Transfer Reality Check

[Jimbo]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, we live in a fifa generation.

 

Far too many people treat real life as if it's a computer game. People judge players on "ratings" and "chemistry" People will come up with players because they signed them for Leicester in a game. People judge a players performance because they scored 30 goals a season in a game, people get far too wound up by results in real life because you can't switch off without saving to have another go. Because people get so invested in a game they forget to factor in the infinite number of variables real life can throw up. People think they know what the transfer budget is because of what it is in a game, people go around thinking we can easily sell a player for an amount because that's what happens in a game. I genuinely don't think you can underestimate the affect that fifa and football manager have on some peoples way of thinking.

 

Most, if not all, who refer to a central midfielder such as James Maddison as a CAM or CDM in the case of Ndidi, have a warped way of viewing real life football and all involved with it, from transfers to how games should be played 

 

 

Edited 12 August 2020 by Jimbo

[Raw Dykes]

56 minutes ago, gerrytaggart said:

Unless mustard is the name of a 10/10 stunner then I refuse to believe this rumour. 

Colonel Mustard?

[Mike Oxlong]

1 hour ago, gerrytaggart said:

Unless mustard is the name of a 10/10 stunner then I refuse to believe this rumour. 

It’s up to you 

 

 Kendyl Mustard of Penhold was awarded the title of 2019 Miss Alberta National Canadian. Photo submitted

Edited 12 August 2020 by Mike Oxlong

[Bossman Blessed It]

20 hours ago, Saxondale said:

Transfer windows wind me up. Yes, signing new players is exciting, but fans get carried away.

 

If you believe half of our fanbase, we need to replace pretty much our entire first team every transfer window. I think we need a little bit of reality check.

 

1) I think fans (of all teams) have a tendency to under-rate their own team’s players and over-rate every other team’s players. There’s an obvious reason for this. We watch our own players for 90 mins, week after week, and form our opinion based on warts-and-all evidence. Our opinions of other teams’ players tend to be formed on Match of the Day highlights and suchlike, where you’re noticing the most interesting aspects of a player’s game.

 

2) Don’t pretend you have a detailed knowledge of a Bundesliga or Ligue 1 player. We all know you’ve formed your opinion based on FIFA or FM. And, frankly, if you genuinely have watched enough foreign domestic league football through which to form a valid opinion of a player, what are you doing with your life?

 

3) All transfers are a gamble. You can apply all the high-tech analysis and informed scouting knowledge to a player, but you cannot know if a player will fit in at a club, or in a team, or in a league. I saw some people on here were absolutely slating our management for signing Silva. This is patently ridiculous. He is a player with a rich pedigree, who everybody thought would be a huge asset. The reasons for him not fitting in are no doubt myriad. Silva has massive international pedigree and didn’t work, Vardy was a non-league player who became one of our all-time top 5 players. It will always be a gamble.

 

4) Signing players is not like on FM. Watch the Sunderland documentary on Netflix and the Leeds documentary on Amazon - they show the reality of signing players. Clubs do their best within the many constraints.

5) A high player turnover is not a good thing. You can’t build a team and culture if the personnel changes all the time. 
 

6) Some players won’t want to sign for us, for whatever reason.

 

7) You can’t pack your squad with too many world class first teamers, because they won’t all be able to start. Top level players don’t want to come to Leicester to sit on the bench. That’s why our squad has to be a mix of top players, high potential players and backup players.

 

 

While I agree with your overall sentiment that as a fanbase, we should level our expectations, not all of your points correspond particularly well with the activity on this forum. If you look at the entire first page of the 'Transfer Talk' section, the vast majority of discussion is based around either players who look subject to leave (i.e. Chilwell) and players in positions that we are clearly lacking in (i.e. a striker and winger). I think that perhaps you're describing something of an extreme when you say that 'half the fanbase' think we need to replace our entire squad; the positions that are being discussed are vital for us to consider transfer activity for. Players like Wes and Albrighton curtail the style of football that we aim to achieve and that in itself creates a ceiling, particularly with a more demanding schedule next season. 

 

I also think that assuming a level of knowledge that other people might have on different leagues in the accusatory tone you used is bizarre - some people genuinely are interested in the wider footballing sphere and there are plenty of merits to watching foreign domestic leagues. Moreover, I think we're really fortunate to have fanbases in many different parts of the world and people should feel welcome to share their understanding of leagues/players in countries that they might live in; it generates a much more broad and interesting discussion. 

 

Ultimately, I'm not sure why speculating about players you'd like to see at the club and having an open debate about their suitability is a bad thing - we can dream, right? 

 

 

[Webbo]

I've never heard of, at least 8 out 10 of the people we're linked with. Most of this subsection seems to be hypothetical arguments about players we probably won't sign. I don't know why I bother reading it.

[MPH]

35 minutes ago, Webbo said:

I've never heard of, at least 8 out 10 of the people we're linked with. Most of this subsection seems to be hypothetical arguments about players we probably won't sign. I don't know why I bother reading it.

 

 

Edited 13 August 2020 by MPH

[Webbo]

1 minute ago, MPH said:

 

 

That's my better looking younger brother.

[Grebfromgrebland]

It seems most players we are linked with are out of our range at the minute. 

 

We really needed champions league to attract the names being bandied around so now we can probably only get up and coming payers that aren't up and coming yet or players not wanted by other clubs. 

 

There's a good chance we waste a lot of the window chasing unrealistic targets who are not for sale or don't want to come here. 

 

Our second half collapse doesn't make us as attractive as it should as we look like a club on the way down rather than up.

 

[lcfc sheff]

If we don’t sign anyone in 24 hours I will sacrifice one member of this forum at random, good luck x

[ronnup]

41 minutes ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

It seems most players we are linked with are out of our range at the minute. 

 

We really needed champions league to attract the names being bandied around so now we can probably only get up and coming payers that aren't up and coming yet or players not wanted by other clubs. 

 

There's a good chance we waste a lot of the window chasing unrealistic targets who are not for sale or don't want to come here. 

 

Our second half collapse doesn't make us as attractive as it should as we look like a club on the way down rather than up.

 

I bet you're a laugh at parties 

[Leeds Fox]

On 12/08/2020 at 09:37, Jimbo said:

I've said it before and I'll say it again, we live in a fifa generation.

 

Far too many people treat real life as if it's a computer game. People judge players on "ratings" and "chemistry" People will come up with players because they signed them for Leicester in a game. People judge a players performance because they scored 30 goals a season in a game, people get far too wound up by results in real life because you can't switch off without saving to have another go. Because people get so invested in a game they forget to factor in the infinite number of variables real life can throw up. People think they know what the transfer budget is because of what it is in a game, people go around thinking we can easily sell a player for an amount because that's what happens in a game. I genuinely don't think you can underestimate the affect that fifa and football manager have on some peoples way of thinking.

 

Most, if not all, who refer to a central midfielder such as James Maddison as a CAM or CDM in the case of Ndidi, have a warped way of viewing real life football and all involved with it, from transfers to how games should be played 

 

 

I don’t play FIFA. I do find the people who do and don’t know anything about football yet spout about it mildly annoying. 
 

Especially the ones who bracket a player like Maddison as a CAM when he’s a Central Midfielder who can play in a number of roles. However, N’Didi is most definitely a CDM. Kante wasn’t but again he was seen by the majority as a defensive midfielder. For us he just played in a 2 mostly.

[Bluearmyfox28]

On 12/08/2020 at 09:37, Jimbo said:

I've said it before and I'll say it again, we live in a fifa generation.

 

Far too many people treat real life as if it's a computer game. People judge players on "ratings" and "chemistry" People will come up with players because they signed them for Leicester in a game. People judge a players performance because they scored 30 goals a season in a game, people get far too wound up by results in real life because you can't switch off without saving to have another go. Because people get so invested in a game they forget to factor in the infinite number of variables real life can throw up. People think they know what the transfer budget is because of what it is in a game, people go around thinking we can easily sell a player for an amount because that's what happens in a game. I genuinely don't think you can underestimate the affect that fifa and football manager have on some peoples way of thinking.

 

Most, if not all, who refer to a central midfielder such as James Maddison as a CAM or CDM in the case of Ndidi, have a warped way of viewing real life football and all involved with it, from transfers to how games should be played 

 

 

Agree with all bar from the last bit regarding positions. I get the point that you are making but I wouldn’t say they have a warped way of viewing football. In this day & age, Maddison’s position is CAM. Even the commentators use them references.

 

Personally I look at positions in numbers. For me a No.8 is a different type of midfielder to a No.10 for example. However people never really use numbers to describe a players attributes other than the obvious ones of 1,9 & 10.

[Jimbo]

8 hours ago, Leeds Fox said:

I don’t play FIFA. I do find the people who do and don’t know anything about football yet spout about it mildly annoying. 
 

Especially the ones who bracket a player like Maddison as a CAM when he’s a Central Midfielder who can play in a number of roles. However, N’Didi is most definitely a CDM. Kante wasn’t but again he was seen by the majority as a defensive midfielder. For us he just played in a 2 mostly.

The point was more about using the abbreviations created by fifa and football manager and the fact that the people who play it use those abbreviations to describe a certain player. 

 

Using Ndidi as an example, he is a central midfielder used in a defensive style. He is a "CDM" but the people who use these terms are generally the ones who play fifa and treat it as though it's real life and everything that happens within the game can and should happen in real life. 

 

It's a way of life now, I know it makes me sound old and a bit Victor Meldrew, but there's no patience anymore. I know this is a transfer thread so I'll keep it relevant. 

 

A transfer takes time. There are a whole number of factors to sort. Anything from agreeing a fee to convincing the player that Leicestershire and it's surrounding areas are a nice place to live. In a game a week lasts 2 minutes and I do think people neglect this fact. The impatience surrounding transfers is on ridiculous levels sometimes. Add to that the fact that people throw around names the majority of us have never heard of because of a some "in depth" knowledge of them gathered from a computer game. People will come up with players playing in France or Germany and most of the time have never even seen the player in real life other than googling them and watching some YouTube highlights 

Edited 14 August 2020 by Jimbo

[Leeds Fox]

6 minutes ago, Jimbo said:

The point was more about using the abbreviations created by fifa and football manager and the fact that the people who play it use those abbreviations to describe a certain player. 

 

Using Ndidi as an example, he is a central midfielder used in a defensive style. He is a "CDM" but the people who use these terms are generally the ones who play fifa and treat it as though it's real life and everything that happens within the game can and should happen in real life. 

 

It's a way of life now, I know it makes me sound old and a bit Victor Meldrew, but there's no patience anymore. I know this is a transfer thread so I'll keep it relevant. 

 

A transfer takes time. There are a whole number of factors to sort. Anything from agreeing a fee to convincing the player that Leicestershire and it's surrounding areas are a nice place to live. In a game a week lasts 2 minutes and I do think people neglect this fact. The impatience surrounding transfers is on ridiculous levels sometimes. Add to that the fact that people throw around names the majority of is have heard of because of a some "in depth" knowledge of them gathered from a computer game. People will come up with players playing in France or Germany and most of the time have never even seen the player in real life other than googling them and watching some YouTube highlights 

I got your point and I agree. It is annoying. I’d say Defensive Midfielder in person but on here CDM is generally much easier to type. Saying it though just sounds weird and the FM/FIFA players can be annoying when talking about football using those terms. 

[Raw Dykes]

On 12/08/2020 at 09:37, Jimbo said:

I've said it before and I'll say it again, we live in a fifa generation.

 

Far too many people treat real life as if it's a computer game. People judge players on "ratings" and "chemistry" People will come up with players because they signed them for Leicester in a game. People judge a players performance because they scored 30 goals a season in a game, people get far too wound up by results in real life because you can't switch off without saving to have another go. Because people get so invested in a game they forget to factor in the infinite number of variables real life can throw up. People think they know what the transfer budget is because of what it is in a game, people go around thinking we can easily sell a player for an amount because that's what happens in a game. I genuinely don't think you can underestimate the affect that fifa and football manager have on some peoples way of thinking.

 

Most, if not all, who refer to a central midfielder such as James Maddison as a CAM or CDM in the case of Ndidi, have a warped way of viewing real life football and all involved with it, from transfers to how games should be played

I was thinking about these recently. The C is completely redundant. What is an AM that isn't central? It's a winger. What is a DM that doesn't play centrally? It's a wing-back. Don't need the C at all.

[Dahnsouff]

1 minute ago, Raw Dykes said:

I was thinking about these recently. The C is completely redundant. What is an AM that isn't central? It's a winger. What is a DM that doesn't play centrally? It's a wing-back. Don't need the C at all.

Would disagree with this.

 

There are more than three positions behind the forwards, not just LW, AM and RW, the space is fluid.

It is actually the position behind the forwards but not as wide as wingers than Perez is best at, not just the strict AM position.

I realise this is extremely unhelpful when searching for classifications though, so sorry for that 

 

 

[Raw Dykes]

9 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Would disagree with this.

 

There are more than three positions behind the forwards, not just LW, AM and RW, the space is fluid.

It is actually the position behind the forwards but not as wide as wingers than Perez is best at, not just the strict AM position.

I realise this is extremely unhelpful when searching for classifications though, so sorry for that 

I think you're nitpicking a bit. While I agree that there is more than one position between the wingers, I doubt many people would differentiate between central attacking midfield and slightly-off-central attacking midfield. I don't think you'll find many players who can play AM but not 'SOCAM.' For all intents and purposes, I think it's probably safe to lump them both together under the same umbrella.

[Dahnsouff]

Just now, Raw Dykes said:

I think you're nitpicking a bit. While I agree that there is more than one position between the wingers, I doubt many people would differentiate between central attacking midfield and slightly-off-central attacking midfield. I don't think you'll find many players who can play AM but not 'SOCAM.' For all intents and purposes, I think it's probably safe to lump them both together under the same umbrella.

Fair enough, was nitpicky its true and probably only relevant when trying to classify Perez within our squad (But I do like the sound of the SOCAM position!)  

[CosbehFox]

Good point above refer CAM, 10s, LWs, 8s, double pivots.

 

I think it's where football analysis on TV really lets itself down. You have these experts on a panel. Tell us how you'd have dealt with a tactical issue occurring in the game. How you were partnered in a central midfield two. And how that compares to say dynamic of Maddison and Tielemans. As a playing centre-back, I know some CB relationships are dictated by left and right but others dictate by the aerial aggressor and the more pacey sweeper. Take Soyuncu as part of a back 3 against Arsenal - why was he struggling? 

 

For example I have spotted a problem with Villa where they realised they couldn't use Grealish in central midfield at the start of the season as he couldn't get the time or space to impact games. So they played him off the left wing. He floats and finds the space. The problem is that then the space he vacates is open in transition or counter-attack. Hence we had a field day in the league games - Ricky P loved it and we had this lovely available outball every time. Ironically in the first leg of the cup game, he played upfront and the second leg, he played with more strictness in his position. 

 

 

 

[Saxondale]

This needs bumping, soz.

 

How many of you have actually, genuinely, watched Tagliafico for 90 minutes on more than one occasion?

 

Apparently this guy is our saviour, yet everybody is dismissing Targett (who was impressive for Villa last year in a dodgy side) and Rose (who was, at one time, England's No.1 left back).

[coolhandfox]

Just now, Saxondale said:

This needs bumping, soz.

 

How many of you have actually, genuinely, watched Tagliafico for 90 minutes on more than one occasion?

 

Apparently this guy is our saviour, yet everybody is dismissing Targett (who was impressive for Villa last year in a dodgy side) and Rose (who was, at one time, England's No.1 left back).

Because it give them something to moan about, when they aren't moaning about the new kit, swapping the kop with the family stand etc

[ronnup]

3 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

Because it give them something to moan about, when they aren't moaning about the new kit, swapping the kop with the family stand etc

 

Good idea that. Tell me more