Getting Brexit undone

[January47]

10 hours ago, st albans fox said:

Anyone who claims that uncertainty in the economy following the vote in 2016 and moreso the subsequent failure of may to gain a clear majority in her GE has not cost billions in lost GDP is at best ignorant at at worst disingenuous. 
 

we took a huge hit over several years - we’ve got to where we are now and covid has skewed everything. Hence it will be impossible to judge the upside (if there is any) now that we’ve actually left. 

Who has disputed that?

It's pretty obvious there will be short term issues and costs as there will be with any disruption or change.

[January47]

14 hours ago, danny. said:

Well, that's a lie.

 

Wow, people actually using data. Fair play. Saying it's a lie is a bit strong though....from the charts more like 9 months for the euro and 2.5 years for the dollar so still makes the point that after leaving the eu the value of the pound has increased.

[danny.]

6 minutes ago, January47 said:

Wow, people actually using data. Fair play. Saying it's a lie is a bit strong though....from the charts more like 9 months for the euro and 2.5 years for the dollar so still makes the point that after leaving the eu the value of the pound has increased.

Well, it’s not true, whether you intended to deceive or not. If the point you’re trying to make is that leaving the EU has resulted in a stronger pound then the data clearly shows otherwise as we’re nowhere near pre-referendum levels. It has gone up since the end of 2020 though, hopefully it carries on rising as it’s become very expensive to buy from the EU now!

Edited 16 February 2021 by danny.

[danny.]

18 hours ago, Gordon the Great said:

No Not specific individuals, like any massive institution it will have it`s rotten Apples. In truth I have no hatred for anyone from anywhere. I have visited every country in Europe bar 3 in the last 15 years and never had any problem with anyone whilst there. I have friends of 30 years plus in both Belgium and Holland and am a qualified guide to the First world war battlefields. I can stay in both countries without bothering about hotels etc (Covid allowing)

I strongly believe that you cannot have German Bankers, Dutch Industrialists, and Italian and Greek farmers living under the same Fiscal roof.it quite simply doesn't work and I think the problems of Greece, Italy, Ireland Portugal etc are evidence of that.

They really don`t want us but they want our financial clout(Such as it may be), and we ....certainly the "We" of my generation don`t want to be formally joined to them. Some of them, France, Germany, Austria to name a few, there are more, are not and have never been our so called friends. In this, I do not refer to the average Joe in the street ,but the Policy's of National Government .

Sadly it all goes back to recent history which will surely slip away in time, but the French will never forgive us, the Allies in general, but the British in particular for pulling them out of their 1940-1944 humiliation.

To think, that not 11 years after the rape, pillage and cold bloodied murder of it`s citizens De Gaulle and his cronies got into bed with the Germans to form the nucleus of the Common market....downright shameful in my humble opinion.

However you got me off on one so I'll stop there. Suffice to say we had the Greatest Democratic vote that this Nation has ever seen in 2016 and we voted to leave. It is what it is, I truly believe that it was the right decision, some , including family and close friends voted to remain, their choice ,no problem but it`s over now, we need to move on. 

How old are you? I’m under 40 and have German and French friends and really no one cares about events from 80 years ago anymore. It’s the older generation clutching on to these events from another century that stops any progress. I wish you’d just let it go, the current generations have. 

[SemperEadem]

3 minutes ago, danny. said:

How old are you? I’m under 40 and have German and French friends and really no one cares about events from 80 years ago anymore. It’s the older generation clutching on to these events from another century that stops any progress. I wish you’d just let it go, the current generations have. 

Weird fetish in this country about the war.

[Buce]

19 minutes ago, SemperEadem said:

Weird fetish in this country about the war.

 

And always fom those too young to have fought in it.

[January47]

59 minutes ago, danny. said:

Well, it’s not true, whether you intended to deceive or not. If the point you’re trying to make is that leaving the EU has resulted in a stronger pound then the data clearly shows otherwise as we’re nowhere near pre-referendum levels. It has gone up since the end of 2020 though, hopefully it carries on rising as it’s become very expensive to buy from the EU now!

I didn't talk about changes since we had the referendum. The point I was making (not very well to be honest because I was too lazy to look up the data) is the value of the pound has risen recently despite all the warnings of doom and gloom

[Bellend Sebastian]

23 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

And always fom those too young to have fought in it.

But not too young to have been raised on wall to wall war films, which do present those events in a particular way

 

 

[Voll Blau]

31 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

And always fom those too young to have fought in it.

Or, in many cases, actually lived through it...

[January47]

29 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

And always fom those too young to have fought in it.

Look I don't care about the war or have anything against any other nationality because of it, but the EU is a direct result of and reaction to the second world war, so some some historical context is useful.

[st albans fox]

1 hour ago, January47 said:

Wow, people actually using data. Fair play. Saying it's a lie is a bit strong though....from the charts more like 9 months for the euro and 2.5 years for the dollar so still makes the point that after leaving the eu the value of the pound has increased.

 

1 hour ago, danny. said:

Well, it’s not true, whether you intended to deceive or not. If the point you’re trying to make is that leaving the EU has resulted in a stronger pound then the data clearly shows otherwise as we’re nowhere near pre-referendum levels. It has gone up since the end of 2020 though, hopefully it carries on rising as it’s become very expensive to buy from the EU now!

 

26 minutes ago, January47 said:

I didn't talk about changes since we had the referendum. The point I was making (not very well to be honest because I was too lazy to look up the data) is the value of the pound has risen recently despite all the warnings of doom and gloom

anyone who is making an argument that Sterling has strengthened because of brexit is stark raving bonkers ......

[Alf Bentley]

33 minutes ago, January47 said:

I didn't talk about changes since we had the referendum. The point I was making (not very well to be honest because I was too lazy to look up the data) is the value of the pound has risen recently despite all the warnings of doom and gloom

 

The value of the pound has risen slightly - since the Deal v. No Deal uncertainty ended (Dec. 2020).

 

But, as the pound/euro graph shows, sterling is still well below its level when the Withdrawal Act was agreed & signed (Dec. 2019-Jan. 2020)....never mind the much higher level before the Brexit referendum (2016).

In almost 5 years since the referendum, sterling has never got close to the level it was before that vote.

 

If you're going to look only at short-term stats, you'd presumably claim that Forest and Derby are both doing brilliantly, as they've moved out of the Championship relegation zone recently?

Never mind the fact that they were once regularly in the top tier and even, God help us, title winners. 

 

(Caveat: of course, other factors will have influenced exchange rate movements - particularly the £/$ rate)

 

To be fair, some Brexiteers accepted that Brexit would damage the economy and living standards, but felt it was worth it in order to "take back control of our laws, borders and money" or whatever the cliché was - and that we'd strike great new trade deals with fast-growing nations in far-flung parts of the world.....let's see, eh?

 

 

 

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, SemperEadem said:

Weird fetish in this country about the war.

Odd thing to fetishise something that resulted in the deaths of countless millions of people, too, even if the cause for it was just.

[Dahnsouff]

1 hour ago, January47 said:

I didn't talk about changes since we had the referendum. The point I was making (not very well to be honest because I was too lazy to look up the data) is the value of the pound has risen recently despite all the warnings of doom and gloom

Not disputing it’s an improvement, but it’s an improvement in the same way my broken leg is getting better, but it was more useful before I broke it. 

 

(I don’t have a broken leg by the way)

[BKLFox]

1 hour ago, SemperEadem said:

Weird fetish in this country about the war.

Which Country & in what way?

[leicsmac]

18 minutes ago, BKLFox said:

Which Country & in what way?

I would have thought the context makes that obvious, but seeing as it doesn't I'm guessing the answers are "the UK" and "view far too many aspects of current events in general including Brexit as well as other cultures through the context of that war while thinking nothing of the way things and people have changed in the eighty years since", in that order.

 

And to forestall the reply that there's no one that does that...well, there clearly is, as a post demonstrating it has been replied to on this very page of this very thread.

 

Sorry for replying for in your stead btw, @SemperEadem.

[Rap0sa]

[January47]

2 hours ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

The value of the pound has risen slightly - since the Deal v. No Deal uncertainty ended (Dec. 2020).

 

But, as the pound/euro graph shows, sterling is still well below its level when the Withdrawal Act was agreed & signed (Dec. 2019-Jan. 2020)....never mind the much higher level before the Brexit referendum (2016).

In almost 5 years since the referendum, sterling has never got close to the level it was before that vote.

 

If you're going to look only at short-term stats, you'd presumably claim that Forest and Derby are both doing brilliantly, as they've moved out of the Championship relegation zone recently?

Never mind the fact that they were once regularly in the top tier and even, God help us, title winners. 

 

(Caveat: of course, other factors will have influenced exchange rate movements - particularly the £/$ rate)

 

To be fair, some Brexiteers accepted that Brexit would damage the economy and living standards, but felt it was worth it in order to "take back control of our laws, borders and money" or whatever the cliché was - and that we'd strike great new trade deals with fast-growing nations in far-flung parts of the world.....let's see, eh?

 

 

 

Nothing you say here is in contradiction to what I said because I was focusing on recent changes. Some forecasters in 2020 were predicting the end of civilisation starting in January.

It's almost as if you have an agenda to follow. 

And as far as I'm concerned I love how Forest and Derby are doing.

[Strokes]

5 hours ago, danny. said:

How old are you? I’m under 40 and have German and French friends and really no one cares about events from 80 years ago anymore. It’s the older generation clutching on to these events from another century that stops any progress. I wish you’d just let it go, the current generations have. 

We get weekly reminders of how bad we were 300+ years ago at the start of every football match. So I’m not sure it’s that weird to be honest to be a little bit resentful of events just outside our lifetime.

[enmac]

Adam Payne

 

@adampayne26

· 1h

Stark lines from the @CommonsDCMS session on post-Brexit barriers to touring musicians • Will harm up-and-coming UK artists the most — £600 to do one gig in Spain • Some artists considering quitting altogether • Hauliers face “imminent insolvency”

[leicsmac]

9 minutes ago, Strokes said:

We get weekly reminders of how bad we were 300+ years ago at the start of every football match. So I’m not sure it’s that weird to be honest to be a little bit resentful of events just outside our lifetime.

I'm reasonably sure what is being referred to here does in fact have some basis in current events (you could ask George Floyd, were he still alive...) rather than just being motivated by events beyond or close to beyond living memory.

[Rap0sa]

[Strokes]

3 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

I'm reasonably sure what is being referred to here does in fact have some basis in current events (you could ask George Floyd, were he still alive...) rather than just being motivated by events beyond or close to beyond living memory.

George Floyd has nothing to do with this country and when events were escalating it was intimated that events from over 300 years ago were still an issue.

Thats fine but then don’t tell people they can’t feel anything about issues much less a time away.

[Rap0sa]

[leicsmac]

2 minutes ago, Strokes said:

George Floyd has nothing to do with this country and when events were escalating it was intimated that events from over 300 years ago were still an issue.

Thats fine but then don’t tell people they can’t feel anything about issues much less a time away.

But it does have to do with the issue of modern day racism in general, which is still evidently problematic in the present day in the UK (if the abuse certain footballers have been copping is anything to go by) as well as the US (though obviously not to the same degree).

 

There is no equivalence between the BLM movement and those who use WWII as an excuse to dislike Europe and its institutions, because the former has no basis in current events and the latter does, despite the use of some of the people involved going on about the slave trade as a convenient strawman.