English football's biggest underachievers

[Finnegan]

For me, any city / town with a professional club consistently in the top tier of English football should almost be discounted from this list. 

 

The likes of Leeds and Newcastle are products of their ownership and management, particularly in the world of modern football where having a billionaire benefactor can raise a village team to European football. 

 

The more interesting discussions are the ones like Plymouth, Bristol, Wakefield, etc that have never really had any impact or in some cases not a professional team at all. 

[Fox92]

9 hours ago, Izzy said:

I lived in Hull for a few years in the late 90's and got the impression they're mainly Rugby League fans first and foremost.

Never really met many football fans and no one seemed that arsed about it. Very weird place.

One of my mates is from Hull and used to go home and away, now only the odd game. I usually look out for their results because of him. Their attendance when in the PL is good, 20k+ or whatever the ground holds, but it drops off a bit when they're outside the PL. I agree many seem to be interested in Rugby first, probably similar to Wigan.

[Fox92]

19 minutes ago, Spudulike said:

I'm convinced that had Tottenham been based elsewhere in the country then their football status would've been the equivalent of a club such as Ipswich Town. 

Even though Spurs have not won the league since the early 60's, they've been fairly consistent with domestic trophies. Ipswich have a good history, better than rivals Norwich, but have now spent a lot of time outside the top flight.

 

The media still bang on about Leeds and Newcastle being big clubs, both of which not in London, and both have won less than Spurs in the last 20 years or so.

[BenTheFox]

Gloucester and Bath are obviously out and out rugby cities, but have either of them ever been represented in the football league? 

 

[Voll Blau]

15 hours ago, The People's Hero said:

I think I've remarked before that what I find really odd is that in my bowls club of 120 adult members, probably 80 being male, there are 5 Wolves fans. How has that happened? (2 Leicester, for the record). The overwhelmingly supported club at our bowls club would be Maidstone United or Liverpool.

Is that an age thing? Were these blokes kids when Wolves were good in the 50s?

[Spudulike]

6 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

Is that an age thing? Were these blokes kids when Wolves were good in the 50s?

I believe they received huge media attention back then as the first club to have floodlights and play euro competition. 

[Guest ttfn]

Bedford has a population of about 100,000 and is bigger than Watford and Burnley but whilst the latter two towns currently have top flight clubs, Bedford has never had a Football League club.

 

Not only that but certainly when I was growing up there wasn’t anything resembling a decent sized local club. There’s probably 4 Football League clubs within 30 miles but none of them are well supported - Luton get less than 10,000 on average in the Championship, MK Dons, Cambridge and Northampton all less than that in League One/Two.

[Voll Blau]

As mentioned re Northampton, the rugby element does have a lot to do with it and it's still a working class sport there.

 

Northamptonshire in general is also a pretty parochial kind of place and with a strong-ish non-league scene historically, you're never going to see anyone from Corby, Rushden, Kettering, Brackley etc rally round Northampton Town just because it's the team of the 'County Town'. Remember being in Spoons in the middle of Northampton a few years ago and 'FVCK KETTERING' was carved on a door in the gents there. Plus, we hoover up a decent proportion of football support from across Northants (certainly the northern half) too.

Edited 6 January 2022 by Voll Blau

[RoboFox]

1 hour ago, Voll Blau said:

As mentioned re Northampton, the rugby element does have a lot to do with it and it's still a working class sport there.

 

Northamptonshire in general is also a pretty parochial kind of place and with a strong-ish non-league scene historically, you're never going to see anyone from Corby, Rushden, Kettering, Brackley etc rally round Northampton Town just because it's team of the 'County Town'. Remember being in Spoons in the middle of Northampton a few years ago and 'FVCK KETTERING' was carved on a door in the gents there. Plus, we hoover up a decent proportion of football support from across Northants (certainly the northern half) too.

I went to school in North Northamptonshire and I was genuinely one of a handful of City supporters. I think I knew of only one person in my year (who was also from South Leics) which surprised me at the time. I mean, it was the 90s and we were yo-yo-ing at the time, and those that were into football usually favoured the successful teams of the era. I imagine that was probably the case with the rest of the county. 

 

I've spent quite a bit of time in the town over the years, and I've genuinely from memory never encountered a proper Cobblers supporter. It's bizarre. The increase in Citeh support is noticeable nowadays though. 

 

I agree about rugby, though. Similar to the South West, I think a lack of local football success mean people gravitate to it. 

[CosbehFox]

2 hours ago, BenTheFox said:

Gloucester and Bath are obviously out and out rugby cities, but have either of them ever been represented in the football league? 

 

Nope. I checked Bath recently. Bath City has hosted football league football but never played it 

[Arriba Los Zorros]

Norwich should have done better, huge huge catchment and no other teams for miles.

 

Southampton maybe? Often a top flight club but for a city that size with Portsmouth and Brighton for company you'd think they'd have achieved more.

 

Leeds - no brainer. Massive underachievers.

 

Birmingham City as others have said. Should be like an Everton and a PL mainstay.

 

Both Sheffield clubs and Bristol clubs, based purely on size of city.

 

Hull City. As above.

 

Gloucester City. How can a place that size be non league.

 

Lincoln City. Should be Championship not leagues 1 or 2.

 

As for overachievers... most clubs in the North West. Rochdale, Oldham, Bury (RIP), Macclesfield Town (RIP). Burnley, Blackburn, possibly Preston too. You can now add in Accrington Stanley, Fleetwood Town and Morecambe to the list. They all punch well above their weight given the competition in that area for fans and also all the rugby league! Impressive.

 

 

Edited 6 January 2022 by Arriba Los Zorros

[Paninistickers]

I wonder if a statistician couldn dentify the next upwardly mobile club?

 

Clearly there's been a shift over last 25 years away from the old northern Milltown type teams represented in the top tier (Oldham, Notts County, blackburn) towards more affluent southern towns; Brighton, Bournemouth, Reading. 

 

If i was an investor, I'd certainly look at Plymouth ( as someone has already mentioned). Get a Amex, Mad Stad style stadium and share with the Cornish Pirates Rugby (or Plymouth Albion rugby I suppose)....and a high standard of living in Devon and Cornwall to attract players

[Spudulike]

7 hours ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

Nope. I checked Bath recently. Bath City has hosted football league football but never played it 

I can remember a couple of trips to Twerton Park. First time I went in the seats with the Bristol Rovers fans as I'd done my back in. Bad move. The seats were so tight (I'm not a lardy arse, BTW) that I struggled to get in and out. Seems they are vertically challenged in those parts. 

[BenTheFox]

1 hour ago, Paninistickers said:

I wonder if a statistician couldn dentify the next upwardly mobile club?

 

Clearly there's been a shift over last 25 years away from the old northern Milltown type teams represented in the top tier (Oldham, Notts County, blackburn) towards more affluent southern towns; Brighton, Bournemouth, Reading. 

 

If i was an investor, I'd certainly look at Plymouth ( as someone has already mentioned). Get a Amex, Mad Stad style stadium and share with the Cornish Pirates Rugby (or Plymouth Albion rugby I suppose)....and a high standard of living in Devon and Cornwall to attract players

I mean Norwich have an enormous catchment area but I can't see anyone investing in them to make them a force. I may be completely wrong. My judgement is somewhat clouded by my overall negative opinion of East Anglia in that going there is never worth it. 

[BenTheFox]

That's another point actually, what are the factors that make the prospective owners buy one club over another? 

 

Like why did Sheikh Mansour buy Manchester City? They were playing in a new stadium and obviously Manchester as a city is already known globally (ironically that has a lot to do with their rivals). A couple of other things that spring to mind is that East Manchester was an absolute dive when they took over and it was an ideal opportunity for the ol' sportswashing, but also investing in a club based in the same city as Man United and surpassing them must be one hell of an ego trip. 

[pleatout]

7 hours ago, Arriba Los Zorros said:

 

 

As for overachievers... most clubs in the North West. Rochdale, Oldham, Bury (RIP), Macclesfield Town (RIP). Burnley, Blackburn, possibly Preston too. You can now add in Accrington Stanley, Fleetwood Town and Morecambe to the list. They all punch well above their weight given the competition in that area for fans and also all the rugby league! Impressive.

 

 

slightly off at a tangent but it always amazed me that between 1880 - 1920 ish  Blackburn had 2 teams plus Darwen, Nelson, Burnley & Accrington

[Arriba Los Zorros]

2 hours ago, BenTheFox said:

I mean Norwich have an enormous catchment area but I can't see anyone investing in them to make them a force. I may be completely wrong. My judgement is somewhat clouded by my overall negative opinion of East Anglia in that going there is never worth it. 

Whats wrong with East Anglia? Nice part of the country!

[Arriba Los Zorros]

1 hour ago, pleatout said:

slightly off at a tangent but it always amazed me that between 1880 - 1920 ish  Blackburn had 2 teams plus Darwen, Nelson, Burnley & Accrington

Does seem that all the Northern mill town sides were dominant in footballs early years, Preston, Blackburn, Burnley etc wonder why. maybe they were all still playing cricket and rugby down south.

[BenTheFox]

5 minutes ago, Arriba Los Zorros said:

Whats wrong with East Anglia? Nice part of the country!

I think it's shit. A pain in the arse to get to, dull and flat countryside and everything looks so dated. It's like going back thirty years. Easily the worst part of the country in my opinion. 

[Tuna]

Southport.

 

Over 50 years in the Football League and not been back, higher population than Accrington and Burnley.

 

Decent fanbase, stadium football league ready been yo-yoing between National League North and the National League since 2004.

Edited 6 January 2022 by Tuna

[Arriba Los Zorros]

7 minutes ago, BenTheFox said:

I think it's shit. A pain in the arse to get to, dull and flat countryside and everything looks so dated. It's like going back thirty years. Easily the worst part of the country in my opinion. 

Fair enough, beg to differ!! Depends what you're looking for really. I think West Mids is worst part of the country.

[BenTheFox]

15 minutes ago, Arriba Los Zorros said:

Does seem that all the Northern mill town sides were dominant in footballs early years, Preston, Blackburn, Burnley etc wonder why. maybe they were all still playing cricket and rugby down south.

I wonder if it had something to do with the players being fitter and more 'hardened' having worked in the traditional industries and perhaps having done more physically demanding work. Maybe a case of adding 2 and 2 and getting 5 though. 

[BenTheFox]

3 minutes ago, Arriba Los Zorros said:

Fair enough, beg to differ!! Depends what you're looking for really. I think West Mids is worst part of the country.

Yeah, I'm not keen on the West Midlands either, the accents make everything worse! At least it's well connected to the rest of the country. 

 

There are nice parts of East Anglia. Wells-next-the-sea is particularly nice and there are certainly far worse cities than Norwich. I think the drive to Norfolk clouds my perception of it. It's frustrating long given that actually isn't that far as the crow flies. 

[Arriba Los Zorros]

8 minutes ago, BenTheFox said:

I wonder if it had something to do with the players being fitter and more 'hardened' having worked in the traditional industries and perhaps having done more physically demanding work. Maybe a case of adding 2 and 2 and getting 5 though. 

Yeah could be that, hard northerners Vs the southern fairies, definitely seems the working class places dominated for quite a while.

[Arriba Los Zorros]

6 minutes ago, BenTheFox said:

Yeah, I'm not keen on the West Midlands either, the accents make everything worse! At least it's well connected to the rest of the country. 

 

There are nice parts of East Anglia. Wells-next-the-sea is particularly nice and there are certainly far worse cities than Norwich. I think the drive to Norfolk clouds my perception of it. It's frustrating long given that actually isn't that far as the crow flies. 

I agree with you that things are slower there but for me that's part of the charm it's a bit like Cornwall. Also I've always found the people in East Anglia to be very friendly on the whole. If you're looking for efficiency and opportunity it's definitely not the place to be though!