Re: ‘The Southampton Two’

[Finnegan]

1 minute ago, ttfn said:

100% right. It’s not an excuse for Soyuncu and it’s not an excuse for Vestergaard. They’ve both been as bad as each other this season. 
 

If our entire defensive stability is built on a 33 year old with a chronic foot injury we’ve probably got bigger issues than if the individuals partnering him are good enough. 

 

Bang on. Now that we (whisper it quietly) may have finally sorted out Vardy's succession, this season has made it blindingly obvious that finding the heir to Evans is our next major project.

[AKCJ]

Just now, Finnegan said:

 

Bang on. Now that we (whisper it quietly) may have finally sorted out Vardy's succession, this season has made it blindingly obvious that finding the heir to Evans is our next major project.

I think the Newcastle takeover has probably ****ed us over because i'm sure the club would have gone for Tarkowski next summer.

[eblair]

they may have both been signed as cover but they have now slipped so far down our pecking order it is alarming; the world's worst insurance policy:

 

vestegaard is probably 6th choice cb (think most people would rather n'didi there than him)

betrand is 5th choice lb (ricardo, castagne, justin, thomas) 

 

also be clear these two have replaced morgan & fuchs; who were infintely more reliable even last season. fuchs played 6 on the spin which we won a lot of around october

[Captain...]

1 hour ago, ttfn said:

Vestergaard is a 29 year old who has played in the Champions League and 30 times for Denmark. He should not need Jonny Evans next to him to make him look like a competent top flight centre back.

 

Thats not to say I agree with the criticism (I thought he had a great game against Man City that seems to have been forgotten) but the whole reason we signed him was to be a “plug-and-play” fix for our injury crisis at the start of the season. If we wanted somebody with potential who needed their hand holding then clearly we signed the wrong player.

It's a fair point, but it's not just Evans that's been injured a number of our defensive players have been injured at some point this season, including Verstergaard. A huge part of defending is organisation and understanding, Verstergaard was signed late in the window and has been in and out of an unsettled back line. There are very few plug and play defenders out there who can come in and be the defensive leader and organiser. I would hope to see a very different player alongside Evans. Of course he's been disappointing so far, but the whole defensive unit has been largely poor so I don't think it's fair to write him off just yet.

[AKCJ]

4 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

I'll repeat, I expect my squad players to come in and not gift goals left, right and centre. If that's the benchmark of a squad player for a team that finished 5th 2 seasons on the bounce and the current FA Cup winners then I'm perturbed. He isn't fit to lace Morgan or Fuchs boots. Don't recall either of them gifting the opposition a goal every time they came in, under Rodgers they would be out in the wilderness for months and then step in and be dependable. Maybe Bertrand and Vestergaard will do the same but it's not looking likely.

I think you're being extremely harsh and hyperbolic, personally. 

[Babylon]

12 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

This narrative that they were brought in as squad players and are playing more than they would if everyone's fit is a pretty pointless statement. Bit part squad players need to at the very least get the basics right otherwise what's the point of them? Nearly every game Vestergaard has played for us, whether from the start or a short cameo he's been an absolute liability. So squad player or not, I don't see what benefit to him? If that's the benchmark for a squad player I'd rather play with 10 men.

Bit part players are bit part players because they don't get things right all the time.

 

Bertrand is slightly different, he's a free signing to replace a very old player and just get us over the line until all our other players are fit. It doesn't make much sense to get anyone else other than that sort of player, as they'll end up never playing. Now you can argue, why not bring on Castagne and and leave Bertrand out, unless there is zero other option... but that's a mangers decision and no reason to moan at the player. 

 

Vertergaard, he cost money. But it was late in the day and we were desperate to get something done quickly going into the new season. He should be doing better, he and Rodgers will know that. But it's been less than 500 minutes of football, playing Franky in a defence that looks shaky as fook even without him. Hardly solid before he came on, and he's been playing with Soyuncu, who frankly has been a bigger calamity this season than he has. 

 

People say, oh we should have bought a younger player. Very easy to say, but they a) need to be available and b) fit the squad we have. I'm not sure a back line missing experience really needed another raw kid in the team or squad. 

[Ric Flair]

I think Soyuncu will be sold in the summer as there doesn't seem to be any talk of him being offered/signing a new deal. Replacing Evans is a curious one because there's a general belief that players need experience to be the leader in defence and although that's often the case its not always. 

 

Will be interesting to see how we do it, short term stop gap signings in their 30's might not be viable. 

[fox_up_north]

So do we prioritise CB next season then? Assuming Fofana doesn't get back to full fitness ever again. 

[An Away Move]

47 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Yeah it's best to just roll your eyes at it and move on. 

 

For as long as this place has existed there's been an ever increasing trend of entrenched extremes. 

 

I've bemoaned this no end of times and it's like pissing in the wind tbh. Pick a player in the squad and chances are that they've been both cruelly, unreasonably scapegoated and fanatically, blindly defended by two opposing groups at the same time. 

 

It's worth reminding yourself that just because they're vocal it doesn't make them the majority. 

 

As a caveat, I would also say that match days and match threads in particular are obviously going to be full of very reactionary, emotional people blowing off steam and that's something we should probably encourage. It can make match threads superficially quite toxic and intolerable if you choose to be angered by it (and advise trying to see the humour in it where possible) but you need to remember that these are highly invested people on an emotional roller-coaster. 

 

We're meant to love this club, we're meant to care passionately, we're some of the most obsessed Leicester fans in the world gathered here. We have millions of posts between us sharing our collective thoughts about the club day and night. This sort of fanaticism is celebrated when it's more harmless (such as twenty five brave souls travelling the width of the continent to go watch the game) but its derided when they get a bit too pent up in a match thread. 

 

End of the day, I'd rather people be in here venting their frustrations to fellow foxestalkers by swearing about every player in the squad than actually going out in to the real world and taking out their anger on the people around them. And if that seems like hyperbole, there's plenty of DV and ASB statistics related to the football being on the telly. 

This is a brilliant post. Best I’ve ever read in 7 years on the forum actually because it is persuasive enough for me to stop, look and see there’s the greater perspective that you so accurately mention. It will help me get less caught up in the Foxestalk and the madness of my own head when reading match day threads. Thank you. 

[An Sionnach]

All of our CBs are asked to play a line about ten yards from the half way line and with only Soyuncu having the speed to cover a fast break or through ball, there are bound to be problems.. Vestergaard , in particular will be exposed by that. This is Rodgers's game plan so it is no wonder we concede too many goals . I think we have to acknowledge our lack of pace and turning speed and set the line further back.

[Ric Flair]

25 minutes ago, pmcla26 said:

Who's gonna pay the money that we'd want though? And even though he's been poor so far this season, we need to remember just how good Cags is when on top of his game. 

I think he'll go for £40m

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

Can you imagine if we referred to signings like this in the Levein era - we’d have had the Hearts Six (or however many clowns we signed from them).

[An Away Move]

Just now, Wasyls Pec Deck said:

Can you imagine if we referred to signings like this in the Levein era - we’d have had the Hearts Six (or however many clowns we signed from them).

The right back - I’ve mentally blocked his name I think - was the worst Leicester player I’ve seen!

[Hales]

1 minute ago, Ric Flair said:

I think he'll go for £40m

Cags isn't going, clearly Youri is off. They are not going to sell Cags too

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

Just now, An Away Move said:

The right back - I’ve mentally blocked his name I think - was the worst Leicester player I’ve seen!

Maybury? I remember being one of the ‘better’ signings in that era (still dross by modern standards though)

[Ric Flair]

13 minutes ago, Hales said:

Cags isn't going, clearly Youri is off. They are not going to sell Cags too

I think we'll sell 3 1st team players in the summer. Tielemans, Soyuncu and Ricardo.

[An Away Move]

10 minutes ago, Wasyls Pec Deck said:

Maybury? I remember being one of the ‘better’ signings in that era (still dross by modern standards though)

I can’t remember his name. All I remember is that he was Scottish and nearly always hoofed the ball to the opposing team. I always compare what we have now to that team when feeling low about current performances and count my blessings. 

[Hales]

1 minute ago, Ric Flair said:

I think we'll sell 3 1st team players in the summer. Tielemans, Soyuncu and Ricardo.

😳😳😳😳😳🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺

 

 

[StanSP]

7 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

I think we'll sell 3 1st team players in the summer. Tielemans, Soyuncu and Ricardo.

That goes against our model totally. 1 max per summer. Unless we get absolutely ridiculous offers? 

[An Away Move]

3 minutes ago, StanSP said:

That goes against our model totally. 1 max per summer. Unless we get absolutely ridiculous offers? 

I’m worried about Newcastle in this respect. They’d probably want Fofana and Daka if they were smart about it rather than buying superstars straight from the off. 

[Finnegan]

2 minutes ago, StanSP said:

That goes against our model totally. 1 max per summer. Unless we get absolutely ridiculous offers? 

 

Depends what the contract situation is. If we have three guys refusing to extend and with a year left then we won't have much choice. 

 

I'm not sure how long the other two have left though? 

 

To be honest, I've made peace with the fact Tielemans is probably going in the summer (unless maybe we finish top four and/or win the Europa League) but I think the other two have seen their stock fallen a little. 

 

Soyuncu and Ricardo are in the same spot as Maddison. A year or so ago they were looking too good to spend their careers here, riding high, destined to use us as a stepping stone. But they've all had wobbles in form and fitness and haven't really recovered that spark. 

 

Soyuncu has been outed the most, for me, in that the last eighteen months have really shone a light on his ability under pressure. 

 

I'm not convinced any of them have a line of suitors in the form of bigger clubs than us, especially given how big the disparity is in wealth between the Premier League and Europe's other leagues these days. I'm not really sure where they go. Madders' biggest link is to Arsenal which is increasingly looking like a backwards step. 

 

I can see them going the way of Ndidi and ending up being here for years yet, despite some probable constant lingering rumours and longing gazes from rival fans. 

[coolhandfox]

1 hour ago, Ric Flair said:

I think we'll sell 3 1st team players in the summer. Tielemans, Soyuncu and Ricardo.

Not sure there will be a big queue for Soyuncu and Riccardo.

 

Both seem to have forgotten the most important job of a defender is to keep the ball out out your own net.

 

If everyone was fit, not sure either would get in our best 11 at the moment on current form. 

Edited 21 October 2021 by coolhandfox

[moore_94]

1 hour ago, Finnegan said:

 

Depends what the contract situation is. If we have three guys refusing to extend and with a year left then we won't have much choice. 

 

I'm not sure how long the other two have left though? 

 

To be honest, I've made peace with the fact Tielemans is probably going in the summer (unless maybe we finish top four and/or win the Europa League) but I think the other two have seen their stock fallen a little. 

 

Soyuncu and Ricardo are in the same spot as Maddison. A year or so ago they were looking too good to spend their careers here, riding high, destined to use us as a stepping stone. But they've all had wobbles in form and fitness and haven't really recovered that spark. 

 

Soyuncu has been outed the most, for me, in that the last eighteen months have really shone a light on his ability under pressure. 

 

I'm not convinced any of them have a line of suitors in the form of bigger clubs than us, especially given how big the disparity is in wealth between the Premier League and Europe's other leagues these days. I'm not really sure where they go. Madders' biggest link is to Arsenal which is increasingly looking like a backwards step. 

 

I can see them going the way of Ndidi and ending up being here for years yet, despite some probable constant lingering rumours and longing gazes from rival fans. 

Our 2023 contract list is pretty big, need to start getting some new contracts out otherwise summer 2022 and summer 2023 could see a lot of players leaving

 

2022: Jakupovic, Amartey, Lookman*

 

2023: Schmeichel, Bertrand, Evans, Mendy, Vardy, Pereira, Perez, Tielemans, Benkovic, Soyuncu, Choudhury

 

2024: Albrighton, Vestergaard, Ndidi, Maddison, Iheanacho, Justin, KDH, Thomas

 

2025: Ward, Castagne, Barnes, Fofana

 

2026: Soumare, Daka

Edited 21 October 2021 by moore_94

[JonnyBoy]

it is difficult not to criticise, they have cost us a lot of points when they have played this season. With Soyoncu and Evans playing it is worlds apart. When vestergaard came on yesterday with Bertrand we concede straight away 

[Ric Flair]

2 hours ago, StanSP said:

That goes against our model totally. 1 max per summer. Unless we get absolutely ridiculous offers? 

We don't let 1st team players in the early / mid twenties go in to their final year of their contract that we value massively. If Ricardo and Soyuncu won't sign new deals / we don't want them to sign new deals then they'll be sold, otherwise we get nothing for them.

 

I stand by my statement a few weeks ago that this team is about to embark on quite a transition, it's risky not to in my opinion.