leicsmac Posted 15 February 2021 Author Share Posted 15 February 2021 41 minutes ago, LCFCCHRIS said: Not weird logic. Both political sides, including the followers of each side and the politicians themselves are so hard wired to that side and 'winning', it becomes tribal like and nothing to do with specifics. Think about how many people will totally ignore anything positive / negative a president does just because they are already predisposed to liking / disliking them. Trump obviously did some good things in his tenure but people would argue to the ends of the earth against you if you ever suggested it. Likewise the right has in general painted Biden as having a declining mental state, which they will swear by many times, but will pick out very selective clips of him messing up to prove it. I've seen so much of this one sided, dog eat dog attitude and politicians seem to propagate it with their own lies, and bashing / slandering their opponents. What makes you think the Dems would impeach biden if he did something similar? Would they really damage their party's image, probably risking the next election, to do what they believe is 'the right thing'? Not a chance IMO. Sometimes, one side *is* clearly in the wrong and does something that the other side rather clearly would not do. Sometimes, there is no apologist equivalence. Just my own take, but I'd say the events of January 6 fall into that category. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pSinatra Posted 15 February 2021 Share Posted 15 February 2021 I'm hoping Trump announces his new 'Patriot Party'. I can only assume he will use it to screw even more money out of his supporters, as I don't see there being any chance it being successful. It will also split the Republican vote. They'll wish they hadn't acquitted him 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCFCCHRIS Posted 15 February 2021 Share Posted 15 February 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, Carl the Llama said: The thing is the people who vote for them would be receptive to seeing them do the honourable thing, no such luck the other way. It's like I said yesterday: A right winger does something wrong and they're afforded the get out of jail free card that "the other side would be no different", meanwhile left wingers are scrutinised for eating food or wearing a sharp looking suit the same colour as previous right-wing incumbents. No idea how you think that's a similar level of malfeasance/accountability. I'm not sure who or what you're referring to but if you're referring to the media scrutinizing people based on those things they are probably both a) bias to the other side or b) stupid or even c) how most people talk on twitter which is a cesspit for it really Edited 15 February 2021 by LCFCCHRIS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCFCCHRIS Posted 15 February 2021 Share Posted 15 February 2021 4 hours ago, leicsmac said: Sometimes, one side *is* clearly in the wrong and does something that the other side rather clearly would not do. Sometimes, there is no apologist equivalence. Just my own take, but I'd say the events of January 6 fall into that category. Maybe but we were talking about if they'd vote to impeach their own guy, not if a dem would do the same thing trump was accused of. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 15 February 2021 Author Share Posted 15 February 2021 2 minutes ago, LCFCCHRIS said: Maybe but we were talking about if they'd vote to impeach their own guy, not if a dem would do the same thing trump was accused of. Considering what Trump was impeached for this time round, the two are inextricably linked, which was the point of my first reply on the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCFCCHRIS Posted 15 February 2021 Share Posted 15 February 2021 1 minute ago, leicsmac said: Considering what Trump was impeached for this time round, the two are inextricably linked, which was the point of my first reply on the matter. Fair enough but completely disagree that they are linked to such an extent and that the Dems would impeach. I'm not sure if you're trying to paint the democrats with a holy white light of goodness, but that they are not. We're obviously talking hypothetically. Let's see if anything further comes out about Biden in his tenure and we may get an answer to this hotly debated topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 15 February 2021 Share Posted 15 February 2021 1 hour ago, LCFCCHRIS said: I'm not sure who or what you're referring to but if you're referring to the media scrutinizing people based on those things they are probably both a) bias to the other side or b) stupid or even c) how most people talk on twitter which is a cesspit for it really The core of my response there is I think you're wrong, the Dems, or at least enough of them to make a difference, would have voted on conscience rather than pragmatism. That's why they do so badly at courting populism compared to the GOP. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Oxlong Posted 15 February 2021 Share Posted 15 February 2021 10 hours ago, Jon the Hat said: From their PoV if they lose half their support they would be handing the keys to the Dems for the next 20 years. How can they do their duty if they have no chance of power? Don’t you think that Trump has polarised the opposite ends of the GOP support in any event and ostracised it’s more centrist members ? Those who don’t agree with DT junior’s proclamation that this is not the republican party anymore, this party belongs to Donald Trump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 16 February 2021 Author Share Posted 16 February 2021 8 hours ago, LCFCCHRIS said: Fair enough but completely disagree that they are linked to such an extent and that the Dems would impeach. I'm not sure if you're trying to paint the democrats with a holy white light of goodness, but that they are not. We're obviously talking hypothetically. Let's see if anything further comes out about Biden in his tenure and we may get an answer to this hotly debated topic. I'm saying, rather simply, that the Dems would not incite an act of insurrection and encourage supporters to storm the Capitol Building, so there would be no situation where they would have to decide to impeach one of theirs over it or not. And there is precious little evidence to the contrary, so while the disagreement is welcomed it is also dismissed. With respect, your original post concerned that until the goalposts started to get moved and the topic became impeaching for anything. It is all totally hypothetical in that regard...but speaking personally, I wouldn't be floating the "fine people of both sides" line without proof to back it up as it is an opinion that gets spouted as fact far too often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 16 February 2021 Share Posted 16 February 2021 23 hours ago, Strokes said: Who else are the rabid mob going to vote for? They have to appeal to the moderates too, I think by not voting to impeach they may well have consigned themselves to years in the wilderness. The Rabid mob will probably not vote is the short answer, and those who don't usually vote but came out to get rid of Trump the same. We might never see voters numbers like Trump and Biden got again. An very unusual election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 16 February 2021 Share Posted 16 February 2021 12 hours ago, Mike Oxlong said: Don’t you think that Trump has polarised the opposite ends of the GOP support in any event and ostracised it’s more centrist members ? Those who don’t agree with DT junior’s proclamation that this is not the republican party anymore, this party belongs to Donald Trump The number of voters he got suggests not. What he has done is make the power base for the GoP less fundie Christian and more populist. From my perspective that is probably an inprovement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 16 February 2021 Author Share Posted 16 February 2021 22 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said: The number of voters he got suggests not. What he has done is make the power base for the GoP less fundie Christian and more populist. From my perspective that is probably an inprovement. I'm not sure where the assertion that the Repub power balance has shifted from the fundies is coming from tbh, considering that they turned out for him in 2016, he threw them a bone or two and they turned out for him again in 2020. I mean, Trump isn't exactly some pious pulpit thumper in the way that Pence is, but the prevailing wisdom is they still got plenty of their way with him in charge and as such they overlooked him not being a model Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Oxlong Posted 16 February 2021 Share Posted 16 February 2021 6 hours ago, Jon the Hat said: The number of voters he got suggests not. What he has done is make the power base for the GoP less fundie Christian and more populist. From my perspective that is probably an inprovement. I read that they’d had record membership resignations since the election with moderates and left of centrists jumping ship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 16 February 2021 Share Posted 16 February 2021 Trump remains 2024 candidate of choice for most Republicans, poll shows 59% of Republican voters said they wanted Trump to play prominent role in party, but tens of thousands left after Capitol riot If the 2024 Republican presidential primary were held today, Donald Trump would be the clear favorite to win big. That was the message from a Politico-Morning Consult poll released on Tuesday, three days after Trump’s acquittal in his second impeachment trial, on a charge of inciting the insurrection at the US Capitol on 6 January. Among Republican voters, 59% said they wanted Trump to play a prominent role in their party, up a whopping 18 points from the last such poll, taken in the aftermath of the Capitol riot. A slightly lower number, 54%, said they would back Trump in the primary. Tens of thousands of Republicans left the party after the Capitol insurrection, and a majority of Americans have told other pollsters they would like to see Trump banished from politics. Though the 45th president will be 78 by election day 2024, he will be able to run again if he chooses, having escaped being barred from office after a 57-43 Senate vote to convict – with seven Republican defections but 10 votes short of the majority needed. Mike Pence’s life was threatened by Trump supporters at the Capitol, as the vice-president presided over the ratification of electoral college results confirming Trump’s defeat by Joe Biden. He placed second in the Politico-Morning Consult poll, with 12%. Name recognition is a powerful force so far out from the contest concerned. Donald Trump Jr shared third place, with 6%, with Nikki Haley. The former South Carolina governor and United Nations ambassador has tried to distance herself from Trump since the Capitol riot. “We need to acknowledge he let us down,” Haley told Politico shortly after the attack. “He went down a path he shouldn’t have, and we shouldn’t have followed him, and we shouldn’t have listened to him. And we can’t let that ever happen again.” She also said Trump was “not going to run for federal office again”. Trump has not committed either way. After his acquittal, he told supporters: “Soon we will emerge with a vision for a bright, radiant and limitless American future.” In a message seen by the Guardian on Tuesday, one former Trump White House insider said a run was “gonna happen … or he will be drafted”. Mitt Romney, a figure from the Republican past as the 2012 nominee but now a Utah senator who has twice voted to convict Trump on impeachment charges, scored 4% in the new poll. Ted Cruz of Texas, one of the senators who backed Trump’s attempt to overturn his election defeat, scored 3%. Josh Hawley of Missouri, the other prominent Republican in objections to election results, was in a pack of names lower even than that. The battle for the soul of the party is on. On Monday, Senate minority leader Mitch McConnell followed an editorial in the Wall Street Journal which said Trump would not win another national election with a column of his own. McConnell restated his argument, made in a Senate speech in which he otherwise excoriated Trump, that Trump’s acquittal was a matter of constitutional law. Scholars, and the Senate twice, have rejected the argument that Trump could not be tried because he had left office. McConnell has also made clear that he will oppose pro-Trump candidates seeking Republican nominations in the 2022 midterms, if he thinks they would damage chances of beating a Democrat. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 16 February 2021 Share Posted 16 February 2021 The Dems need to start putting Kamala out there now if she is their candidate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I am Rod Hull Posted 16 February 2021 Share Posted 16 February 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jon the Hat said: The Dems need to start putting Kamala out there now if she is their candidate. Shagging Willie Brown made her. Kamala "The Cop" is relentless. Nothing but admiration for her Edited 16 February 2021 by I am Rod Hull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Oxlong Posted 17 February 2021 Share Posted 17 February 2021 Good to see Donnie having some fun before going clink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 17 February 2021 Author Share Posted 17 February 2021 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-electricity-texas-prices/texas-wholesale-electric-prices-spike-more-than-10000-amid-outages-idUSKBN2AF19A Funny what happens when a public necessity that requires heavy infrastructure to implement and maintain - thus making it difficult to have a truly competitive market - is instead left to the vagaries of the market anyway. Or it would be funny if wasn't for the people literally freezing to death. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Detroit Blues Posted 17 February 2021 Popular Post Share Posted 17 February 2021 On 16/02/2021 at 04:33, Jon the Hat said: The number of voters he got suggests not. What he has done is make the power base for the GoP less fundie Christian and more populist. From my perspective that is probably an inprovement. What I have noticed is that your non-evangelical Christian Republicans are the ones leaving the party. If you look at the Lincoln project, it is made up of former Republicans that campaigned against Trump and his cronies. These "classic" Republicans favor free market capitalism (something that the current Republican Party has gone away from). The Trump Republican Party favors populist/protectionist policies such as tariffs on imported goods. The only thing they can agree on, is that tax cuts for the wealthy are a good thing. Evangelical Christian Republicans still overwhelmingly support Trump. The reasons for supporting him are split: - Some believe that he's a born again Christian, and that his past bad behavior has been repented. - Some believe that he's an immoral man being used by God to make America a more Christian nation. - There's also a portion of evangelical Christians who cynically know he's a bad person, but think he's their best option to furthering policies they want. The reason the Republican Party is still backing Trump is that he has courted a new third group of Republicans. They are poorly educated white voters with low income and blue collar jobs that have been disaffected by politics and inherently skeptical of science. Millions of people that tend not to vote Republican in the past came out in droves for Trump. Even though Trump lost, congressional Republicans benefited. Republicans in congress need Trump's new base in order to stand any chance for re-election. If you understand that, it explains everything about what happened in the last 4 years: - The Republican Party embracing anti-science positions, leaving the Paris Accord, and dismantling the EPA. Debating the CDC experts and Dr. Fauci on COVID science, being vocally in support of not wearing masks as a matter of "personal freedom," rejecting any efforts to shut the economy down to slow COVID transmission - Being silent about the growing extremism with the new republican base - Q-anon, white nationalist groups - Acquitting Trump for the Capitol Riot even though they have publicly and privately said that Trump is morally responsible. As for whether or not, the Republican Party becoming more Populist is a good thing? Let's call right wing populism what it is - Fascism. I am not saying Trump and his followers are literally nazis. Though you will see some white nationalist Trump supporters gladly flying Nazi flags. I am saying that if you look at Umberto Eco's 14 properties of Fascist ideology, you can really see how Trump has utilized Fascist rhetoric to grow support, even leading to a soft coup attempt to overthrow our democratically elected government. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Oxlong Posted 17 February 2021 Share Posted 17 February 2021 Looking from the outside I’ve always had the impression that there’s been a significant fascist base in the USA for as long as anyone can remember but that in recent times they haven’t had anyone to hang their hat on until Trump came along 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 18 February 2021 Author Share Posted 18 February 2021 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54646305 May he find as much peace as he created. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozleicester Posted 18 February 2021 Share Posted 18 February 2021 22 minutes ago, leicsmac said: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54646305 May he find as much peace as he created. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 19 February 2021 Author Share Posted 19 February 2021 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56117800 Not a great look, Ted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SO1 Posted 19 February 2021 Share Posted 19 February 2021 4 hours ago, leicsmac said: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56117800 Not a great look, Ted. He's an absolute two faced scumbag just like the rest. These people have no shame. Never there when its something that actually matters to his constituents. From what I read the real damage of the freeze is going to come when things start to thaw out and water pipes break. We're talking Humanitarian disaster type problems. As in clean water shortages. And the Feds are doing nothing still. Check this guy out. What a sxxt show. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tim-boyd-texas-mayor-colorado-city-resigns-power-outages/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SO1 Posted 19 February 2021 Share Posted 19 February 2021 The more things change the more they stay the same or get worse. https://www.mintpressnews.com/biden-first-month-marked-by-broken-promises/275480/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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