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foxfanazer

World class

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For me, a world class player is one who steps up and produces the pivotal moments in massive games. Off the top of my head,  ZZ performance n the champion/World Cup finals, Berkamp’s goal against Argentina and Gerrard’s FA cup final performance against West Ham spring to mind. 
 

Youri’s performance yesterday felt a bit similar. At 1-1, the match could of gone pearshape. His goal and determination was pivotal. 

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32 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said:

It's all very subjective really isn’t it and depends on our own standards of what we personally think of as world class. Personally, in recent times I could only consider Cambiasso and Kante as in that bracket. Vardy has been very good but still just under the bar or perhaps borderline for me. As for Tielemans, for me, absolutely nowhere near as yet. He's an extremely promising young player and may be on his way there but he's not there yet. Yes, he can make the odd brilliant or even world class pass in a game but he's hardly a Pirlo or Cambiasso! He still, for a supposed world class player, gives the ball away too cheaply at times and can go missing for large parts of the game and be uninfluential. Sometimes,  because we really like a player we can see or imagine things that aren't really there. Is that a bit harsh? No, I don't think so if you're judging him by the highest world class standards. He's an absolutely brilliant young prospect learning his trade and getting better by the minute. Young players of his age are rarely world class, the only two I can think of approaching that at the moment are Mbappe and Harland.

Good post this, and I agree, it is so subjective. People who enjoy seeing fast attacks and goals will be more inclined to say Vardy or Barnes are our best players. People who appreciate positioning and technique and influence on a game will be more likely to appreciate Youri, Ndidi and Cags. I can't agree with you that Cambiasso was ever a better player than Youri, Pirlo OK that's a fair shout. I do see Youri as already world class but take your point and as you said, it's an opinion and can never be 'fact'. For instance, I don't believe Mbappé is world class which is an unpopular opinion but how do you prove otherwise?

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I am aware that this slightly different, but would any of our players be an automatic choice in a World XI decided by non Leicester fans. I think we all look at our own players slightly biased, but when other fans from top European teams start saying they would love Tielemans, NDidi, Fofana etc in their teams, then you realise how good they are.

For me, Kante was and is world class and could play for any top club in Europe. Mahrez maybe the same. Of our current players, realistically, Tielemans, Ndidi and Fofana have the potential. Vardy a a few seasons ago too, maybe.

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1 hour ago, Col city fan said:

I’ll probs get slaughtered for this but Cambiasso is a prime example.

Cambiasso was ‘world class’ for years. But at Leicester he was miles off being world class. He left Inter because he wasn’t going to be getting into their side and was pretty much ever present in a Leicester team that was rooted at the base of the Prem for 3 quarters of a season.

He would have never gotten into a World 11 whilst at Leicester. 
So world class is a transient thing I think. And I maintain, given that definition, both Wilf and Youri are presently ‘world class’ imo

I fully accept in fairness, I was more on about a Leicester player at their best. Wilf for me is exceptional and about their I think and when thinking about midfielders accepting that they are different types, I'm thinking of players at their best like Pirlo, Iniesta, Xavi, Cambiasso etc. Wilf I can see, Tielemans not yet so. Any of the above for me would get picked over him every day of the week 'at this point in time', just as Cambiasso was on the wane when we got him, Tielemans is quickly on the way up. I think he'll get there and just hope it's with us. Another point would be that the above names could perform in different midfields but, at this stage of development, Tielemans foundered somewhat for me when Wilf wasn't present to allow him time to play. 

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53 minutes ago, Arriba Los Zorros said:

Good post this, and I agree, it is so subjective. People who enjoy seeing fast attacks and goals will be more inclined to say Vardy or Barnes are our best players. People who appreciate positioning and technique and influence on a game will be more likely to appreciate Youri, Ndidi and Cags. I can't agree with you that Cambiasso was ever a better player than Youri, Pirlo OK that's a fair shout. I do see Youri as already world class but take your point and as you said, it's an opinion and can never be 'fact'. For instance, I don't believe Mbappé is world class which is an unpopular opinion but how do you prove otherwise?

Absolutely agree and none of us should ever get hot under the collar over it either as that's what forums are for. This has to be one of the most popular and subjective types of topic and is in the same bracket as 'who was the best ever player? Maradona, Pele, Best, Ronaldo or Messi? There is no answer of course just opinion. Is Schmeichel our best goalkeeper? I'd say Banks or Shilton but, I'm never going to be right because we all judge by different criteria and personal bias. As a kid I saw Charlton, Law and Best at Filbert Street. Wonderful days, great memories and therefore some unintended personal bias perhaps. 

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3 hours ago, Greg2607 said:

i'd say none of our players are world class. that isn't a criticism of the players, this is the best squad i've known in 38 years of being alive.  But until we are seen as a team that compete regularly in the champions league and our players are competing / beating the better teams in the competition, then they are just very very good footballers. 

 

We don't see Barcelona, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich etc courting our players in general. We probably never will. 

 

Good point, but I think we will in the next 2 or 3 years. Usually it's the best teams in England who come after our talents, but we might just see Barca and other top top teams coming in for Ndidi and Fofana in the near future, especially as we'll be able to hold on to them for a year or two longer ourselves with European football.

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26 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said:

I fully accept in fairness, I was more on about a Leicester player at their best. Wilf for me is exceptional and about their I think and when thinking about midfielders accepting that they are different types, I'm thinking of players at their best like Pirlo, Iniesta, Xavi, Cambiasso etc. Wilf I can see, Tielemans not yet so. Any of the above for me would get picked over him every day of the week 'at this point in time', just as Cambiasso was on the wane when we got him, Tielemans is quickly on the way up. I think he'll get there and just hope it's with us. Another point would be that the above names could perform in different midfields but, at this stage of development, Tielemans foundered somewhat for me when Wilf wasn't present to allow him time to play. 

Completely agree. I’ve said time over that Tielemans needs ‘a Wilf’ to be able to do what he does. 
They are like peaches and cream innit

👌

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Current or previous players I'd say:

Banks

Shilton

Lineker

Mancini (fleetingly)

Cambiasso

Kante

Maybe Mahrez 

 

I would say Mancini and Cambiasso are the best ever players to pull on a Leicester shirt though they weren't at their peak with us as others have mentioned. Mahrez is incredibly gifted. Tielemans could go on to be the best of the lot. 

 

Edited by bovril
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4 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

Are there 3 better DCM's in the world than Ndidi? I'm honestly not sure there is and I'm hard pushed to find 3 better CM's than Tielemans this season. His lack of pace seemed to be the comfortable narrative as to why he was at Leicester but its almost vanished as an issue given how dominant he is in a deeper position where he doesn't get caught out. He's mind blowingly good.

DCM: Kimmich, Casimro, Goretzka,

 

CM: Modic, KDB, Kroos,  Goretzka, De Jong 

 

Off the top of my head, special mention Koopmeiners as I think he will be a top player.

 

I think Ndidi, Tielemans have to show it at the CL level for me and dominate against a few teams.

 

 

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I wonder what would have happened if this thread had appeared on 1st March?

 

Enjoy the win, enjoy the journey, enjoy the fact that we have the best squad we've ever had but we're getting carried away now.  We don't have world class players.

 

Very, very good players, yes.  World class?  No.  

 

 

 

Edited by murphy
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1 hour ago, volpeazzurro said:

Absolutely agree and none of us should ever get hot under the collar over it either as that's what forums are for. This has to be one of the most popular and subjective types of topic and is in the same bracket as 'who was the best ever player? Maradona, Pele, Best, Ronaldo or Messi? There is no answer of course just opinion. Is Schmeichel our best goalkeeper? I'd say Banks or Shilton but, I'm never going to be right because we all judge by different criteria and personal bias. As a kid I saw Charlton, Law and Best at Filbert Street. Wonderful days, great memories and therefore some unintended personal bias perhaps. 

Great post and self awareness. 🙂

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1 hour ago, coolhandfox said:

DCM: Kimmich, Casimro, Goretzka,

 

CM: Modic, KDB, Kroos,  Goretzka, De Jong 

 

Off the top of my head, special mention Koopmeiners as I think he will be a top player.

 

I think Ndidi, Tielemans have to show it at the CL level for me and dominate against a few teams.

 

 

Goretzka and Casimero??

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1 hour ago, coolhandfox said:

DCM: Kimmich, Casimro, Goretzka,

 

CM: Modic, KDB, Kroos,  Goretzka, De Jong 

 

Off the top of my head, special mention Koopmeiners as I think he will be a top player.

 

I think Ndidi, Tielemans have to show it at the CL level for me and dominate against a few teams.

 

 

Casimero is not better than Ndidi, he shits all over him. Real Madrid are pony as well in the last few seasons. I'll grant you Bayern have been a beast of a team.

 

Modric and Kroos massively on the decline and are part of Real's problems. 

 

Ndidi and Tielemans are in the top 3 best in the world in their position.

 

 

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The debate is a bit of a nonsense with everyone having a different opinion on what World Class means before we start!

 

ESPN do an annual "top 100" - last done in December 2020.

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/blog-espn-fc-united/story/4239858/fc-100-liverpoolbayern-dominateusmnt-stars-break-into-our-annual-ranking-of-soccers-best-players

This gives the 90 top players in the World (I believe its based on a global panel of experts) with 10 players in each of 9 positions and then 10 managers.

There is a real "love in" with "Rich 6" and the current European elite of Real Madrid, Barcelona, Athletico Madrid, PSG, Bayern Muchich, Juve with those 12 clubs making up the majority of slots.

Once you add in AC Milan, Inter Milan, Sevilla & Borussia Dortmund, there is little scope for others.

Ricardo is the only Leicester player to make it in. (But also Chilwell which would be based on Leicester's 19/20 season) (!)

 

I think this is a good external benchmark for the discussion, and I think a good argument can be made that to be World Class means being in the top 90 players in the World. Given the billions of people who play and number of leagues and clubs, if you're getting your name into lists like this, it means you should be competing on a Global scale, so I think this can be seen as a good approximation of Word Class.

We are only 3 months into 2021, but if we continue at the current level, I'd like to think we'll have at least 3-4 players in this list next year & we'll look back to this thread to see who has made it!

 

Personally, I'd think a top 50 would be a better definition for the real elite (taking the top 5 or 6 from each position), and could be seen to be say 4 teams with little to chose between them - this will be players that will be winning their national leagues, getting through to World Cup/CL semi-finals etc. Ricardo drops out of the ESPN list at this point.

 

I can also see the argument for a World starting 11 to be a definition of World Class.

 

Ferguson's comments seem to be based on being one of the top 3 or 4 players in the World and doing this on a consistent basis - which is a very narrow definition, but it is a view, and I can see where is @Muzzy_Larsson is coming from.

 

So maybe the thread needs to be "Which Leicester players would make it into a World XI?" or which would make it into a "World top 50", or "which Leicester players should be in the FC100?" but World Class its too subjective to ever get near to a consensus!

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1 hour ago, bovril said:

Current or previous players I'd say:

Banks

Shilton

Lineker

Mancini (fleetingly)

Cambiasso

Kante

Maybe Mahrez 

 

I would say Mancini and Cambiasso are the best ever players to pull on a Leicester shirt though they weren't at their peak with us as others have mentioned. Mahrez is incredibly gifted. Tielemans could go on to be the best of the lot. 

 

I wouldn’t say ‘maybe Mahrez’ personally

Mahrez is an absolutely exceptional footballer

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Just now, Col city fan said:

I wouldn’t say ‘maybe Mahrez’ personally

Mahrez is an absolutely exceptional footballer

He is gifted. I still don't know if I'd put him in the same category as the others at their peak (I know they are very different footballers), he's disappointed somewhat at Man City which I concede is not totally down to him and his abilities. 

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Just now, bovril said:

He is gifted. I still don't know if I'd put him in the same category as the others at their peak (I know they are very different footballers), he's disappointed somewhat at Man City which I concede is not totally down to him and his abilities. 

Again mate I think he’s flourishing at Man City now and is currently one of their best players.

If true, Real Madrid are wanting him I believe?

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5 hours ago, AKCJ said:

The definition I use for world class is if there was to be a 23 man squad, who would be in it.

 

I think Ndidi has the most viable shout to be included from our side. I think Kimmich gets into the starting 11 but it's between Ndidi and Casemiro for the bench.

 

That's how I define world class, a 22 man squad and who would be in it.

 

Players off the top of my head would be Messi, Ronaldo, Mbappe, De Bruyne. Lewandowski, Van Dijk, Neymar, etc all shoo ins. There's a third already mentioned so any of our players to get in is probably unlikely.

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5 hours ago, LC/FC said:

We are World class because there are hardly any other players I would have from other team's to strengthen our squad.

Yet our players are coveted and desired by all the other Top clubs and have been since Kante where we've sold 1 big player each year.

Not even Andros Townsend?

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Neuer, Oblak

 

Cancelo, Carvajal

 

VVD, Ramos, Marquinhos, Koulibaly

 

Robertson, Davies

 

Kimmich, Casemiro

 

Kroos, Verratti, De Bruyne, Fernandes

 

Salah, Mbappe, Neymar, Messi

 

Lewandowski, Ronaldo, Haaland

 

If we were being invaded by football playing Aliens that threatened to destroy the planet if humans couldn't beat them, this is the team I'd pick.

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