killer we have.

 

It's one thing to understand the science and another to apply it.

 

Ask yourself why we are, all of a sudden, hell-bent on applying the science for something which, even as the worst affected country in Europe, has only contributed to the death of a tiny fraction of the population? DESPITE it evidently having been running rampant, by some estimates since as early as December. And, a fraction which would be considerably smaller if the deaths were properly attributed. And by the way, a fraction which pales into insignificance against the combined deaths every single year caused by obesity. It has to be a numbers game. Unfortunately, it's not. It's a press/trend management game.

 

If you're so into using your science for good, get a ban on McDonald's. Use it to rally for more affordable health foods. Y'know, something that will actually have wide reaching implications to the health and survival of the population, all without having to grind its economy to a screeching halt, ruining lives in the process.

 

By all means, keep working from home and social distancing to keep a lid on things until a vaccine is available. Face masks? Why the hell not. But all this panic and disruption? Not worth it and ironically will cause more suffering and harm in the long run than it will save in the short term.

 

All we're seeing is a government reacting to cries for them to do more because they know it's the popular thing to do. It's the action which has the most chance of keeping them in power. There's a problem when 'doing the right thing' stops being the objective, and instead becomes 'doing the thing that will most likely keep us in power'. 

 

As a country and in fact generally speaking as a species we continue to sh*t the bed over this virus. Reasonable measures to avoid an explosion of cases? Fine. Lockdowns? Not fine.

Gosh, there's a lot here. I'd say it is one thing to understand science, and another to be able to apply it as a only a scientist. Ask yourself why smoking hasn't been banned. Politics. Its the same with fast food. Scientists can only advise.

 

The interesting bit is - why would the govt ruin the economy in favour of short term popularity. If the virus as containable as you suggest, why not be maverick compared to the rest of the world, so when this passes and the next election comes they can say - look we managed this in a way that kept the economy moving whilst limiting deaths to a minimum. That sounds like a vote winner, but it just isn't possible.

 

The unavoidable truth is letting this infections steadily rise will lead back to a full country lockdown. Better for the economy as a whole to a) lockdown localised areas and b) do it early so it takes a month not 3 months to get things under control.

 

We also need to remember the whole purpose of social restrictions is to keep the NHS working. People are still having strokes, heart attacks, other things that may require ventilation. We have to keep it that there's space and equipment in hospitals to treat these people, especially in a few months when the weather is colder and cases probably start to rise. 

 

The rules are shite, there's plenty of holes in them, and they're not enforceable in any way. It doesn't really matter. Following them will reduce infection chains, and so the hope is that enough of us go along with the rules to keep transmission low. It's a birch that the many have to behave in order to carry the few that flout the rules, but this isn't anything new.

[Nod.E]

5 minutes ago, Fktf said:

Gosh, there's a lot here. I'd say it is one thing to understand science, and another to be able to apply it as a only a scientist. Ask yourself why smoking hasn't been banned. Politics. Its the same with fast food. Scientists can only advise.

We broadly agree here. Scientists can only advise and governments pick and choose when to use it based on convenience. So it's frustrating that it isn't used for the greater good, but on this occasion it's used despite the kick back it has on the economy.

 

5 minutes ago, Fktf said:

The interesting bit is - why would the govt ruin the economy in favour of short term popularity. If the virus as containable as you suggest, why not be maverick compared to the rest of the world, so when this passes and the next election comes they can say - look we managed this in a way that kept the economy moving whilst limiting deaths to a minimum. That sounds like a vote winner, but it just isn't possible.

Because, ultimately there will be a small human sacrifice on the face of it. More directly attributable Covid deaths than would've been the case with more restrictions. The government know that words like 'sacrifice' won't wash in a 'cancel culture' world, even if there is a bigger picture which means less overall deaths. People are too fickle. Blame social media.

 

5 minutes ago, Fktf said:

The unavoidable truth is letting this infections steadily rise will lead back to a full country lockdown. Better for the economy as a whole to a) lockdown localised areas and b) do it early so it takes a month not 3 months to get things under control.

I'm not sure if that's true. The local lockdowns are based on cases rising from 5 in 100,000 to 10 or 12 in 100,000. Marginal stuff and could purely be a result of better track and trace implementation.

 

5 minutes ago, Fktf said:

 

We also need to remember the whole purpose of social restrictions is to keep the NHS working. People are still having strokes, heart attacks, other things that may require ventilation. We have to keep it that there's space and equipment in hospitals to treat these people, especially in a few months when the weather is colder and cases probably start to rise. 

Yep, this all makes sense. Keep distance. Work from home. Masks. Considerably more than we were doing December-March to get where we were in March/April.

 

5 minutes ago, Fktf said:

 

The rules are shite, there's plenty of holes in them, and they're not enforceable in any way. It doesn't really matter. Following them will reduce infection chains, and so the hope is that enough of us go along with the rules to keep transmission low. It's a birch that the many have to behave in order to carry the few that flout the rules, but this isn't anything new.

Even if they don't, there are so many changes to life (night clubs, working environment etc.) that it's unlikely we'll see any second wave being anything like as big as the initial peak.

[Sampson]

But we have masks, wfh and social distancing currently and cases have been rising again over the past 3 weeks or so. We went back over 700 cases a day on the rolling 7 day average today when it was 550 3 weeks ago - if it keeps rising at that rate even with these measures we'll be back at 10,000 cases a day again in November when the winter starts to kick in and it could easily accelerate from there.

 

Saying the numbers are *slightly* higher completely ignores exponential growth which happens as soon as your cases go up.

 

The government will have data Analyst on testing numbers and test and trace. They should easily be able to see the proportions of tests by the general population vs tests carried out via test and trace. You've got to be a bit of a conspiracy theory nut to think they dont have good evidence cases are genuinely rising in the area.

 

That's exactly the point as to why we have to reverse some measures and why we have to keep cases at a steady rate at the very least, if not a reducing one.

 

Spain's cases have shot through the roof the past week or two and now France's is starting to follow suit. We don't want the same thing to happen here and inatanoueous local restrictions to stop people leaving certain regions and local lockdowns are going to be the best way of stopping that.