5 Years Nett Spent - An insight into us

[Dahnsouff]

3 minutes ago, Ginger_Filbert said:

Nearly £80m on wages is absolutely bonkers. 

How can our salaries be nearly twice Everton? Seems suspicious, or alternatively, our mismanagement/over confidence is coming home to roost

[Bayfox]

7 minutes ago, Sly said:

Annual player salaries. 
 

1. Manchester United – £222,984,000
2. Chelsea – £169,720,000
3. Manchester City – £163,060,000
4. Liverpool – £141,782,000
5. Tottenham – £101,344,000
6. Arsenal – £85,490,000
7. Leicester City – 78,780,000
8. Aston Villa – £75,232,000
9. West Ham – £70,160,000
10. Newcastle United – £62,610,000
11. Crystal Palace – £59,180,000
12. Everton – £43,120,000
13. Wolves – £38,310,000
14. Fulham – £37,610,000
15. Southampton – £35,380,000
16. Bournemouth – £32,044,000
17. Nottingham Forest – £28,590,000
18. Brighton – £28,340,000
19. Leeds United – £17,300,000
20. Brentford – £15,240,000

Excellent so our player wage bill is the same as Everton and Southampton combined. 

 

I mean I have no issue with yorui, madders, vardy, kasper etc over the years being looked after. But you have to ask questions. We got way to romantic as a club when we won the league. There must have been a huge spike in the wage bill that summer with the new deals being handed out and we are cleary now paying the price for that. The rumoured wages, hamza, Bertrand and vestergaard are on is just ridiculous and not called for. If those sort of players don't want to be here for a couple of million a year max and even then thats pushing it, then I'd just not have them.

Edited 1 January 2023 by Bayfox

[coolhandfox]

7 minutes ago, Sly said:

Annual player salaries. 
 

1. Manchester United – £222,984,000
2. Chelsea – £169,720,000
3. Manchester City – £163,060,000
4. Liverpool – £141,782,000
5. Tottenham – £101,344,000
6. Arsenal – £85,490,000
7. Leicester City – 78,780,000
8. Aston Villa – £75,232,000
9. West Ham – £70,160,000
10. Newcastle United – £62,610,000
11. Crystal Palace – £59,180,000
12. Everton – £43,120,000
13. Wolves – £38,310,000
14. Fulham – £37,610,000
15. Southampton – £35,380,000
16. Bournemouth – £32,044,000
17. Nottingham Forest – £28,590,000
18. Brighton – £28,340,000
19. Leeds United – £17,300,000
20. Brentford – £15,240,000

Those are wrong. our wage bill was 192m in 2022

 

The others look wrong too.

[turlo]

14 hours ago, Aus Fox said:

So we’ve only spent £35 million on transfers over the past 5 seasons.

This has us earning over £130 million last season in tv money and £140 million the year before.

And our wage bill last season at £73 million. 
Training ground came in at just over £100 million.

I know there are other expenditures, but there are also other points of revenue.

We've also played in Europe twice and picked up some money for decent cup runs.

If these figures are all accurate, there appears to be a lot of money missing? 
I’m not an accountant, and have no experience of running a football club, but it does make me wonder ‘where’s all the money gone?’

The 73 mill figure is an estimate of the clubs first team squad wages based on player salary's reported from sites like salarysports.com and sportraq.com 

Our total wages from last years accounts (includes coaching, medical, admin staff wages etc) were 192 m (up from 157m), although other posters on here have previously commented that they were higher due to deferred payments from the previous season when clubs were playing behind closed doors during covid

 

We had the highest wage bill outside the rich 6 clubs and 80-90% of our total revenue, which is really restricting what we can spend in the transfer market without owner/external investment and needs sorting asap

Interestingly West ham have just released their accounts and their total wage bill was 132 mill, despite 2 seasons in Europe and spending a shed load last summer, so must be doing something right to manage their wage bill better than we are

 

 

 

[coolhandfox]

4 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

How can our salaries be nearly twice Everton? Seems suspicious, or alternatively, our mismanagement/over confidence is coming home to roost

 

3 minutes ago, Bayfox said:

Excellent so our player wage bill is the same as Everton and Southampton combined. 

 

I mean I have no issue with yorui, madders, vardy, kasper etc over the years being looked after. But you have to ask questions. We got way to romantic as a club when we won the league. There must have been a huge spike in the wage bill that summer with the new deals being handed out and we are cleary now paying the price for that. The rumoured wages, hamza, Bertrand and vestergaard are on is just ridiculous and not called for. If those sort of players don't want to be here for a couple of million a year max and even then thats pushing it, then I'd just not have them.

Because they are wrong, Everton wage bill was 160m + back in 20/21

[turlo]

11 minutes ago, Ginger_Filbert said:

Nearly £80m on wages is absolutely bonkers. 

with coaching, medical, admin, ground maintenance staff etc etc wages included its even worse!

 

wages.jfif

Edited 1 January 2023 by turlo
attachment added

[Sly]

At £192m, that must include signing on bonuses, as that is crazy. Even at 30 players, that would be an average of £6.4m per year, or £123k per week. 

[Finn Claw II]

£80m over 25 players is £60k per week.  You can see how it adds up.
 

Wolves abc Everton spending half of what we do is quite eye opening.  
 

the wage bill should drop significantly come the end of this season.

[turlo]

31 minutes ago, Sly said:

At £192m, that must include signing on bonuses, as that is crazy. Even at 30 players, that would be an average of £6.4m per year, or £123k per week. 

192m is the total wage bill of staff employed by the club the club, so will include coaches, scouts, physios/doctors, ground maintenance, admin/office staff,  directors etc

[dnewty]

It would be nice to hear an interview with Top or one of the directors occasionally as well. Apart from some basic program notes I couldn’t tell you the last time I heard anyone from our board answer some proper questions.

[J. James]

7 hours ago, SafewayFox said:

Surely his extension won’t be at the same pay surely?

 

I have a strong feeling that thi season may very well be his last in England.

After his wife's shenanigans and his USA business interests (to say nothing about the offers that may come in from the land of sand and blood) l can see our GOAT moving abroad.

I do hope I'm wrong mind.

[Guest Col city fan]

I never understand the mentality of some football fans.

They will try as hard as they can to make out that certain players aren’t that bad, or we aren’t playing them right etc.

But a player like Slimani, for example, absolutely rinsed LCFC. 30m transfer fee and a reputed 100k per week for a player of his standard was suicidal for a club like ours. And he had a 4 year contract I think.

He absolutely rinsed us and he was absolutely fookin garbage.

Edited 1 January 2023 by Col city fan

[Freeman's Wharfer]

Been saying it for a while. King Power have taken the club as far as they can and this “finding an alternative way to compete” line is just a cover for not investing. Time for fresh investment to sustain the point at which we’ve got to.

[Daggers]

The issue is never player cost, it’s always who you are giving the money to, what return you are getting from that investment, and how the club develops the assets.

 

The problem is management and long term planning - and the club’s wholesale inability to engage and explain at a meaningful level.

 

We’ve been gash at all of them. I have more idea about the plans McDonalds has for the future than I do for LCFC. This is as much a board issue as it is a Rodgers thing. For all of his multiple failings, at least Mandaric spoke to us - even if most of it was a stack of lies. We get nothing of substance from this board. I’ve never felt more distant from the club.

[Mike1983]

17 hours ago, Sly said:

Annual player salaries. 

20. Brentford – £15,240,000

Nothing but respect for Brentford! A tough team to beat, the big6 would know.

[Guest kristianity77]

15 hours ago, Freeman's Wharfer said:

Been saying it for a while. King Power have taken the club as far as they can and this “finding an alternative way to compete” line is just a cover for not investing. Time for fresh investment to sustain the point at which we’ve got to.

But have they though?  I mean, we could have owners willing to throw billions away but if we are to play by the rules we couldn't spend it.  

[Freeman's Wharfer]

8 hours ago, kristianity77 said:

But have they though?  I mean, we could have owners willing to throw billions away but if we are to play by the rules we couldn't spend it.  

They haven’t really for a good few years now.

 

There have been LOANS from King Power secured against future television money but those have been given because a) they’re cheaper than finding other sources of funding that would charge higher interest and b) King Power can make a little money off the interest on those loans.

 

The net spend figures at the start of this thread are showing that we’ve only marginally spent out more than we’ve brought in on transfers. And we’ve had numerous years of Premier League television money and competition money from competing in European competitions on a few occasions. Where has it gone?

 

Now obviously a large proportion of that - once the mind boggling wage bill has been taken care of - will have gone towards the training ground and stadium expansions. But that’s not investment by the owners is it? Whoever was in charge would have that money from the club to invest back into the club. Many of our fans seem happy to pretend that this money doesn’t exist though and that whatever is spent must be coming out of King Power’s wallet.

 

In actual fact, King Power are taking out a good chunk of money in the naming rights for the stadium (which can’t be sold - denying the club another revenue stream), the marketing/PR for King Power and the ‘management fee’ that shows up in the accounts (and is in the millions) as going to King Power.

 

I do not doubt that they invested heavily to get us to the Premier League and keep us there. That investment has now paid off as they’ll comfortably make that back plus more the day they sell (and via the freebies I mentioned above). But what next?

 

We’ve reached the end of the road unless they want to start investing again. If not,

we’ll only regress and half our fanbase will get a nasty shock when they’re forced to remove the free beer and free mince pies blinkers.

 

The reality is that you can be bank-rolled and loss-making under the FFP rules. It’s just that there is a limit as a safeguard. Over the next few years, with this influx of foreign investment in the Premier League, if you’re not loss making then you’ll be left behind. There’s a way to do it without jeopardising the future of the club but it can only happen if the person with the keys is willing and able to do it.

[goody2028]

Kudos Brentford. A club I respect, a manager I do not. However a club ran very well, fully expected them to drop in their first season. 

[Stadt]

Brentford and Brighton are owned by fans of their respective clubs who made their fortunes in football gambling. Their net worth is nowhere near Top's but because they're actually aware how football works they can leverage their knowledge for their clubs. Top, Whelan and Rudkin don't have have that knowledge so we're more at the mercy of our manager than most clubs. That was fine when Pearson & co were in charge because, quite rarely for a manager these days, Pearson was interested in long term club building efforts.

 

When you have a self-serving manger with no long term track record at clubs you encounter problems. Signings are scattergun, contracts are mismanaged, finances are stretched. Sound familiar?

[st albans fox]

53 minutes ago, Stadt said:

Brentford and Brighton are owned by fans of their respective clubs who made their fortunes in football gambling. Their net worth is nowhere near Top's but because they're actually aware how football works they can leverage their knowledge for their clubs. Top, Whelan and Rudkin don't have have that knowledge so we're more at the mercy of our manager than most clubs. That was fine when Pearson & co were in charge because, quite rarely for a manager these days, Pearson was interested in long term club building efforts.

 

When you have a self-serving manger with no long term track record at clubs you encounter problems. Signings are scattergun, contracts are mismanaged, finances are stretched. Sound familiar?

Rudkin should know more about ‘how football works’ than bloom and Benham.  Having a penchant for stats and gambling know how shouldn’t make them any more business savvy than whelan. 

 

Brentford have big calls to make as many contracts come up for renewal.  Brighton have done no better than us over the cycle. Infact we’ve won a trophy and had two seasons in europe. You can’t compare. 

 

 

[coolhandfox]

47 minutes ago, Stadt said:

Brentford and Brighton are owned by fans of their respective clubs who made their fortunes in football gambling. Their net worth is nowhere near Top's but because they're actually aware how football works they can leverage their knowledge for their clubs. Top, Whelan and Rudkin don't have have that knowledge so we're more at the mercy of our manager than most clubs. That was fine when Pearson & co were in charge because, quite rarely for a manager these days, Pearson was interested in long term club building efforts.

 

When you have a self-serving manger with no long term track record at clubs you encounter problems. Signings are scattergun, contracts are mismanaged, finances are stretched. Sound familiar?

During the tenure of our owners we have won the PL and FA Cup in 12 seasons.

 

Benham has owned Brentford for 10 seasons, Bloom has owned Brighton for 13 seasons.

 

So in 23 season between them, they have won 0 with their superior knowledge.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Stadt]

34 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

During the tenure of our owners we have won the PL and FA Cup in 12 seasons.

 

Benham has owned Brentford for 10 seasons, Bloom has owned Brighton for 13 seasons.

 

So in 23 season between them, they have won 0 with their superior knowledge.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What league were Brentford in 10 years ago? League 1.

 

Brentford and Brighton are much smaller clubs and it's taken them a few years to reach a similar level to us (as they've progressed and we've fallen). We're in a mess, the majority of our squad has 18 months or fewer remaining on their deals, we're not very good at getting bodies through the door and our trajectory is downwards.

 

Brighton have got a young squad sourced from all over the world, including a world cup winner they signed for £8m. Our transfer business has effectively ground to a halt.

 

We've had a good run and most of it was predicated on Pearson and his appointment's good work. The level of competence seems to waning each season. We've gone from CL contenders to relegation candidates in about a season and half, yet nothing seems to budge behind the scenes. It's not just Rodgers' mismanagement why we're at this juncture.

[Stadt]

48 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Rudkin should know more about ‘how football works’ than bloom and Benham.  Having a penchant for stats and gambling know how shouldn’t make them any more business savvy than whelan. 

 

Brentford have big calls to make as many contracts come up for renewal.  Brighton have done no better than us over the cycle. Infact we’ve won a trophy and had two seasons in europe. You can’t compare. 

 

 

What I probably missed out on was their recruitment provides excellent value for money because they're so into analytics. We seem to dabble then number ourselves with shit signings a strong analytics culture would swerve. I'm sure the junior analysts would have tried to veto the Vestergaard, Bertrand and Perez signings but we ended up with them anyway.

 

Rudkin was an academy coach and has worked his way up, maybe he is uniquely qualified for the for the Leicester job amongst the 100s of DOFs across the world and we couldn't get anyone better but I doubt it.

 

We're in a sticky situation and there seems to be this meek acceptance that nothing should change at director and board level. If everybody stays in their posts they'll be at a championship club sooner rather than later.

[CosbehFox]

14 hours ago, Freeman's Wharfer said:

They haven’t really for a good few years now.

 

There have been LOANS from King Power secured against future television money but those have been given because a) they’re cheaper than finding other sources of funding that would charge higher interest and b) King Power can make a little money off the interest on those loans.

 

The net spend figures at the start of this thread are showing that we’ve only marginally spent out more than we’ve brought in on transfers. And we’ve had numerous years of Premier League television money and competition money from competing in European competitions on a few occasions. Where has it gone?

 

Now obviously a large proportion of that - once the mind boggling wage bill has been taken care of - will have gone towards the training ground and stadium expansions. But that’s not investment by the owners is it? Whoever was in charge would have that money from the club to invest back into the club. Many of our fans seem happy to pretend that this money doesn’t exist though and that whatever is spent must be coming out of King Power’s wallet.

 

In actual fact, King Power are taking out a good chunk of money in the naming rights for the stadium (which can’t be sold - denying the club another revenue stream), the marketing/PR for King Power and the ‘management fee’ that shows up in the accounts (and is in the millions) as going to King Power.

 

I do not doubt that they invested heavily to get us to the Premier League and keep us there. That investment has now paid off as they’ll comfortably make that back plus more the day they sell (and via the freebies I mentioned above). But what next?

 

We’ve reached the end of the road unless they want to start investing again. If not,

we’ll only regress and half our fanbase will get a nasty shock when they’re forced to remove the free beer and free mince pies blinkers.

 

The reality is that you can be bank-rolled and loss-making under the FFP rules. It’s just that there is a limit as a safeguard. Over the next few years, with this influx of foreign investment in the Premier League, if you’re not loss making then you’ll be left behind. There’s a way to do it without jeopardising the future of the club but it can only happen if the person with the keys is willing and able to do it.

There's been a chronicle lack of a person at the club whose well versed in football and how to run a football club. Rudkin is institutionalised; he wouldn't get a job anywhere else in the PL. 

 

I genuinely think you can categorise how well clubs are ran dependent on their DoF/Sporting Director. You only look at Edu and Dan Ashworth's appointments at respective clubs and how their employers are doing succeeding. 

 

King Power have restricted their circle - in the process we've lost some really good footballing people with differing departments. 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Stadt said:

What league were Brentford in 10 years ago? League 1.

 

Brentford and Brighton are much smaller clubs and it's taken them a few years to reach a similar level to us (as they've progressed and we've fallen). We're in a mess, the majority of our squad has 18 months or fewer remaining on their deals, we're not very good at getting bodies through the door and our trajectory is downwards.

 

Brighton have got a young squad sourced from all over the world, including a world cup winner they signed for £8m. Our transfer business has effectively ground to a halt.

 

We've had a good run and most of it was predicated on Pearson and his appointment's good work. The level of competence seems to waning each season. We've gone from CL contenders to relegation candidates in about a season and half, yet nothing seems to budge behind the scenes. It's not just Rodgers' mismanagement why we're at this juncture.

Saved me a post. Brentford were mid-table in League One and Brighton had narrowly avoided getting relegated to League Two when Benham and Bloom took over so there's not really a comparison, not to mention how odd it is to use major trophies won as the barometer of success for clubs coming up from League One.