UK to bake in 33C amid extreme heat warning

[Fazzer 7]

Quoting a piece in the Telegraph. China have pumped out more co2 in 8 years from 2013-20 than the UK has since the industrial revolution. That’s crazy isn’t it. 

[Trav Le Bleu]

5 minutes ago, Fazzer 7 said:

Quoting a piece in the Telegraph. China have pumped out more co2 in 8 years from 2013-20 than the UK has since the industrial revolution. That’s crazy isn’t it. 

Not when you consider how much bigger it is.

 

Even so, they undoubtedly are one of the biggest polluters.

[leicsmac]

7 minutes ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

Not when you consider how much bigger it is.

 

Even so, they undoubtedly are one of the biggest polluters.

Yep and yep.

 

And what's also yep is that pointing fingers at the Chinese without action taken by other nations isn't going to get stuff done and it's not like the effects of climate change will stop at borders to get their passport checked.

 

This is a global problem. It doesn't need to be about nations. Again.

[st albans fox]

45 minutes ago, Fazzer 7 said:

Quoting a piece in the Telegraph. China have pumped out more co2 in 8 years from 2013-20 than the UK has since the industrial revolution. That’s crazy isn’t it. 

They have been making a lot of stuff that the world uses - if they weren’t doing that then everyone else’s footprint would be larger because it would be made somewhere.  They are also a growing population regarding their own development and modernisation. The west modernised a century ago and more slowly. We can’t turn around to China and tell them that parts of their country have to stay antiquated. Same with India etc etc …..
 

You may not believe it but they are very engaged in reducing their footprint - but they won’t do it at the cost of parts of their country being left behind and their economy stagnating because they can’t manufacture what the world asks of them. 

[Bellend Sebastian]

 

1 minute ago, st albans fox said:

They have been making a lot of stuff that the world uses - if they weren’t doing that then everyone else’s footprint would be larger because it would be made somewhere.  They are also a growing population regarding their own development and modernisation. The west modernised a century ago and more slowly. We can’t turn around to China and tell them that parts of their country have to stay antiquated. Same with India etc etc …..
 

You may not believe it but they are very engaged in reducing their footprint - but they won’t do it at the cost of parts of their country being left behind and their economy stagnating because they can’t manufacture what the world asks of them. 

Was about to say almost exactly this, and add that, the same as everyone else, they're not immune from the effects of climate breakdown either

[leicsmac]

Honestly, the idea of "X nation is doing this much" is totally redundant as an argument in any case apart from to use as a convenient excuse to not do "your" bit. So when I hear it said, that's the obvious conclusion I almost always arrive at.

 

I wish it was used less often.

[RobHawk]

Maybe we should reframe the argument, imagine how much better off we as individuals (and therefore the whole economy) would be, if we were not so reliant on gas and oil. 

 

The two biggest inflation drivers over the past yeah have been utility bills and petrol. Take that reliance away in a clean renewable manner and the whole country would win. 

 

I haven't looked but a bet Iceland aren't about to enter a deep recession like we are. 

[leicsmac]

7 minutes ago, RobHawk said:

Maybe we should reframe the argument, imagine how much better off we as individuals (and therefore the whole economy) would be, if we were not so reliant on gas and oil. 

 

The two biggest inflation drivers over the past yeah have been utility bills and petrol. Take that reliance away in a clean renewable manner and the whole country would win. 

 

I haven't looked but a bet Iceland aren't about to enter a deep recession like we are. 

I think folks are pushing the economic arguments already - or if they're not, then they should be.

 

Just as a suite of solutions is needed to sort this out, so a suite of arguments is needed to appeal to as many people as possible.

 

Personally I consider that rather secondary to the need of preserving a civilisation that needs money at all, but I also know that's just my take and lots of others think differently.

[kenny]

34 minutes ago, RobHawk said:

Maybe we should reframe the argument, imagine how much better off we as individuals (and therefore the whole economy) would be, if we were not so reliant on gas and oil. 

 

The two biggest inflation drivers over the past yeah have been utility bills and petrol. Take that reliance away in a clean renewable manner and the whole country would win. 

 

I haven't looked but a bet Iceland aren't about to enter a deep recession like we are. 

Iceland are at 8.3% inflation.

 

So there is more to it than just renewable heating and electricity sources.

 

Otherwise, you are correct that we should be doing all we can to reduce our reliance on gas. The chap that started the Eden project gave a great interview on LBC (5pm show) yesterday as they have just completed a 5km borehole to generate geothermal power.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/11/06/eden-projects-sir-tim-smit-need-stop-lecturing-people-climate/

 

[Trav Le Bleu]

2 hours ago, st albans fox said:

They have been making a lot of stuff that the world uses - if they weren’t doing that then everyone else’s footprint would be larger because it would be made somewhere.  They are also a growing population regarding their own development and modernisation. The west modernised a century ago and more slowly. We can’t turn around to China and tell them that parts of their country have to stay antiquated. Same with India etc etc …..
 

You may not believe it but they are very engaged in reducing their footprint - but they won’t do it at the cost of parts of their country being left behind and their economy stagnating because they can’t manufacture what the world asks of them. 

Similar case with minimum wages, slavery, etc.

 

We pride ourselves in being a nation that pays a decent wage, everyone is free, etc, but we're all quite happy to buy stuff from countries where that isn't true, cos it's cheap.

[Fazzer 7]

@kenny How have you pasted a Telegraph link when it's behind a paywall?

[kenny]

2 minutes ago, Fazzer 7 said:

@kenny How have you pasted a Telegraph link when it's behind a paywall?

You can post the link, it just can't be read..... 

 

https://www.globalplayer.com/catchup/lbc/london/episodes/2zGqBNXR4pmoQcyntbUtg5wrtA/

 

Thats a better link to the interview from an hour in.

[BKLFox]

I imagine @Fazzer 7 was making more of a 'wow' comment as opposed to a point the finger & look its all their fault statement, regardless of the Telegraphs agenda if there was 1 not read the article.

 

"China have pumped out more co2 in 8 years from 2013-20 than the UK has since the industrial revolution"  "its crazy isn't it" .............& it is crazy if you think the UK Industrial revolution started around 1760 some 262yrs ago

 

As a side not sure what the size of China has anything to do with it as a quick search tells me that 94% of the population only live on around 43% of the total land mass, so the 57% remaining is affectively Greenfield & that Greenfield mass would fit the entire of UK into it many many many times.
 

But the original comment IS a wow regardless of countries named & if anything just highlights how quickly emissions are being ramped up in the recent past.

[bovril]

On 27/10/2022 at 21:55, FoxesDeb said:

You really must be on the wind up

he blows hot and cold

[leicsmac]

2 minutes ago, BKLFox said:

I imagine @Fazzer 7 was making more of a 'wow' comment as opposed to a point the finger & look its all their fault statement, regardless of the Telegraphs agenda if there was 1 not read the article.

 

"China have pumped out more co2 in 8 years from 2013-20 than the UK has since the industrial revolution"  "its crazy isn't it" .............& it is crazy if you think the UK Industrial revolution started around 1760 some 262yrs ago

 

As a side not sure what the size of China has anything to do with it as a quick search tells me that 94% of the population only live on around 43% of the total land mass, so the 57% remaining is affectively Greenfield & that Greenfield mass would fit the entire of UK into it many many many times.
 

But the original comment IS a wow regardless of countries named & if anything just highlights how quickly emissions are being ramped up in the recent past.

Given past interactions I an inclined to think otherwise and there probably is an agenda given the affiliation of the Telegraph, in that order. Pardon if that appears uncharitable.

 

But yes, rising emissions have been a longstanding problem that the climate science community have been trying to inform the public of for decades, but not enough people with power have listened. Perhaps now that there is enough money to be made enough powerful interests might listen before there is a really nasty outcome.

[Fazzer 7]

53 minutes ago, BKLFox said:

I imagine @Fazzer 7 was making more of a 'wow' comment as opposed to a point the finger & look its all their fault statement, regardless of the Telegraphs agenda if there was 1 not read the article.

 

"China have pumped out more co2 in 8 years from 2013-20 than the UK has since the industrial revolution"  "its crazy isn't it" .............& it is crazy if you think the UK Industrial revolution started around 1760 some 262yrs ago

 

As a side not sure what the size of China has anything to do with it as a quick search tells me that 94% of the population only live on around 43% of the total land mass, so the 57% remaining is affectively Greenfield & that Greenfield mass would fit the entire of UK into it many many many times.
 

But the original comment IS a wow regardless of countries named & if anything just highlights how quickly emissions are being ramped up in the recent past.

I can confirm it was wow from me. On the face of it I find it staggering.

[Fazzer 7]

45 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Given past interactions I an inclined to think otherwise and there probably is an agenda given the affiliation of the Telegraph, in that order. Pardon if that appears uncharitable.

 

But yes, rising emissions have been a longstanding problem that the climate science community have been trying to inform the public of for decades, but not enough people with power have listened. Perhaps now that there is enough money to be made enough powerful interests might listen before there is a really nasty outcome.

Given my past record on the subject I don't blame you for thinking that way. But on this occasion and taken headline value I was genuinely staggered.

[leicsmac]

1 minute ago, Fazzer 7 said:

Given my past record on the subject I don't blame you for thinking that way. But on this occasion and taken headline value I was genuinely staggered.

Fair enough, I'm happy to take the words at face value this time.

 

It certainly is a staggering statistic (as is the way emissions have gone up in total in recent times), and the Chinese need to do their bit to sort things out for future generations.

 

As does everyone else.

[Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot]

Sun was out on my way to work this morning around 9 20 and it was pretty damn warm. Approaching the middle of November, crazy. 

[Trav Le Bleu]

I have grasshoppers sunning themselves on a trellis in my front garden. They've been doing this for weeks, always moving about. Typically would have died off due to temperature in mid-October.

[RobHawk]

4 hours ago, kenny said:

Iceland are at 8.3% inflation.

 

So there is more to it than just renewable heating and electricity sources.

 

Otherwise, you are correct that we should be doing all we can to reduce our reliance on gas. The chap that started the Eden project gave a great interview on LBC (5pm show) yesterday as they have just completed a 5km borehole to generate geothermal power.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/11/06/eden-projects-sir-tim-smit-need-stop-lecturing-people-climate/

 

Fair enough, on second thoughts, I'd imagine that's more due to the vast amount of imports that they rely on from countries reliant on gas and oil but still a fair point I think. 

 

 

[yorkie1999]

50 minutes ago, Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot said:

Sun was out on my way to work this morning around 9 20 and it was pretty damn warm. Approaching the middle of November, crazy. 

We've got rid of all that air pollution and now there's nothing to reflect the sun back.

[foxile5]

1 hour ago, Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot said:

Sun was out on my way to work this morning around 9 20 and it was pretty damn warm. Approaching the middle of November, crazy. 

Nobody is that worried about it - certainly not as worried as we should be.

 

It was freezing this time 2 years ago. On the 6th of November it dipped below 0 degrees. It's balmy now. I got sweaty wearing a coat today. 

 

In two more years, if we don't do anything, what is this going to look like? It's going to become an ecological disaster. 

[leicsmac]

1 minute ago, foxile5 said:

Nobody is that worried about it - certainly not as worried as we should be.

 

It was freezing this time 2 years ago. On the 6th of November it dipped below 0 degrees. It's balmy now. I got sweaty wearing a coat today. 

 

In two more years, if we don't do anything, what is this going to look like? It's going to become an ecological disaster. 

The UK won't be the first to really feel the effects of this changing world.

 

It will be the equatorial regions, home to around a billion people. Imagine most of them without the ability to grow food or source enough potable water.

 

Of course, the knock-on effects will pivot on the UK as well as everywhere else and the climate effects themselves will catch up with the UK in the end.

 

And yeah, the clock is ticking and we, as a species, have wasted too much valuable time already.

[Otis]

1 hour ago, Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot said:

Sun was out on my way to work this morning around 9 20 and it was pretty damn warm. Approaching the middle of November, crazy. 

 

30 minutes ago, foxile5 said:

Nobody is that worried about it - certainly not as worried as we should be.

 

It was freezing this time 2 years ago. On the 6th of November it dipped below 0 degrees. It's balmy now. I got sweaty wearing a coat today. 

 

In two more years, if we don't do anything, what is this going to look like? It's going to become an ecological disaster. 

Oh please, stop it now.

 

9:20am Is daylight hours and 12c is nothing unusual. 

 

Or would you rather it be freezing cold and kill off the vulnerable.