STUHILL Posted 17 May 2021 Posted 17 May 2021 16 minutes ago, GingerrrFox said: I would rather our government pulled its finger out in relation to Palestine than worry about some of our no brains booing the players kneeling. You are always gonna have people who can barely string a coherent sentence together boo things they don’t understand, it’s impossible to change that. Boooooooo
ARM1968 Posted 17 May 2021 Posted 17 May 2021 4 minutes ago, Captain... said: Why do you think that? Because it’s inception was in the USA and it has become intrinsically linked to the Democrat party. Their anger and frustration was egged on to such an extent that we saw last summers riots and destruction in many US cities with the counterpoint of Trump as the reason. If you think it hasn’t been appropriated then you would be mistaken.
TrickyTrev Benjamin Posted 17 May 2021 Posted 17 May 2021 4 minutes ago, STUHILL said: We should never tie an extreme action of a few to a genuine peaceful action by others. This is the same for kneeling to show unity against racism. Those players kneeling should not be tied to the extreme actions of a few BLM activists who cross the line. This weekend was probably the worst for anti semitism behaviour since ww2 and its disgusting. Go on hamza Twitter in the comment under his pic lifting the cup. It’s vile some of the comments about Jewish people. Where is the outrage ? 1
Corky Posted 17 May 2021 Posted 17 May 2021 1 minute ago, Jimmy said: I do wonder how many players actually want to do this compared to how many feel they HAVE to do this, if there was a secret ballot I wonder what the outcome would be Clubs have done their own thing and asked the players. My view is that if the players want it to continue then it should. Booing it seems odd. 1
Captain... Posted 17 May 2021 Posted 17 May 2021 2 minutes ago, TrickyTrev Benjamin said: So what’s hamza and Wes connection to Palestine ? Only thing, I can genuinely think of is religion. It has no place on a football pitch and I don’t want this to turn into a Israel vs Palestine thing but at the moment it’s turning very anti Semitic and this weekend you had both leaders of both parties condemning it. Seeing as the conflict is deeply rooted on religion I would say that is enough. To send a message of support to the civilians of a country that is involved in a conflict is no bad thing. Support for one doesn't mean aggression for the other, everyone wants peace in that region, but those that are barriers to that peace are rarely the ones that are losing their lives. There have been civilian casualties on both sides, but it is the disproportionate nature of the casualties on the Palestinian side that means my greater sympathies go to the innocent civilians dying in Gaza. 1
Glorious Leicester Fan Posted 17 May 2021 Posted 17 May 2021 (edited) Personally, how anyone can get incensed by a footballer taking the knee is beyond me. Sadly, right wing nut jobs use it a proxy to express their broader world views. Then again, those who booed their own players, could simply voicing their criticism of the Frankfurt School. Edited 17 May 2021 by Glorious Leicester Fan
brucey Posted 17 May 2021 Posted 17 May 2021 Youri always holds out his fist when taking the knee, so I don't think he'll be very happy to hear the boos. Sounds like fans from both sides booed however, so it'll probably happen at loads of other clubs in midweek. It'll be picked up and discussed extensively by the media before it comes to our home game.
Captain... Posted 17 May 2021 Posted 17 May 2021 3 minutes ago, ARM1968 said: Because it’s inception was in the USA and it has become intrinsically linked to the Democrat party. Their anger and frustration was egged on to such an extent that we saw last summers riots and destruction in many US cities with the counterpoint of Trump as the reason. If you think it hasn’t been appropriated then you would be mistaken. I think people have tried to appropriate it and use it to create division, but none of that takes away from the simple statement. Black Lives Matter and that the gesture on the pitch is that there is no place for racism. The fact they have had to go to great lengths to say that this is not a political message just shows how easy it is for a simple message to be corrupted. Whatever anyone else has done, Black Lives Matter, there is no room for racism, we shouldn't need overpaid millionaires to tell us that, and it probably won't make a huge difference, but if it makes even a small difference it is worth it and should continue and we shouldn't allow people with an agenda turn this into something it's not. 2
STUHILL Posted 17 May 2021 Posted 17 May 2021 1 minute ago, TrickyTrev Benjamin said: This weekend was probably the worst for anti semitism behaviour since ww2 and its disgusting. Go on hamza Twitter in the comment under his pic lifting the cup. It’s vile some of the comments about Jewish people. Where is the outrage ? I don't dispute that. It's gross and disturbing, just like the attacks on asian people because of covid. My point was, what were Hamza's and Fofana's intentions. It was for unity and support. Tying them to atrocities caused by other people is not right. Not saying that is what you are doing, far from it, but they have their right to show that their thoughts are with their people in this horrifying time.
ARM1968 Posted 17 May 2021 Posted 17 May 2021 1 minute ago, Captain... said: I think people have tried to appropriate it and use it to create division, but none of that takes away from the simple statement. Black Lives Matter and that the gesture on the pitch is that there is no place for racism. The fact they have had to go to great lengths to say that this is not a political message just shows how easy it is for a simple message to be corrupted. Whatever anyone else has done, Black Lives Matter, there is no room for racism, we shouldn't need overpaid millionaires to tell us that, and it probably won't make a huge difference, but if it makes even a small difference it is worth it and should continue and we shouldn't allow people with an agenda turn this into something it's not. Most people have an agenda unfortunately. If you read my initial post on this I said it isn’t easy and that racism impacts people across the globe. It is anathema to me completely.
lifted*fox Posted 17 May 2021 Posted 17 May 2021 I hope it keeps rattling people's cages. If you're booing this then you're exactly the person it's aimed at; long may it continue and long may you have to face your internal issues with racism every time you see it happen before a game. Zero reason for anyone to be rattled by 10 seconds of people taking a knee to keep racism in the spotlight. Stop being racist and encourage others to stop being racist and people will stop having to kneel for the cause - it's that easy. 3
Captain... Posted 17 May 2021 Posted 17 May 2021 9 minutes ago, TrickyTrev Benjamin said: This weekend was probably the worst for anti semitism behaviour since ww2 and its disgusting. Go on hamza Twitter in the comment under his pic lifting the cup. It’s vile some of the comments about Jewish people. Where is the outrage ? It's sad to hear that, I tend to avoid Twitter, but hopefully the accounts making those comments will be held accountable and punished, but I won't hold my breath. Social media must do more because nothing good comes from allowing people a platform to be racist.
Hammo Posted 17 May 2021 Posted 17 May 2021 People who label anyone objecting to the 'taking the knee' gesture as 'racist' are just as narrow-minded and misguided as those who boo it out of hand. My own view is that while discrimination and bigotry obviously have no place in today's society, this gesture has become a nonsensical, divisive ritual that is only continuing because no one in authority dares to bring it to an end for fear of the (unjustified but inevitable) condemnation and vilification that would follow. The easy, safe option is to let it run and run, so, pitifully and powerlessly, it does... 2
Captain... Posted 17 May 2021 Posted 17 May 2021 1 minute ago, ARM1968 said: Most people have an agenda unfortunately. If you read my initial post on this I said it isn’t easy and that racism impacts people across the globe. It is anathema to me completely. Nothing personal, I just find it interesting how certain people can corrupt a simple message and how that corrupted message then spreads to make right minded people not feel comfortable supporting an anti racist movement.
Captain... Posted 17 May 2021 Posted 17 May 2021 3 minutes ago, Hammo said: People who label anyone objecting to the 'taking the knee' gesture as 'racist' are just as narrow-minded and misguided as those who boo it out of hand. My own view is that while discrimination and bigotry obviously have no place in today's society, this gesture has become a nonsensical, divisive ritual that is only continuing because no one in authority dares to bring it to an end for fear of the (unjustified but inevitable) condemnation and vilification that would follow. The easy, safe option is to let it run and run, so, pitifully and powerlessly, it does... The gesture means: Racism is bad If you are objecting to the gesture you are objecting to the message. The only people who could object to the message "racism is bad" are racists. There is scope for a whole nuanced discussion around public gestures from over paid man babies who are normally as politically aware as a crisp packet, but that is not conveyed by someone shouting "boooooo!"
foxile5 Posted 17 May 2021 Posted 17 May 2021 There's politics attached to it which makes this contentious. I'd imagine most disagree with racism. But the political aspect allow those with racist sympathies a convenient loophole.
Fox96 Posted 17 May 2021 Posted 17 May 2021 Even if you don’t like it, it takes what.. 5 seconds? I find the people booing incredibly strange
Collymore Posted 17 May 2021 Posted 17 May 2021 I just think there are blurred lines with the actual taking of the knee as that specifically came about because of George Floyd and the early BLM movement seemed to centre on police brutality against black people. Now the commentators read from their crib sheet and say something like "they are taking the knee as they're against all forms of racism and discrimination" so maybe continuing it with another gesture might be more fitting.
Mickyblueeyes Posted 17 May 2021 Posted 17 May 2021 8 minutes ago, TrickyTrev Benjamin said: This weekend was probably the worst for anti semitism behaviour since ww2 and its disgusting. Go on hamza Twitter in the comment under his pic lifting the cup. It’s vile some of the comments about Jewish people. Where is the outrage ? I think there has been significant outrage on twitter itself. From plenty of different people from different backgrounds.
Captain... Posted 17 May 2021 Posted 17 May 2021 Just now, foxile5 said: There's politics attached to it which makes this contentious. I'd imagine most disagree with racism. But the political aspect allow those with racist sympathies a convenient loophole. There isn't, people are attaching politics to it, there is a whole video featuring big Wes saying it is not political. It is not political it is a simple message, racism is unacceptable. 1
Hammo Posted 17 May 2021 Posted 17 May 2021 2 minutes ago, Captain... said: The gesture means: Racism is bad If you are objecting to the gesture you are objecting to the message. The only people who could object to the message "racism is bad" are racists. There is scope for a whole nuanced discussion around public gestures from over paid man babies who are normally as politically aware as a crisp packet, but that is not conveyed by someone shouting "boooooo!" I agree with your second paragraph, but I'm sorry, the first one is simplistic in the extreme and does not serve you well at all.
foxile5 Posted 17 May 2021 Posted 17 May 2021 1 minute ago, Captain... said: There isn't, people are attaching politics to it, there is a whole video featuring big Wes saying it is not political. It is not political it is a simple message, racism is unacceptable. The movement, the gesture, stems from America, Colin Kapernick was the beginning of 'taking a knee' which he did through the American anthem. Whilst his intentions were that of Anti Racism it was certainly a gesture intended to comment at the political landscape of America. His wasn't a gesture to 'raise awareness' of racism. It was an intentional stand (no pun intended) against the identity of America.
STUHILL Posted 17 May 2021 Posted 17 May 2021 1 minute ago, Hammo said: People who label anyone objecting to the 'taking the knee' gesture as 'racist' are just as narrow-minded and misguided as those who boo it out of hand. My own view is that while discrimination and bigotry obviously have no place in today's society, this gesture has become a nonsensical, divisive ritual that is only continuing because no one in authority dares to bring it to an end for fear of the (unjustified but inevitable) condemnation and vilification that would follow. The easy, safe option is to let it run and run, so, pitifully and powerlessly, it does... I would just carefully counter this by saying maybe if we asked what it meant specifically to Tielemans, or any other of our players that may have been impacted by racism, then they may strongly disagree with calling it 'nonsensical' and perhaps it means a lot more to those individual players and their families, than we will ever know. At the end of the day, the gesture is based on unity against racism. People can try and make it into something political or dilute it, but that is the absolute bedrock of what it stands for and that should be supported, or at the very least not disparaged. 3
Captain... Posted 17 May 2021 Posted 17 May 2021 2 minutes ago, Hammo said: I agree with your second paragraph, but I'm sorry, the first one is simplistic in the extreme and does not serve you well at all. But it is simple. Racism is wrong and will not be accepted! If I say that and someone says "Boooo!" Then they are objecting to me saying that, the only logical inference from that is that they don't think racism is wrong and it is acceptable, and the people who think that are racists.
ARM1968 Posted 17 May 2021 Posted 17 May 2021 15 minutes ago, Captain... said: Nothing personal, I just find it interesting how certain people can corrupt a simple message and how that corrupted message then spreads to make right minded people not feel comfortable supporting an anti racist movement. That is a bit personal. I suggest you do some research into BLM, it’s supporters, it’s nominal leadership, some of the politicians backing it. It has been corrupted. If you’re talking about the actual ethos behind it and the purity of a simple message then you will note that I am in agreement.
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