UK to bake in 33C amid extreme heat warning

[leicsmac]

Just now, Otis said:

 

Oh please, stop it now.

 

9:20am Is daylight hours and 12c is nothing unusual. 

 

Or would you rather it be freezing cold and kill off the vulnerable. 

A lot of vulnerable people are going to be killed if the current path continues. They just won't be in the UK.

 

At the start, anyway.

[Soup]

8 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

A lot of vulnerable people are going to be killed if the current path continues. They just won't be in the UK.

 

At the start, anyway.

May I ask when this will happen?

[Otis]

11 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

A lot of vulnerable people are going to be killed if the current path continues. They just won't be in the UK.

 

At the start, anyway.

Cold weather kills more than hot weather. 

 

What is your suggestion, how are these deaths prevented?

[dsr-burnley]

1 hour ago, foxile5 said:

Nobody is that worried about it - certainly not as worried as we should be.

 

It was freezing this time 2 years ago. On the 6th of November it dipped below 0 degrees. It's balmy now. I got sweaty wearing a coat today. 

 

In two more years, if we don't do anything, what is this going to look like? It's going to become an ecological disaster. 

That's weather, not climate. 

[Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot]

55 minutes ago, Otis said:

 

Oh please, stop it now.

 

9:20am Is daylight hours and 12c is nothing unusual. 

 

Or would you rather it be freezing cold and kill off the vulnerable. 

I'm not wading in to any debates just stating I found it strange how warm the sun was on my neck for this time of year. 

[rachhere]

3 hours ago, Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot said:

Sun was out on my way to work this morning around 9 20 and it was pretty damn warm. Approaching the middle of November, crazy. 

Been out and about the past two days and my coat has remained in my bag the whole time.  

[foxile5]

2 hours ago, dsr-burnley said:

That's weather, not climate. 

I'm fairly to see such a distinct difference here. One implies the other. 

[yorkie1999]

23 minutes ago, foxile5 said:

I'm fairly to see such a distinct difference here. One implies the other. 

Weather is "it's warm this november" climate is " i think i need to invest in a villa in skeggy"

[Parafox]

5 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Weather is "it's warm this november" climate is " i think i need to invest in a villa in skeggy"

Whuutt?

 

Is the weather not affected by the climate, then?

 

It's warm in November because of the changes in climate. It rains for days on end in India causing fatal mass flooding. That's not because it's "the weather".

 

Why do you think we had several days of 38-40 deg in the summer? Just "the weather".

 

Jeez, the ignorance of some people, in particular in your final sentence.

[Parafox]

2 hours ago, rachhere said:

Been out and about the past two days and my coat has remained in my bag the whole time.  

 

11 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Weather is "it's warm this november" climate is " i think i need to invest in a villa in skeggy"

It's either a shite coat or it's "the weather",

 

Were you in Skeggy looking for a villa?

[Guest Umbungo78]

5 hours ago, foxile5 said:

Nobody is that worried about it - certainly not as worried as we should be.

 

It was freezing this time 2 years ago. On the 6th of November it dipped below 0 degrees. It's balmy now. I got sweaty wearing a coat today. 

 

In two more years, if we don't do anything, what is this going to look like? It's going to become an ecological disaster. 

In 2014 I flew to Gambia around this time and it was warmer than today......minus 5 a couple of week's later though 

[Captain...]

1 hour ago, Parafox said:

Whuutt?

 

Is the weather not affected by the climate, then?

 

It's warm in November because of the changes in climate. It rains for days on end in India causing fatal mass flooding. That's not because it's "the weather".

 

Why do you think we had several days of 38-40 deg in the summer? Just "the weather".

 

Jeez, the ignorance of some people, in particular in your final sentence.

I think he means weather is just natural variations you've always had a few chilly days in June and warm days in November. Today being warm is just an indication of weather, it's a one off day. Climate is that November is on average 1 degree hotter than 10 years ago and that trend is for it to keep rising.

[rachhere]

1 hour ago, Parafox said:

 

It's either a shite coat or it's "the weather",

 

Were you in Skeggy looking for a villa?

Ha! Nope, just hanging out in the west mids!

[dsr-burnley]

5 hours ago, foxile5 said:

I'm fairly to see such a distinct difference here. One implies the other. 

Weather is supposed to be variable.  OK, so November 6th is a warm day this year.  If November 6th 2023 is freezing, does that mean that global warming has ceased and an ice age is coming? 

[leicsmac]

8 hours ago, Soup said:

May I ask when this will happen?

It already is, through floods, storms and increased heatwaves.

 

https://www.who.int/europe/news/item/07-11-2022-statement---climate-change-is-already-killing-us--but-strong-action-now-can-prevent-more-deaths

 

And the increasing temperatures will not only lead to increased incidences of those floods, storms and heatwaves, but also famine due to it being much more difficult to raise the needed amount of crops:

 

https://psr.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/climate-change-and-famine.pdf

 

It stands to reason that such famine and other assorted consequences will result in more excess deaths than the world is experiencing at present, especially when considering the social upheaval it will also cause.

 

 

8 hours ago, Otis said:

Cold weather kills more than hot weather. 

 

What is your suggestion, how are these deaths prevented?

That seems to be a matter of debate depending on location:

 

https://www.wunderground.com/cat6/Which-Kills-More-People-Extreme-Heat-or-Extreme-Cold

 

But assuming it's true worldwide at the present time for a moment, it is a fact that more people live in areas vulnerable to the effects of extreme heat (not just directly, indirectly through the aforementioned famines and the like). When temperatures go up even more, the balance will shift.

 

As for preventing those deaths? Try our damndest, through whatever means necessary, to keep the average global temperature increase below 2 degrees C compared to the 1850 baseline through adoption and implementation of new ways to generate energy (primarily) and for transportation (secondarily). It will cost - and lives are already being lost - but another simple truth is that the consequences of not taking action will be far higher than any cost of implementation, it's just further down the road so people might figure they can disregard it.

 

 

8 hours ago, dsr-burnley said:

That's weather, not climate. 

 

5 hours ago, foxile5 said:

I'm fairly to see such a distinct difference here. One implies the other. 

Yeah. Average global temperatures have a massive effect on localised weather.

 

12 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

Weather is supposed to be variable.  OK, so November 6th is a warm day this year.  If November 6th 2023 is freezing, does that mean that global warming has ceased and an ice age is coming? 

Variable within a margin dictated by global temperatures, among other things. Drastically hot days and weeks won't be an inevitability if those temperatures go up, but they will be much, much more likely, which will have a multitude of knock-on effects.

[dsr-burnley]

17 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Yeah. Average global temperatures have a massive effect on localised weather.

 

Variable within a margin dictated by global temperatures, among other things. Drastically hot days and weeks won't be an inevitability if those temperatures go up, but they will be much, much more likely, which will have a multitude of knock-on effects.

Yes.  But my point is that when you are looking for signs that the world is or is not getting warmer, a statement that November 6th was warm in 2020 and cold in 2022 (or the other way round) is not it.  It provides no evidence at all.

[leicsmac]

37 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

Yes.  But my point is that when you are looking for signs that the world is or is not getting warmer, a statement that November 6th was warm in 2020 and cold in 2022 (or the other way round) is not it.  It provides no evidence at all.

Without additional context, I would agree. That additional context has now been provided.

[yorkie1999]

5 hours ago, Captain... said:

I think he means weather is just natural variations you've always had a few chilly days in June and warm days in November. Today being warm is just an indication of weather, it's a one off day. Climate is that November is on average 1 degree hotter than 10 years ago and that trend is for it to keep rising.

Yes. Not hard is it

[yorkie1999]

7 hours ago, Parafox said:

Whuutt?

 

Is the weather not affected by the climate, then?

 

It's warm in November because of the changes in climate. It rains for days on end in India causing fatal mass flooding. That's not because it's "the weather".

 

Why do you think we had several days of 38-40 deg in the summer? Just "the weather".

 

Jeez, the ignorance of some people, in particular in your final sentence.

Well it’s not ignorant is it, it’s an anecdote as in, historically you wouldn’t invest in a villa in skeggy would you, but it might be a wise investment if the world heats up by a couple of degrees, and yes, the weather is obviously affected by the climate, but the worlds climate cannot be measured on a few weeks in summer. For all you know it might snow at Christmas 2023, and if it does, what you gonna rant about then?

[leicsmac]

38 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Well it’s not ignorant is it, it’s an anecdote as in, historically you wouldn’t invest in a villa in skeggy would you, but it might be a wise investment if the world heats up by a couple of degrees, and yes, the weather is obviously affected by the climate, but the worlds climate cannot be measured on a few weeks in summer. For all you know it might snow at Christmas 2023, and if it does, what you gonna rant about then?

...would this villa in skeggy look good when there are up to a billion people at risk elsewhere under the conditions that would allow for it?

 

I suppose to some, it wouldn't bother them overmuch.

[st albans fox]

2 hours ago, leicsmac said:

...would this villa in skeggy look good when there are up to a billion people at risk elsewhere under the conditions that would allow for it?

 

I suppose to some, it wouldn't bother them overmuch.

the villa in skeggy was used to illustrate a climate v weather point.   And I would say that global suffering due to the onset of climate change should not affect whether someone decides to build one or buy one in any case. 
 

there is an irony that for decades, the weather in the U.K. has been a global standing joke.  And now, global warming will mean that we will become a place that tourists choose to come to , that people want to emigrate to - and all because of our climate. 
 

now that irony in no way should be weighed against the onset of human misery across swathes of the world. It’s not something we can control at that level. I’m certainly not going to to change how I live out my remaining years (assuming I’m not doing things that really make matters worse) because I’m lucky enough to live where I do.

[leicsmac]

3 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

the villa in skeggy was used to illustrate a climate v weather point.   And I would say that global suffering due to the onset of climate change should not affect whether someone decides to build one or buy one in any case. 
 

there is an irony that for decades, the weather in the U.K. has been a global standing joke.  And now, global warming will mean that we will become a place that tourists choose to come to , that people want to emigrate to - and all because of our climate. 
 

now that irony in no way should be weighed against the onset of human misery across swathes of the world. It’s not something we can control at that level. I’m certainly not going to to change how I live out my remaining years (assuming I’m not doing things that really make matters worse) because I’m lucky enough to live where I do.

Interesting.

 

May I ask why not?

 

and

 

Nor should it, but I would hope that you at least vote for policies and governments that might improve life in those places though global climate policy

 

In that order.

 

There are both altruistic and selfish arguments to help prevent these changes, and while one average person alone cannot control matters, unified action just might. It shouldn't be fatalistically considered "too big a problem".

 

 

 

 

[st albans fox]

2 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Interesting.

 

May I ask why not?

 

and

 

Nor should it, but I would hope that you at least vote for policies and governments that might improve life in those places though global climate policy

 

In that order.

 

There are both altruistic and selfish arguments to help prevent these changes, and while one average person alone cannot control matters, unified action just might. It shouldn't be fatalistically considered "too big a problem".

 

You answered your own question,  if my villa in skeggy is constructed with a view to its carbon footprint, both on construction and usage then I don’t see an issue. it will also provide for an additional dwelling in the future, in a land that will become ever over crowded due to its placement on the eastern edge of a vast ocean at a fortuitous latitude, given the rise in temps. 

[leicsmac]

50 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

You answered your own question,  if my villa in skeggy is constructed with a view to its carbon footprint, both on construction and usage then I don’t see an issue. it will also provide for an additional dwelling in the future, in a land that will become ever over crowded due to its placement on the eastern edge of a vast ocean at a fortuitous latitude, given the rise in temps. 

Fair enough.

 

Perhaps though, as well as this,  it might be better to work towards a future where such an outcome never happens. At least until we're certain all that death and suffering can no longer be avoided.

Edited 9 November 2022 by leicsmac

[st albans fox]

Just now, leicsmac said:

Fair enough.

 

Perhaps though, as well as this,  it might be better to work towards a future where such an outcome never happens.

I think we’re past that point - all we can do now is try and limit the damage. the ukraine situation has shown that even the future of the planet is affected by ‘events’.   Just hope that someone sorts out a commercial fusion option within the next fifteen years - hopefully the climate feedback loops which will be established by then will only sustain for a couple of decades before slowly drifting back towards where we currently are. 
 

have a great day! 
 

being less facetious, I do have a tiny hope that the planet will find a way to sort this out (or at least limit the worst of the affects geographically).  but it’s only a small chance.