Cost of living crisis.

[Guest Lako42]

12 minutes ago, Tommy G said:

Looks like the leaks in the press are that the govt will cap the cost of trypical use at £2.5K with the £400 handout remaining, takes ave cost to £2k a year which is much more managable for most. Not sure until when, and to be paid via borrowing. Suspect this will cost more than the furlough scheme

And so more and more debt that we will have to pay whilst Energy producers rape us for every last penny. 

 

 

[ealingfox]

Where is the incentive to bring prices down if you're saying the taxpayer will pay whatever it costs later and the suppliers get to keep all their profit? This plan only works if some of the funding is raised by taxing their profits.

[Tommy G]

Trouble is it would have to be a serious windfall tax, even if its a decent windfall tax it will be minor in comparison in relation to the £100bn cost. Either way, if there is a tonne of help out there there will still be people that will moan about it. Thats life.

[kenny]

4 minutes ago, Tommy G said:

Trouble is it would have to be a serious windfall tax, even if its a decent windfall tax it will be minor in comparison in relation to the £100bn cost. Either way, if there is a tonne of help out there there will still be people that will moan about it. Thats life.

Doesn't sound like there will be any help for businesses.

 

No use having a high but manageable bill but you lose your job as the business you work for is no longer viable.

[ealingfox]

2 minutes ago, Tommy G said:

Trouble is it would have to be a serious windfall tax, even if its a decent windfall tax it will be minor in comparison in relation to the £100bn cost. Either way, if there is a tonne of help out there there will still be people that will moan about it. Thats life.

 

Well yes it should be a serious windfall tax, and why shouldn't it be?

[KrefelderFox666]

16 hours ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Im sure Edwina currie isn’t an actual person. Just a figment of our imagination to laugh at. On a serious I do have foil behind most of the radiators at home, from a company called ‘radflek’ - makes absolutely no noticeable difference 

 

1 hour ago, danny. said:

I put them on all the radiators at the last place. I was very excited and waited for the new efficiency and warmth. Also did absolutely nothing.

But the big question is, did it make an aesthetic difference? Forget cost saving for a moment.

[Tommy G]

1 minute ago, ealingfox said:

 

Well yes it should be a serious windfall tax, and why shouldn't it be?

I'm not saying it shouldn't be!

 

I'm pointing out its a bit of a drop in the ocean. A windfall tax won't entirely fund this, just a small proprtion

[Tommy G]

3 minutes ago, kenny said:

Doesn't sound like there will be any help for businesses.

 

No use having a high but manageable bill but you lose your job as the business you work for is no longer viable.

Agreed. Presume there will be something for businesses, just not announced yet.

[foxes1988]

30 minutes ago, Tommy G said:

I'm not saying it shouldn't be!

 

I'm pointing out its a bit of a drop in the ocean. A windfall tax won't entirely fund this, just a small proprtion

This is true but its still important that the oil/gas/energy companies help pay for it as well as the tax payer especially as their profits have only increased because of the crisis situation and not through business performance/strategy.

[Towelie]

So trickle up economics continues then - taking money away from the poor in taxes to pay energy suppliers.

 

They are using your money, to pay your bill and then making you pay it back too.

 

This is purely a further distribution of wealth to the rich.

[Leicester_Loyal]

Another short sighted policy rather than actual long term planning, as usual.

[yorkie1999]

3 hours ago, ealingfox said:

 

Well yes it should be a serious windfall tax, and why shouldn't it be?

A windfall tax only helps once, what the government should be doing is capping the profit. Shell doesn't really need to make £10 billion in profit for april to june (up from 7 billion from Jan to March) and likewise with British Gas (our gas), half year profit of 1.3 billion,  up from the previous of 240 million.

[dsr-burnley]

8 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

A windfall tax only helps once, what the government should be doing is capping the profit. Shell doesn't really need to make £10 billion in profit for april to june (up from 7 billion from Jan to March) and likewise with British Gas (our gas), half year profit of 1.3 billion,  up from the previous of 240 million.

British Gas's £1.3 billion is £2 per week per household in the UK.  Not really a difference-maker.  Even Shell, if their entire worldwide profit was taken from them as a windfall tax, it would make £400 difference to the average household for that quarter.  (And there would be very severe practical difficulties and collateral damage to telling Shell that their entire worldwide profits were taxed at 100% in the UK.)

 

The government does cap the profit.  That's what the much-talked about price cap is all about.  It's partly why so many companies went bust, because they got caught with too many fixed and/or capped contracts and they couldn't cope with the price rises.

[FoyleFox]

5 hours ago, kenny said:

Doesn't sound like there will be any help for businesses.

 

No use having a high but manageable bill but you lose your job as the business you work for is no longer viable.

Martin Lewis suggested they were looking at a cap introduction for business too.

 

Business can't begin to cover the increases they are being quoted, there was well-known chef speaking last week, his restaurant energy bill is £5k, increasing to £35k. That isn't sustainable.

[Parafox]

5 hours ago, KrefelderFox666 said:

 

But the big question is, did it make an aesthetic difference? Forget cost saving for a moment.

I remember back when I used to live at home and I'm talking over 30 years ago and my parents had a similar thing. Aesthetically and economically useless.

[Leicester_Loyal]

Kicking the can down the road for another few years.

 

Invest in other technologies.

[Parafox]

28 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

Kicking the can down the road for another few years.

 

Invest in other technologies.

The energy/CoL crisis solved in 2 sentences. 

Not saying I disagree but it's going to take more than a few years, plus the actual willingness of world gov's to actually do something meaningful and sustainable that's not going to be too financially expensive. In most economies, cost and the impact on their economies comes first. 

[foxes1988]

3 hours ago, dsr-burnley said:

British Gas's £1.3 billion is £2 per week per household in the UK.  Not really a difference-maker.  Even Shell, if their entire worldwide profit was taken from them as a windfall tax, it would make £400 difference to the average household for that quarter.  (And there would be very severe practical difficulties and collateral damage to telling Shell that their entire worldwide profits were taxed at 100% in the UK.)

 

The government does cap the profit.  That's what the much-talked about price cap is all about.  It's partly why so many companies went bust, because they got caught with too many fixed and/or capped contracts and they couldn't cope with the price rises.

It does on the intermediary energy providers. Not to companies like Shell though and that's where the profit is being made and that's where people are talking about capping profit. 

 

Just to add that's why so many went bust because the companies selling lecky and gas to you and me had profit capped but the companies they buying from didn't.

Edited 6 September 2022 by foxes1988

[yorkie1999]

52 minutes ago, foxes1988 said:

It does on the intermediary energy providers. Not to companies like Shell though and that's where the profit is being made and that's where people are talking about capping profit. 

 

Just to add that's why so many went bust because the companies selling lecky and gas to you and me had profit capped but the companies they buying from didn't.

Yes, and which energy companies were selling it and had the power to compromise the smaller companies, edf for a start. It’s like living in Russia, profiteering at the expense of the human race, the only difference being they get cheap energy.

[dsr-burnley]

3 hours ago, foxes1988 said:

It does on the intermediary energy providers. Not to companies like Shell though and that's where the profit is being made and that's where people are talking about capping profit. 

 

Just to add that's why so many went bust because the companies selling lecky and gas to you and me had profit capped but the companies they buying from didn't.

If the government places a cap on the price of imported gas, then the people selling it will sell to higher bidders and we will have power cuts.  If we were self-sufficient in power, capping the cost of suppliers might be possible.  As we are big importers, it isn't.

[leicsmac]

6 hours ago, Parafox said:

The energy/CoL crisis solved in 2 sentences. 

Not saying I disagree but it's going to take more than a few years, plus the actual willingness of world gov's to actually do something meaningful and sustainable that's not going to be too financially expensive. In most economies, cost and the impact on their economies comes first. 

 

1 hour ago, dsr-burnley said:

If the government places a cap on the price of imported gas, then the people selling it will sell to higher bidders and we will have power cuts.  If we were self-sufficient in power, capping the cost of suppliers might be possible.  As we are big importers, it isn't.

Two human key weaknesses on this matter - pursuing short term self-profit and lack of unified action across the world - summed up in two posts there.

 

Needs to be addressed.

[Nalis]

Convinced the reason we havent invested more in green energy is because its not a finite resource like oil or gas and therefore doesnt make the echelons of the business world anywhere near as much money.

Edited 7 September 2022 by Nalis

[leicsmac]

40 minutes ago, Nalis said:

Convinced the reason we havent invested more in green energy is because its not a finite resource like oil or gas and therefore doesnt make the echelons of the business world anywhere near as much money.

I think that's been obvious for years tbh.

 

What's also obvious is how incredibly short-sighted it is, and the lack of foresight or simple malicious lack of consideration for the future from those interests really baffles me.

[yorkie1999]

1 hour ago, Nalis said:

Convinced the reason we havent invested more in green energy is because its not a finite resource like oil or gas and therefore doesnt make the echelons of the business world anywhere near as much money.

We have invested more in green energy though, we pay a levy to build wind farms etc, but we are not seeing the benefits of it. We have the largest wind farms in the world which now produce 26% of our electricity, we were buying 3% of our gas from Russia, and that i suspect is something to do with trading with Russia as they don't have much else to offer, so with the government using the war in Ukraine as an excuse for our problems is bullshit. Why are the people of the UK paying more for energy than 99% of all the other countries in the world? It's either Dick Turpin with his finger in the pie or the governmet have finacially crippled the country and have to balance the books before the next election before anyone finds out. 

[grobyfox1990]

2 hours ago, Nalis said:

Convinced the reason we havent invested more in green energy is because its not a finite resource like oil or gas and therefore doesnt make the echelons of the business world anywhere near as much money.

Plus middle aged middle class white men politicians who don’t believe climate change is real because it was well hot in 1976 then well cold in 1977. We genuinely have a ‘net zero scrutiny group’ led by elected officials in our country. Madness. Jacob Rees m0ng actually thinks fracking is the answer!! 

Edited 7 September 2022 by grobyfox1990
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