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foxfanazer

World class

By foxfanazer, in Leicester City Forum

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Finnegan

Finnegan

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World class is such an over used, purely subjective phrase that who really knows? 

 

With all respect to @Muzzy_Larsson I personally don't consider it to mean "best two or three in their position in the world" and I don't think many other people do, given how frequently its thrown about by both fans and pundits. 

 

When I hear world class I think of players that belong in the last eight of the Champions League, players you'd expect to see having an impact in a world cup semi final, etc. 

 

I don't see the term world class as being limited to just Messi, Ronaldo, Lewandowski, Mbappe, etc. 

 

For me, using attacking midfielders as an example, guys like Reus, Mahrez, Pedro, Willian, Bernardo Silva, Insigne, Leroy Sane etc these guys are or were world class at their peak. 

 

By that metric I'd say Tielemans, Ricardo, Vardy and Ndidi are comfortably. Vardy and Ndidi in particular are statistical animals, their finishing and tackling stats respectively are out of this world over the last five years. 

 

Madders, Barnes, JJ and Cags all possibly have the potential to be but I'd say it's Fofana that stands out the most as the best future candidate. 

 

Oh and I'd say that Evans definitely was in his prime, albeit that was before he came here. 

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davieG

davieG

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17 minutes ago, Muzzy_Larsson said:

guys who are and have been doing it consistently, in the latter stages of the champions league

That's almost impossible to achieve, currently at a side like Leicester plus there are teams that find it considerably easier to qualify for the CL

 

I think a player can still be world class without playing for a 'big' club in the CL or even winning trophies.

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Ric Flair

Ric Flair

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Just now, Muzzy_Larsson said:

I'm not disagreeing with your logic mate, like I said it's subjective and I'm not claiming my gauge is the correct one. Like I said in my mind though, you need to be showing your class against the very best in the world season in and season out, winning trophies, etc. It was only this time last year Tielemans was getting battered by a lot on here, undeservedly so right enough. Tielemans with the national team is a good point, should he win the Euros or take that tournament by storm then there's a strong case to make for him being world class, even based on my criteria.

This is where I think the gauge is flawed though. Casimero for example has been part of a pretty honking Real team now for a few years that haven't been impressive. It's always a tough debate as it really is subjective and I don't like to go along with the party line which is self serving for the big clubs only. 

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martyn

martyn

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Posted (edited)

Ndidi is the only one I'm sure of right now.

 

Vardy and Ricardo at peak level probably were consistently good enough to be considered world class without being laughed at.

 

Fofana will get there.

 

Tielemans could get there.

 

Nobody else is close to that level yet.

 

Edited by martyn
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Babylon

Babylon

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4 minutes ago, Muzzy_Larsson said:

It's subjective mate, that's my point, it doesn't make your notion of what world class is any more accurrate than mine, or vice versa. That's why I posted Sir Alex Ferguson's measure of it, that's even more stringent again.

How about people just use the dictionary definition "A person or thing among the best in the world". Ferguson is off his rocker, by his standards, there are probably currently no world class players. Which doesn't even make sense, as there are always world class players as it's whoever is the best at that time. 

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Muzzy_Larsson

Muzzy_Larsson

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3 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

This is where I think the gauge is flawed though. Casimero for example has been part of a pretty honking Real team now for a few years that haven't been impressive. It's always a tough debate as it really is subjective and I don't like to go along with the party line which is self serving for the big clubs only. 

Yeah on one hand you could say that, on the other, despite them nt being a vintage Madrid side they are in the last 8 of the champions league and still in with a shout of winning La Liga.

 

Going round in circles a bit but like you say it's a subjective thing, I just thing terms like world class, legends, etc gets thrown around a bit too easily nowadays hence my perhaps more strict criteria.

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Muzzy_Larsson

Muzzy_Larsson

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4 minutes ago, Babylon said:

How about people just use the dictionary definition "A person or thing among the best in the world". Ferguson is off his rocker, by his standards, there are probably currently no world class players. Which doesn't even make sense, as there are always world class players as it's whoever is the best at that time. 

There is no dictionary definiton even that is subjective lol

 

"Among the best in the world"

 

Among the best 2, among the best 10, among the best 100?

 

Your missing my point, like I said I'm not saying Ferguson is correct I'm using him as a high profile example of how subjective the term world class is and how it's precision can vary wildly depending on who you ask.

 

You seem to be taking this as a personal attack on the club or the players or whatever and it's not. Leicester are one of the best clubs in the world, with one of the best managers, with several young players who according to how I interpret it anyway could be very much world class. Exciting times!

Edited by Muzzy_Larsson
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Dahnsouff

Dahnsouff

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3 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

Are you thanking everyone, or am I getting singled out for no apparent reason?

You know your special HPF, stop showing off  :angry:

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HighPeakFox

HighPeakFox

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Just now, foxfanazer said:

Do you comment on every thread where you think the main topic 'doesn't matter'? But I'm used to it by now with your posts :thumbup:

I think you might have missed my point - I can't judge the right answer to your thread, therefore my answer is that we have a class team. 

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foxfanazer

foxfanazer

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1 minute ago, HighPeakFox said:

Thank you, and I expressed mine. Enjoy the sunshine and the buzz.

No sunshine here right now but the buzz is still in full force! Might even rewatch the game on I Player to keep myself topped up lol

 

Have a good day! 

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Bert

Bert

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16 minutes ago, martyn said:

Ndidi is the only one I'm sure of right now.

 

Vardy and Ricardo at peak level probably were consistently good enough to be considered world class without being laughed at.

 

Fofana will get there.

 

Tielemans could get there.

 

Nobody else is close to that level yet.

 

This is perhaps the fairest assessment of the situation for me. 

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Rusko187

Rusko187

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25 minutes ago, Muzzy_Larsson said:

Well that's the bones of my point, as much of a monster of a player as Ndidi is until he starts mixing it with the guys at the very top level of the game and replicating that frm consistently at Champions league level I don't think you can compare him to guys who are and have been doing it consistently, in the latter stages of the champions league, year in year out. He unquestionably has the ability to hit those heights though. Off the top of my head I'd give examples of the type of players who have been and are doing that are Kante (obviously even higher again with winning a world cup), Casemiro, Fabinho (understand he's had a poor season this year), Kimmich (probably the best RB and holding midfielder lol). In terms of ability and potential Ndidi is right up there but like I've been saying my gauge of world class goes beyond that. From my own club, in all my time of watching them I'd say I've only ever seen one player who was world class and that was Larsson, particularly in the year he won the European golden boot scoring 53 goals.

 

Like I was saying it all depends on how you define 'world class'.

I think I have to agree with you on this, Ndidi is probably our best player and most likely to be world class... but he needs to get in CL and prove his performances across all competitions consistently.

 

My logic for determining World Class is can that player walk into majority of the top clubs around the walk. Kante absolutely could, but can Ndidi? 

I do however think in time Fofana can go right to the top!

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Muzzy_Larsson

Muzzy_Larsson

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2 minutes ago, Rusko187 said:

I think I have to agree with you on this, Ndidi is probably our best player and most likely to be world class... but he needs to get in CL and prove his performances across all competitions consistently.

 

My logic for determining World Class is can that player walk into majority of the top clubs around the walk. Kante absolutely could, but can Ndidi? 

I do however think in time Fofana can go right to the top!

I actually forgot about Fofana but yeah for sure he certainly has the potential to be also.

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Muzzy_Larsson

Muzzy_Larsson

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32 minutes ago, LC/FC said:

A squad full of International Quality players isn't World Class? That's literally what World class is. The countries of the World playing each other in tournaments such as the World Cup.

And we're currently stacked full of Internationals.

Having no World class players meant twiddling your thumbs for 2 weeks during the International break and not checking results because our players aren't playing. We lose half the squad these days!

The Celtic squad is full of international players and we are shit, so as subjective as it is I don't think that's a valid interpretation of world class at all.

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Hack

Hack

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48 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Are there 3 better DCM's in the world than Ndidi? I'm honestly not sure there is and I'm hard pushed to find 3 better CM's than Tielemans this season. His lack of pace seemed to be the comfortable narrative as to why he was at Leicester but its almost vanished as an issue given how dominant he is in a deeper position where he doesn't get caught out. He's mind blowingly good.

For what it is worth in the world of sport,  Tom Brady was selected 60th in the NFL due to teams thinking he was to slow. 7 super bowls later he is the greatest to ever play that game. Tielemans is not fast but not slow either and what he is supposed to do for your team being the equivalent of a quarterback running the team on the pitch he is right up there in the world in that position,  no doubt.

 

Also my opinion is Soyuncu is clearly a world class CD.

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foxfanazer

foxfanazer

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Just now, Hack said:

For what it is worth in the world of sport,  Tom Brady was selected 60th in the NFL due to teams thinking he was to slow. 7 super bowls later he is the greatest to ever play that game. Tielemans is not fast but not slow either and what he is supposed to do for your team being the equivalent of a quarterback running the team on the pitch he is right up there in the world in that position,  no doubt.

 

Also my opinion is Soyuncu is clearly a world class CD.

Tielemans was just born to play football. Can see now why he was touted as a wonderkid at Anderlecht

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