Getting Brexit undone

[Voll Blau]

11 hours ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

Social media is never an accurate barometer but I suspect the rabid FBPE mob would rather the country goes to the wall and be proved "right" than accept stuff which goes well because of Brexit.

Those types are also the reason many people won't change their minds no matter what negative things come with Brexit. People would rather stand by a bad decision than be seen as being on the same side as that lot. Their lack of self-awareness is astonishing at times. 

[Rap0sa]

And in years to come, be it five or ten, mention brexit and its failings you'll be greeted with the response, "Oh your not still going on about that, that was years ago. Get over it."

[enmac]

18 minutes ago, January47 said:

Are you being serious. Euro share trading has seen a shift to Amsterdam, but all more or less done electronically anyway. Total jobs lost in financial sector are currently put at 7,000: estimates by some 'experts' had predicted 500,000 prior to brexit

 

Both 'sides' can cherry pick facts but the truth is it will take time for longer term effects to be seen and nobody really knows what will happen.

 

The pound is currently at several year highs against the euro and the dollar....this is people 'betting' with real money as to what they think will happen. Some people were predicting that the pound would go to lower than parity with the euro last year.. 

 

To quote that well known brexiteer Ursula Von Leyen, maybe its because a country can now operate like a speedboat rather than an oil tanker.

 

Pound rising is because of vaccine rollout. Nothing more. 

[Carl the Llama]

19 hours ago, Gordon the Great said:

I wouldn't let it eat you up..........the whole rotting institution will be gone in 20 years. Just hope I live to see it My Grandchildren now live in a free ,independent, sovereign nation .........and that will do for me.

Which people in Europe do you see leading to its dissipation?  Is there someone in particular whose behaviour you have in mind when you talk about rotting institutions?

Edited 15 February 2021 by Carl the Llama

[Facecloth]

1 hour ago, Rap0sa said:

And in years to come, be it five or ten, mention brexit and its failings you'll be greeted with the response, "Oh your not still going on about that, that was years ago. Get over it."

Thats been happening since 2016 

[Jon the Hat]

5 hours ago, Rap0sa said:

Most financial services have already moved to Amsterdam.

Businesses are setting up shop in Europe because of red tape.

 

 

Utter nonsense.  The City competes with New York and Singapore, there is no comparable centre in Europe and it is unlikely there will be in the next generation.

Those moves which went to Amsterdam are a decent chunk on the on the market Euro trades, but this is a small part of the overall share trading done in London.

[Dahnsouff]

Company I work for has certainly been hit, with customers insisting on EU locations, collateral, so thank goodness for the US as EU tenders walk away but this in itself is a little sad  

[Gordon the Great]

2 hours ago, Carl the Llama said:

Which people in Europe do you see leading to its dissipation?  Is there someone in particular whose behaviour you have in mind when you talk about rotting institutions?

No Not specific individuals, like any massive institution it will have it`s rotten Apples. In truth I have no hatred for anyone from anywhere. I have visited every country in Europe bar 3 in the last 15 years and never had any problem with anyone whilst there. I have friends of 30 years plus in both Belgium and Holland and am a qualified guide to the First world war battlefields. I can stay in both countries without bothering about hotels etc (Covid allowing)

I strongly believe that you cannot have German Bankers, Dutch Industrialists, and Italian and Greek farmers living under the same Fiscal roof.it quite simply doesn't work and I think the problems of Greece, Italy, Ireland Portugal etc are evidence of that.

They really don`t want us but they want our financial clout(Such as it may be), and we ....certainly the "We" of my generation don`t want to be formally joined to them. Some of them, France, Germany, Austria to name a few, there are more, are not and have never been our so called friends. In this, I do not refer to the average Joe in the street ,but the Policy's of National Government .

Sadly it all goes back to recent history which will surely slip away in time, but the French will never forgive us, the Allies in general, but the British in particular for pulling them out of their 1940-1944 humiliation.

To think, that not 11 years after the rape, pillage and cold bloodied murder of it`s citizens De Gaulle and his cronies got into bed with the Germans to form the nucleus of the Common market....downright shameful in my humble opinion.

However you got me off on one so I'll stop there. Suffice to say we had the Greatest Democratic vote that this Nation has ever seen in 2016 and we voted to leave. It is what it is, I truly believe that it was the right decision, some , including family and close friends voted to remain, their choice ,no problem but it`s over now, we need to move on. 

[Rap0sa]

Brexit did cost Great Britain 212 billion pounds (234 billion euros) by the end of 2020.

This is almost as much as the UK contributed to the EU budget in 47 years during its EU membership.

According to research from Bloomberg Economics, business uncertainty following Brexit has meant that economic growth in the UK has lagged other countries within the G7 since the Brexit referendum in 2016.

[Finnaldo]

27 minutes ago, Gordon the Great said:

To think, that not 11 years after the rape, pillage and cold bloodied murder of it`s citizens De Gaulle and his cronies got into bed with the Germans to form the nucleus of the Common market....downright shameful in my humble opinion.

If this is your opinion then fair enough, but in that case then after the famine, wars and distress we’ve historically caused to a quarter of the globe we shouldn’t expect much trade ourselves. 

[Gordon the Great]

3 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

If this is your opinion then fair enough, but in that case then after the famine, wars and distress we’ve historically caused to a quarter of the globe we shouldn’t expect much trade ourselves. 

We`ll be fine.

[dsr-burnley]

22 hours ago, bovril said:

Just out of interest why do you think this feeling exists much more in England than other nations? I accept that Euroscepticism is quite strong in some other places but why is it only here that a political party committed to putting up barriers to the rest of the EU wins elections? What is it that we know that other countries don't, or is it fear that's keeping other countries in their place? 

I suspect a lot of it is that the EU is based on the European political model and Napoleonic law code, so peoples whose domestic politics are based on the European model and whose domestic laws are based on the Napoleonic code find it easier to like the EU than peoples whose politics and laws are based on the Anglo-Saxon model.

[Carl the Llama]

 

35 minutes ago, Gordon the Great said:

No Not specific individuals, like any massive institution it will have it`s rotten Apples. In truth I have no hatred for anyone from anywhere.

[...]

Sadly it all goes back to recent history which will surely slip away in time, but the French will never forgive us, the Allies in general, but the British in particular for pulling them out of their 1940-1944 humiliation.

 

I'm sorry I've tried writing a reasoned response to your post but I just can't get past this cognitive dissonance.  What does that 2nd sentence even mean?  The French are pissed at us for helping them clear out the Nazis?  What?

[January47]

27 minutes ago, Rap0sa said:

Brexit did cost Great Britain 212 billion pounds (234 billion euros) by the end of 2020.

This is almost as much as the UK contributed to the EU budget in 47 years during its EU membership.

According to research from Bloomberg Economics, business uncertainty following Brexit has meant that economic growth in the UK has lagged other countries within the G7 since the Brexit referendum in 2016.

That analysis has been trashed by people who actually look at the data. It's all based on estimates, mostly wrong, and relying on pre-brexit trends continuing and doesn't allow for covid. 

Bloomberg are not some independent organization but have a political agenda to promote.

[Finnaldo]

22 minutes ago, Gordon the Great said:

We`ll be fine.

I know we will, I’m just a little confused about why France shouldn’t do business with Germany because they had an awful regime once upon a time? If that’s the case why should any region of the Empire where we manufactured famine or used concentration camps (in the same period of Nazi Germany) trade with us? 
 

If you’re gonna diplomatically hold countries today on historical injustices rather than just move on then we’ll have an ever shrinking list of trade partners ourselves.

[Gordon the Great]

5 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

 

 

I'm sorry I've tried writing a reasoned response to your post but I just can't get past this cognitive dissonance.  What does that 2nd sentence even mean?  The French are pissed at us for helping them clear out the Nazis?  What?

Exactly that. They will never be able to acknowledge the truth, it really is a fact.

If you visit the Normandy museums you will see that they have attempted to expunge all things British from the true history everything is about the Americans ,French and Canadian troops on D-Day it is truly laughable.

Around about 110, 000 troops landed on D-Day, 400 off which were French and very brave they were too,  but the French have always tried to re-write History, as to some extent have the Yanks. If you wish I can point you in the direction off several books written straight after or even during the war which will give you some idea of the abject capitulation and the subsequent collaboration of the French government in the murder and subjugation  of it`s own people.

  

[January47]

5 hours ago, enmac said:

Pound rising is because of vaccine rollout. Nothing more. 

Its actually relatively higher against the dollar and the US has had a reasonable vaccine roll out. 

[oxford blue]

6 hours ago, enmac said:

Pound rising is because of vaccine rollout. Nothing more. 

I am sure you will agree that the UK (outside the EU) has got the vaccine rollout right. Even a country like Germany, at the hart of the EU,  is expressing frustration at the handling on behalf of the bloc by the European Commission with the pitiful shortage of supply of vaccine.. Whatever short term disadvantages there may be outside the EU, the main issue for nearly everyone in Europe is collective lockdown and the country that has left will be the one ablet o allow citizens a sort of normality first. (Not relevant to this thread, but I have been critical of much of what has happened over past 11 months re CV)

[danny.]

7 hours ago, January47 said:

The pound is currently at several year highs against the euro and the dollar....this is people 'betting' with real money as to what they think will happen. 

 

Well, that's a lie.

 

Edited 15 February 2021 by danny.

[Costock_Fox]

Recon the OP has opened this up nicely for a well balanced debate tbf.

[Heathrow fox]

4 hours ago, Carl the Llama said:

 

 

I'm sorry I've tried writing a reasoned response to your post but I just can't get past this cognitive dissonance.  What does that 2nd sentence even mean?  The French are pissed at us for helping them clear out the Nazis?  What?

France was a proud great nation.It was the biggest power to be occupied during WW2.They believed they had the best army in the world.Once the fighting started it was out fought and out thought within six weeks.Humiliated by it’s biggest rivals.Come on,deep down it must have rankled that they needed liberating.Especially as it’s other historical rival was saved again by the channel.

[st albans fox]

Anyone who claims that uncertainty in the economy following the vote in 2016 and moreso the subsequent failure of may to gain a clear majority in her GE has not cost billions in lost GDP is at best ignorant at at worst disingenuous. 
 

we took a huge hit over several years - we’ve got to where we are now and covid has skewed everything. Hence it will be impossible to judge the upside (if there is any) now that we’ve actually left. 

[zorro en españa]

22 hours ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

Social media is never an accurate barometer but I suspect the rabid FBPE mob would rather the country goes to the wall and be proved "right" than accept stuff which goes well because of Brexit.

 

You do amuse me.  Your many contributions to the FT forum carry weight but it is clear you are entrenched in a political narrative which, may I dare to suggest, a little bit more reflection on how you are coming across might be worth considering.

 

A term like the “rabid FBPE mob” hopefully illustrates what I am trying to say.  I think there is some credence in some wanting Brexit to fail but, before you attach too much to that, I would argue you need to look a little closer at the intransigence of the “winning side” - a provocative term as well and I will leave you to ponder the insinuation. 

 

[UpTheLeagueFox]

15 minutes ago, zorro en españa said:

You do amuse me.  Your many contributions to the FT forum carry weight but it is clear you are entrenched in a political narrative which, may I dare to suggest, a little bit more reflection on how you are coming across might be worth considering.

A term like the “rabid FBPE mob” hopefully illustrates what I am trying to say.  I think there is some credence in some wanting Brexit to fail but, before you attach too much to that, I would argue you need to look a little closer at the intransigence of the “winning side” - a provocative term as well and I will leave you to ponder the insinuation. 

Not sure if you're aware but I was on "the losing side" as I voted remain.

I accepted the result and am glad we've now left and hope success follows because of it.

The extreme rabid mobs on both sides are no friends of mine.

Hope that helps explain my views.

[Leicester_Loyal]

Welcome back FIF