UK to bake in 33C amid extreme heat warning

[rachhere]

19 minutes ago, kenny said:

But there are better ways of achieving energy efficiency than solar which is why it isn't done everywhere.

 

What you appear to be suggesting is that all new buildings should have all possible eco upgrades. This would render new buildings unviable financially and nothing would get built.

 

To add, my solar panels have generated 0.3kw today and will take 20 years to pay for themselves.

Aren't the materials used to make solar panels quite rare as well, and also take quite a lot of energy to manufacture, or has that improved these days? 

[Captain...]

8 minutes ago, kenny said:

But there are better ways of achieving energy efficiency than solar which is why it isn't done everywhere.

 

What you appear to be suggesting is that all new buildings should have all possible eco upgrades. This would render new buildings unviable financially and nothing would get built.

 

To add, my solar panels have generated 0.3kw today and will take 20 years to pay for themselves.

You seem to be suggesting that solar panels are not effective, they are, there are nearly 500 UK solar farms, instead of using large swathes of land for solar farms we have all this usable roof space that could be generating energy. We have new build developments being approved all the time and solar conversion will improve as technologies develop, it is not ridiculous to suggest we incorporate solar technology into new buildings. I really don't understand your objection.

 

Now if you said that the resources required to build solar panels are scarce and that it is not sensible to divert huge amounts of resources to a country where it rains all the time, instead of sending them to Equatorial countries where there is more sunshine you would have a point or if you said that the current environmental and financial cost of making solar panels vs the return in terms of energy in this country is not viable, especially in the North, then again I would concede you have a point.

 

However your objection seems to be you prefer other methods of energy efficiency, but energy efficiency is not the same as energy generation and that is where solar panels have the edge over the other options.

 

I will scale back my proposal to every new building should have a solar efficiency consultation and where it is an optimal situation for solar energy production then solar panels need to be included regardless of other energy efficiency features.

[Captain...]

8 minutes ago, rachhere said:

Aren't the materials used to make solar panels quite rare as well, and also take quite a lot of energy to manufacture, or has that improved these days? 

I also believed that, but a quick Google says they are quite common metals, obviously all metal extraction comes at a cost.

 

https://ratedpower.com/blog/rare-metals-photovoltaic/

 

It is interesting that some how this is believed when the opposite is true. It could be that we were confused with Electric Vehicles using rare metals, or it could be that there is deliberate misinformation out there. 

 

 

[leicsmac]

2 hours ago, st albans fox said:

double whammy is that every square km that is underwater can no longer absorb any co2 from the atmosphere…
 

We do need to be careful about highlighting the fact that it happens to be unusually warm in an area because it provides an easy retort for the sceptics. Weather patterns dictate that if it’s unseasonably warm in one area then it’s almost certainly unseasonably cold elsewhere. This is where climate diverges from weather.  Climate change appears to be increasing the buckles we see in the jet stream which create blocking patterns that force warmer air north (and colder air south) - reverse for our Aussie contributors. Of course as the climate slowly warms, the warmth available becomes warmer and the cold less so. The nett result is an overall increase in global temps. The environmental damage done by these blocks pumping the warmth into the polar regions is way more of a problem than the cold that heads into the more temperate zones which has a much larger area to dissipate into. 
 

This chart for today shows temps 5000 ft above sea level.   The blues show colder and the reds warmer (compared to 30 year averages).  What’s clear is that the hemisphere isn’t a swathe of red with the blues counterbalancing. look at the sharp contrast over the states. Hence my comment about noting how warm it is today in one place as offering proof that things are getting ever warmer. 
 

Absolutely, which is why I tried to illustrate what is happening now is an weather anomaly that is part of and generated by a general warming trend and those anomalies will only become more common in the future.

 

 

48 minutes ago, kenny said:

But there are better ways of achieving energy efficiency than solar which is why it isn't done everywhere.

 

What you appear to be suggesting is that all new buildings should have all possible eco upgrades. This would render new buildings unviable financially and nothing would get built.

 

To add, my solar panels have generated 0.3kw today and will take 20 years to pay for themselves.

... which is because the housing market and any other market subject to the "invisible hand" doesn't actually consider things in the long term either spatially or temporally.

 

In this particular matter, that is a crucial weakness that could end up being most costly. I can understand the argument, I just believe it to be fatally flawed, with good reason.

 

Utilising various renewables including solar when and where possible (including housing) and so taking away from emissions, even in what might be deemed a small way, makes sense.

 

Put simply, it would be better if ceasing reliance on fossil fuel emissions were a financial gain rather than loss, but as a species we have to do it even at a loss anyway, because if we don't, the loss is orders of magnitude higher down the road.

Edited 11 November 2022 by leicsmac

[kenny]

18 minutes ago, Captain... said:

You seem to be suggesting that solar panels are not effective, they are, there are nearly 500 UK solar farms, instead of using large swathes of land for solar farms we have all this usable roof space that could be generating energy. We have new build developments being approved all the time and solar conversion will improve as technologies develop, it is not ridiculous to suggest we incorporate solar technology into new buildings. I really don't understand your objection.

 

Now if you said that the resources required to build solar panels are scarce and that it is not sensible to divert huge amounts of resources to a country where it rains all the time, instead of sending them to Equatorial countries where there is more sunshine you would have a point or if you said that the current environmental and financial cost of making solar panels vs the return in terms of energy in this country is not viable, especially in the North, then again I would concede you have a point.

 

However your objection seems to be you prefer other methods of energy efficiency, but energy efficiency is not the same as energy generation and that is where solar panels have the edge over the other options.

 

I will scale back my proposal to every new building should have a solar efficiency consultation and where it is an optimal situation for solar energy production then solar panels need to be included regardless of other energy efficiency features.

No real objection to solar. The solar farm we are building in Morocco is a great idea.

 

Its just a bit pointless IMO, there are better ways of spending money on improving how buildings work to reduce their carbon footprint.

 

I have only worked on 1 solar farm and I know that it was never connected to the grid. I don't know how common that is.

[Captain...]

3 minutes ago, kenny said:

No real objection to solar. The solar farm we are building in Morocco is a great idea.

 

Its just a bit pointless IMO, there are better ways of spending money on improving how buildings work to reduce their carbon footprint.

 

I have only worked on 1 solar farm and I know that it was never connected to the grid. I don't know how common that is.

I don't know which one you worked on, but I was reading about the largest solar farm in the UK seems to solely serve a paper mill, so it might have been something like that, purpose built for a private firm. However you would still think it would feedback into the grid if it was viable, perhaps the volume of energy generated is to high to safely pump into the grid without proper controls.

 

Hopefully they have a sophisticated energy storage technology that means all captured energy is used. It is crazy when you look at the size of this solar farm that it still only serves 60% of the paper mills energy needs.

 

This is why I do think the domestic setting is where they are best deployed, direct usage then feedback into the grid. Lots of little clusters.

[leicsmac]

And, lest it be forgotten, the solution is a suite of technology including solar, wind, tidal and latter generation fission power, rather than just one of these options.

[SpacedX]

4 hours ago, st albans fox said:

double whammy is that every square km that is underwater can no longer absorb any co2 from the atmosphere…
 

We do need to be careful about highlighting the fact that it happens to be unusually warm in an area because it provides an easy retort for the sceptics. Weather patterns dictate that if it’s unseasonably warm in one area then it’s almost certainly unseasonably cold elsewhere. This is where climate diverges from weather.  Climate change appears to be increasing the buckles we see in the jet stream which create blocking patterns that force warmer air north (and colder air south) - reverse for our Aussie contributors. Of course as the climate slowly warms, the warmth available becomes warmer and the cold less so. The nett result is an overall increase in global temps. The environmental damage done by these blocks pumping the warmth into the polar regions is way more of a problem than the cold that heads into the more temperate zones which has a much larger area to dissipate into. 
 

This chart for today shows temps 5000 ft above sea level.   The blues show colder and the reds warmer (compared to 30 year averages).  What’s clear is that the hemisphere isn’t a swathe of red with the blues counterbalancing. look at the sharp contrast over the states. Hence my comment about noting how warm it is today in one place as offering proof that things are getting ever warmer. 
 

It's important to appreciate that however counter intuitive that it may seem, extreme cold is another consequence of global warming. 

[Izzy]

[leicsmac]

7 minutes ago, Izzy said:

Yep.

 

Get ready for more extremes of temperature to complain about either way.

[Jattdogg]

You lot safe over there with the thin film of snow?

 

We had 30cm last friday. Welcome to the extreme club.

 

Honestly, for those who got snow stay safe! I know your not as well equipped for winter driving  and snow removal as we are over here.

[Parafox]

6 minutes ago, Jattdogg said:

You lot safe over there with the thin film of snow?

 

We had 30cm last friday. Welcome to the extreme club.

 

Honestly, for those who got snow stay safe! I know your not as well equipped for winter driving  and snow removal as we are over here.

Yep.

 

We had about 2 cm overnight and it's already starting to melt. 

 

I can barely get out of my front door to wipe the snow off my car. It's dreadful. People driving really slowly on wet, (as if had just rained, wetness) gritted roads, "just in case". Folk being confined to their homes letting rubbish pile up for fear of going to the bins and not being able to get back... 

 

I don't know how we'll cope.

[Raj]

i miss the heat!!!

[Jattdogg]

28 minutes ago, Raj said:

i miss the heat!!!

Have some spicey saag tonight!