World class

[foxfanazer]

Which of our current players would you say are currently world class or have been World class whilst at our club? 

 

For me Ndidi is for the simple fact I don't think there's anyone better in his position in world football, not even N'golo Kante. 

 

Secondly Youri Tielemans! The most elegant player I ever remember watching play for us. Dictates the tempo of games and is just a Rolls Royce midfielder. Gonna be a hell of a job to keep hold of him

 

Jamie Vardy, don't even come at me for this one! People have short memories but this guy is the best we've ever had. Simple as that! 

 

We also have plenty of players capable of reaching world class status in Barnes, Fofana, Soyuncu, (Nacho ) 

 

I suppose the term World class is overused nowadays and is up for interpretation but they're my thoughts 

[Crazy Kop Corner]

I thought some of Ricardo's performances last season were getting very close to World Class 

[foxfanazer]

Just now, Crazy Kop Corner said:

I thought some of Ricardo's performances last season were getting very close to World Class 

Bloody hell I forgot about Ricardo. I'd stick him in the second category with Cags etc! Certainly has the potential 

[Muzzy_Larsson]

It all depends on your definition of world class. For me world class is being one of the best 2 or 3 players in your position in world football and consistently performing at the highest level, in a top league and the champions league.

 

By that definition and I don't mean this in a bad way none of the current crop of Leicester players are world class at the moment, a couple have the potential to be though. 

 

After reading Alex Ferguson's second  book I re-evaluated what world class meant based on his evaluation of it.

 

I'd say in the title winning side Kante, Mahrez and possibly Vardy could have been considered world class mind you. Much like Larsson was at Celtic though, whatever Vardy is you wouldn't swap him for any other player in the world at any point in time as he's symbolic and what he is and represents goes way beyond just footballing ability.

Edited 22 March 2021 by Muzzy_Larsson

[LC/FC]

We are World class because there are hardly any other players I would have from other team's to strengthen our squad.

Yet our players are coveted and desired by all the other Top clubs and have been since Kante where we've sold 1 big player each year.

[foxfanazer]

2 minutes ago, Muzzy_Larsson said:

It all depends on your definition of world class. For me world class is being one of the best 2 or 3 players in your position in world football and consistently performing at the highest level, in a top league and the champions league.

 

By that definition and I don't mean this in a bad way none of the current crop of Leicester players are world class at the moment, a couple have the potential to be though. 

 

I'd say in the title winning side Kante, Mahrez and possibly Vardy could have been considered world class mind you.

That's a fair opinion. Out of interest name me 3 better CDM's than Ndidi? 

Edited 22 March 2021 by foxfanazer

[Dahnsouff]

If you are judging it quite reactively, then quite a few, but if you gauge over a period of time as @Muzzy_Larsson said, probably no-one, BUT many are heading in that direction. World Class implies a longer period of judgement rather than over a season and also implies a strong level of consistency.

 

Then again, World Class itself is an observer based classification, so fewk knows.

[Ric Flair]

2 minutes ago, Muzzy_Larsson said:

It all depends on your definition of world class. For me world class is being one of the best 2 or 3 players in your position in world football and consistently performing at the highest level, in a top league and the champions league.

 

By that definition and I don't mean this in a bad way none of the current crop of Leicester players are world class at the moment, a couple have the potential to be though. 

 

I'd say in the title winning side Kante, Mahrez and possibly Vardy could have been considered world class mind you. Much like Larsson was at Celtic though, whatever Vardy is you wouldn't swap him for any other player in the world at any point in time as he's symbolic and what he is and represents goes way beyond just footballing ability.

Are there 3 better DCM's in the world than Ndidi? I'm honestly not sure there is and I'm hard pushed to find 3 better CM's than Tielemans this season. His lack of pace seemed to be the comfortable narrative as to why he was at Leicester but its almost vanished as an issue given how dominant he is in a deeper position where he doesn't get caught out. He's mind blowingly good.

[foxfanazer]

I must admit this thread largely stems from me buzzing my tits off from last night. Ndidi is a dead cert for me though

[Muzzy_Larsson]

Just now, foxfanazer said:

That's a fair opinion. Out of interest name me 3 better CDM's than Ndidi? 

Well that's the bones of my point, as much of a monster of a player as Ndidi is until he starts mixing it with the guys at the very top level of the game and replicating that frm consistently at Champions league level I don't think you can compare him to guys who are and have been doing it consistently, in the latter stages of the champions league, year in year out. He unquestionably has the ability to hit those heights though. Off the top of my head I'd give examples of the type of players who have been and are doing that are Kante (obviously even higher again with winning a world cup), Casemiro, Fabinho (understand he's had a poor season this year), Kimmich (probably the best RB and holding midfielder lol). In terms of ability and potential Ndidi is right up there but like I've been saying my gauge of world class goes beyond that. From my own club, in all my time of watching them I'd say I've only ever seen one player who was world class and that was Larsson, particularly in the year he won the European golden boot scoring 53 goals.

 

Like I was saying it all depends on how you define 'world class'.

[Greg2607]

i'd say none of our players are world class. that isn't a criticism of the players, this is the best squad i've known in 38 years of being alive.  But until we are seen as a team that compete regularly in the champions league and our players are competing / beating the better teams in the competition, then they are just very very good footballers. 

 

We don't see Barcelona, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich etc courting our players in general. We probably never will. 

 

 

[Muzzy_Larsson]

6 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Are there 3 better DCM's in the world than Ndidi? I'm honestly not sure there is and I'm hard pushed to find 3 better CM's than Tielemans this season. His lack of pace seemed to be the comfortable narrative as to why he was at Leicester but its almost vanished as an issue given how dominant he is in a deeper position where he doesn't get caught out. He's mind blowingly good.

Better on what basis? Like I said my yardstick is players doing it consistently at the highest possible level, I don't think it's a valid comparison to compare players with the greatest respect who went out the Europa League at the last 16 stage with guys who are performing and mixing it with the very best in the last four of the champions league and the likes, particularly the guys who do this season after season. Tielemans and Ndidi unquestionably have everything to be world class but until they consistently show that at the very highest level, based on my interpretation of world class anyway, I don't think you can consider them to be.

[AKCJ]

The definition I use for world class is if there was to be a 23 man squad, who would be in it.

 

I think Ndidi has the most viable shout to be included from our side. I think Kimmich gets into the starting 11 but it's between Ndidi and Casemiro for the bench.

[Ric Flair]

2 minutes ago, Muzzy_Larsson said:

Better on what basis? Like I said my yardstick is players doing it consistently at the highest possible level, I don't think it's a valid comparison to compare players with the greatest respect who went out the Europa League at the last 16 stage with guys who are performing and mixing it with the very best in the last four of the champions league and the likes, particularly the guys who do this season after season. Tielemans and Ndidi unquestionably have everything to be world class but until they consistently show that at the very highest level, based on my interpretation of world class anyway, I don't think you can consider them to be.

I get what you're saying and to cement yourself as world class you have to do it over a sustained period at the highest level. The Champions League is supposedly the highest level but its not the be all and end all.

 

Let's look at Tielemans for example. Leicester have been in the top 4 since pretty much the start of 2019/20 except for 1 week (the last bloody week of the 2019/20 when it mattered) he's also now the first name on the team sheet for arguably one of the top 3 nations in the world. He's actually forced Martinez to play De Bruyne in a slightly different position due to how good Tielemans has been for Belgium.

 

Anyway, for nearly 2 seasons now we have been one of the best teams in the country and backed it up. Tielemans should honestly be in consideration for the PFA POTY if the season continues how it looks to be ending. I'd put him in that world class bracket. 

[LC/FC]

A squad full of International Quality players isn't World Class? That's literally what World class is. The countries of the World playing each other in tournaments such as the World Cup.

And we're currently stacked full of Internationals.

Having no World class players meant twiddling your thumbs for 2 weeks during the International break and not checking results because our players aren't playing. We lose half the squad these days!

[Muzzy_Larsson]

My criteria is less stringent than this but for the purposes of the thread here is Sir Alex Ferguson's interpretation of world class.

 

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/10001297/sir-alex-ferguson-i-only-ever-had-four-world-class-players-at-manchester-united

[Babylon]

5 minutes ago, Muzzy_Larsson said:

Better on what basis? Like I said my yardstick is players doing it consistently at the highest possible level, I don't think it's a valid comparison to compare players with the greatest respect who went out the Europa League at the last 16 stage with guys who are performing and mixing it with the very best in the last four of the champions league and the likes, particularly the guys who do this season after season. Tielemans and Ndidi unquestionably have everything to be world class but until they consistently show that at the very highest level, based on my interpretation of world class anyway, I don't think you can consider them to be.

Can't agree that you can somehow only be considered "world class" if you are mixing it in the champions league. There are enough good teams in this league to measure a players performances against. Kante for instance it was blindingly obvious how good he was, I don't think he put in a performance lower than a 9/10 more than once or twice in a season, and they were probably 8's. To say, sorry mate you're not world class as you didn't play against Shakhtar Donetsk, seems a bit unfair. 

 

Not that I consider any of our players currently world class. We have a good collection of very good players, a lovely blend of players and a great coach. 

[jayfox26]

We dont have any world class players or any with the potential to be World class. That is what we want the "big clubs" to think anyway but its going to be getting very hard to hide the likes of Tielemans and Ndidi. 

[Babylon]

Just now, Muzzy_Larsson said:

My criteria is less stringent than this but for the purposes of the thread here is Sir Alex Ferguson's interpretation of world class.

 

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/10001297/sir-alex-ferguson-i-only-ever-had-four-world-class-players-at-manchester-united

Yeah but he's a dick leaving out players because he doesn't particularly like them. Roy Keane was f'ing unreal and performed consistently at Champions League level. 

[Ric Flair]

2 minutes ago, Muzzy_Larsson said:

My criteria is less stringent than this but for the purposes of the thread here is Sir Alex Ferguson's interpretation of world class.

 

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/10001297/sir-alex-ferguson-i-only-ever-had-four-world-class-players-at-manchester-united

Absolute nonsensical rubbish. 

[LC/FC]

1 minute ago, Babylon said:

Yeah but he's a dick leaving out players because he doesn't particularly like them. Roy Keane was f'ing unreal and performed consistently at Champions League level. 

Schmeichel, Staam, Van Nistelrooy... So many top players he doesn't include because he fell out with them.

[Muzzy_Larsson]

1 minute ago, Ric Flair said:

I get what you're saying and to cement yourself as world class you have to do it over a sustained period at the highest level. The Champions League is supposedly the highest level but its not the be all and end all.

 

Let's look at Tielemans for example. Leicester have been in the top 4 since pretty much the start of 2019/20 except for 1 week (the last bloody week of the 2019/20 when it mattered) he's also now the first name on the team sheet for arguably one of the top 3 nations in the world. He's actually forced Martinez to play De Bruyne in a slightly different position due to how good Tielemans has been for Belgium.

 

Anyway, for nearly 2 seasons now we have been one of the best teams in the country and backed it up. Tielemans should honestly be in consideration for the PFA POTY if the season continues how it looks to be ending. I'd put him in that world class bracket. 

I'm not disagreeing with your logic mate, like I said it's subjective and I'm not claiming my gauge is the correct one. Like I said in my mind though, you need to be showing your class against the very best in the world season in and season out, winning trophies, etc. It was only this time last year Tielemans was getting battered by a lot on here, undeservedly so right enough. Tielemans with the national team is a good point, should he win the Euros or take that tournament by storm then there's a strong case to make for him being world class, even based on my criteria.

[Deeg67]

Ricardo, pre-injury, is the first name on the list and was our clear best player.  Tielemans, Evans.  Vardy was but probably isn't any longer.  Ndidi is a tough call because he's great at a very specific skill set, but you don't see players like him starting for the really big clubs typically,  Barnes and Maddison might get there eventually, as might Cags and Fofana.  Praet and Castagne are pretty close.

[Muzzy_Larsson]

4 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Can't agree that you can somehow only be considered "world class" if you are mixing it in the champions league. There are enough good teams in this league to measure a players performances against. Kante for instance it was blindingly obvious how good he was, I don't think he put in a performance lower than a 9/10 more than once or twice in a season, and they were probably 8's. To say, sorry mate you're not world class as you didn't play against Shakhtar Donetsk, seems a bit unfair. 

 

Not that I consider any of our players currently world class. We have a good collection of very good players, a lovely blend of players and a great coach. 

It's subjective mate, that's my point, it doesn't make your notion of what world class is any more accurrate than mine, or vice versa. That's why I posted Sir Alex Ferguson's measure of it, that's even more stringent again.

[Col city fan]

For me, being ‘world class’ means simply ‘who at present would get into the World 11 team’?

This is if you see ‘world class’ as being contemporary (who is World Class at the moment)?

 

Therefore, Ndidi and Tielemans are the two I’d pick. I don’t know of any other players who presently are as good in their respective positions as they are. I think they’d be in a World 11 team at the moment.

 

The other potential one for me would be Kasper. What other keepers at the moment would you pick over Kasper?