Tactics Under Maresca

[Bluearmyfox28]

2 hours ago, StriderHiryu said:

Is Faes slow? He seems a lot faster to me than Coady or Souttar. Faes weaknesses are poor concentration at times, poor reading of aerial balls and rash judgment. But he’s pretty good on the ball, aggressive in the tackle and quite mobile. 
 

I think a system like this might be what he needs because Maresca will be detail oriented and telling him exactly where he needs to be and when. If that is simplified then *maybe* he will excel. 
 

Also I think it’s worth saying that on paper Leicester have the best squad this division has ever seen. If we had hired Dean Smith or Scott Parker… we’d still be favourites. That’s because our individual player quality is high. Luke Jepcott of Plymouth is a good striker who did great in League One. But regardless of the tactics used, a Belgian international in Faes would be expected to dominate him. 
 

For me the reason I was so excited for Maresca is because Man City on a weekly basis have to beat teams in a defensive block. And this season a lot of teams will play that way against us. That’s when individual player quality may not be enough. Enzo’s got the tactics to shift those block around and find free players. 
 

The counter to our play will be trying to sit and soak and find space in the forward wide areas. The other method will be to match is in midfield, which Bayern tried against Man City… and lost 3-0. Man City exploited the gaps Bayern left in trying to match them!

I think the rash judgement from Faes is what will get him out of this team.

 

In a one on one situation you need the player to stand his man up and allow time for others to cover spaces left open. By diving in you are giving cheap free kicks away, risking the chance of being blown past by the winger (which then leaves us in the shit), or not allowing your teammates time to get in the necessary position to cover the spaces available. 
 

I can see this infuriating Maresca as like you will know, one player not doing the job properly will make the whole system look vulnerable.

[Bluearmyfox28]

1 hour ago, Jimmy said:

If this is how we are going to play can we not try Nacho as one of the attacking 8s? when we made the subs yesterday I kinda wish we'd put McAteer left Daka as striker and Nacho deeper

Personally don’t think Nacho will have the work rate in the middle of the park to consistently high press.
 

Also I feel McAteer excelled on the left side of the ACM’s, he looked very comfortable and I feel that role is his best chance of making the squad this year.

[StriderHiryu]

45 minutes ago, Bluearmyfox28 said:

I think the rash judgement from Faes is what will get him out of this team.

 

In a one on one situation you need the player to stand his man up and allow time for others to cover spaces left open. By diving in you are giving cheap free kicks away, risking the chance of being blown past by the winger (which then leaves us in the shit), or not allowing your teammates time to get in the necessary position to cover the spaces available. 
 

I can see this infuriating Maresca as like you will know, one player not doing the job properly will make the whole system look vulnerable.

Loving your posts!

 

I think you are right, though am not 100% sure that flaw will be exposed at this level. If we draw a Premier League team in either of the cups it might well do though! It will depend on the quality of other teams we face in the division, because some teams will literally camp in their own half for the entire game and settle for a point. However, in those games you might want Souttar for his good forward passing, so he might be out of the team for another reason

 

Faes is an interesting one. Fans from his old team said that he had one disaster season, but the next was their best player. And they said similar things, makes too many rash challenges and had bad decision-making. But second season, he was colossal. I'm not saying this will be the case, but he's still youngish so perhaps he can sort it out.

 

With our team, I can't make any judgements on who should play where yet. They all need time to get used to how to play the system and together in that system. The interview with KDH and Coady was pretty telling, I think they are all loving it because it's so fresh and new for them. Plus seeing things like Wilfred Ndidi genuinely look like a serious attacking threat just shows you how the style of play can totally unlock some players, and regress others.

[SafewayFox]

1 hour ago, Bluearmyfox28 said:

I hear you, but truthfully speed is a luxury in a defender and not as important as empathised at times. Most important as you will know is positional awareness and anticipation in open spaces. Look at Evans In his prime with us, was far from blessed with pace yet very rarely appeared to get done in a foot race due to his positional awareness and anticipation. 

 

With regards to CB’s defending out wide… Often teams will play a diagonal ball over the full back, to which the centre back will be used to covering behind them and defending in that space. I would argue a centre back will feel confident covering that space on the basis that the full back then tucks in behind them and covering/closing the space the winger can go into.
 

The problem we are finding at the moment is the centre back is being left isolated with the winger having a good 5m behind the centre back to work with. That’s why we need the players shuffling across one position to cover what will be seen as dangerous spaces.
 

 

To be fair mate, you’ve answered my post brilliantly.

 

I disagree slightly (the joys of football and opinions) but you’ve definitely made me worry slightly less with our wide CB options - hopefully the back line play in unison as you’ve highlighted it’s the most important part for the tactics to work.

Keep up the top posts btw bud.

 

[Ric Flair]

13 hours ago, StriderHiryu said:

Is Faes slow? He seems a lot faster to me than Coady or Souttar. Faes weaknesses are poor concentration at times, poor reading of aerial balls and rash judgment. But he’s pretty good on the ball, aggressive in the tackle and quite mobile. 
 

I think a system like this might be what he needs because Maresca will be detail oriented and telling him exactly where he needs to be and when. If that is simplified then *maybe* he will excel. 
 

Also I think it’s worth saying that on paper Leicester have the best squad this division has ever seen. If we had hired Dean Smith or Scott Parker… we’d still be favourites. That’s because our individual player quality is high. Luke Jepcott of Plymouth is a good striker who did great in League One. But regardless of the tactics used, a Belgian international in Faes would be expected to dominate him. 
 

For me the reason I was so excited for Maresca is because Man City on a weekly basis have to beat teams in a defensive block. And this season a lot of teams will play that way against us. That’s when individual player quality may not be enough. Enzo’s got the tactics to shift those block around and find free players. 
 

The counter to our play will be trying to sit and soak and find space in the forward wide areas. The other method will be to match is in midfield, which Bayern tried against Man City… and lost 3-0. Man City exploited the gaps Bayern left in trying to match them!

Faes is extremely slow. I've spent all weekend arguing with people on twitter. He's slower than Souttar, I'm convinced of it. Souttar covers the ground well for his size, Faes is either a plodder or his brain doesn't kick in quick enough and he's forever playing catch up.

[Ric Flair]

10 hours ago, Bluearmyfox28 said:

Personally don’t think Nacho will have the work rate in the middle of the park to consistently high press.
 

Also I feel McAteer excelled on the left side of the ACM’s, he looked very comfortable and I feel that role is his best chance of making the squad this year.

McAteer is a curious one. Been pretty unimpressive in his two loan spells but he seemed to be viewed as a wing back which is not really his best position. He's energetic and he has shown in the academy he can score and create goals, not through sublime skill but just consistent attacking input.

 

A more attacking role in a high octane team could kick him on.

[StriderHiryu]

42 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Faes is extremely slow. I've spent all weekend arguing with people on twitter. He's slower than Souttar, I'm convinced of it. Souttar covers the ground well for his size, Faes is either a plodder or his brain doesn't kick in quick enough and he's forever playing catch up.

https://www.beinsports.com/en-au/articles-video/harry-souttar-speed-demon

 

I think you're right! Don't think we'll ever see "Wout Faes speed demon" clips on the Internet, but more likely "Wout Faes hilarious OG's and brain fart moments."

[Beachyboy]

52 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

McAteer is a curious one. Been pretty unimpressive in his two loan spells but he seemed to be viewed as a wing back which is not really his best position. He's energetic and he has shown in the academy he can score and create goals, not through sublime skill but just consistent attacking input.

 

A more attacking role in a high octane team could kick him on.

He sounds pretty determined to me, he's even said that playing in the championship there will be more opportunities. I'd be trying to play on the wing wherever possible if I was him, did I read somewhere he can play as a 10 aswell? As those are the positions we are crying out for.

[Ric Flair]

2 minutes ago, Beachyboy said:

He sounds pretty determined to me, he's even said that playing in the championship there will be more opportunities. I'd be trying to play on the wing wherever possible if I was him, did I read somewhere he can play as a 10 aswell? As those are the positions we are crying out for.

Yeah for the U18s and U21s he played attacking midfield or possibly as a left winger. 

[indierich06]

 

 

You can certainly see what he's trying to implement - beats all the sideways-pass-then-back-to-keeper rubbish that we saw under Big Bren.

[StriderHiryu]

21 minutes ago, indierich06 said:

 

 

You can certainly see what he's trying to implement - beats all the sideways-pass-then-back-to-keeper rubbish that we saw under Big Bren.

That is a great example.

 

The speed of the passing isn't that fast, but all the touches except one are one touch and vertical / forwards, that's the big difference. Of all players it's Wilfred Ndidi at the end of the attack, on his left foot, and that shows how many players we are willing to commit to our attacks into the box. Players arriving later are also extremely difficult to stop, no matter how good you are.

 

 

[KFS]

3 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

That is a great example.

 

The speed of the passing isn't that fast, but all the touches except one are one touch and vertical / forwards, that's the big difference. Of all players it's Wilfred Ndidi at the end of the attack, on his left foot, and that shows how many players we are willing to commit to our attacks into the box. Players arriving later are also extremely difficult to stop, no matter how good you are.

 

 

Casadei is going to ****ing relish this team 

[Finnegan]

42 minutes ago, indierich06 said:

 

 

You can certainly see what he's trying to implement - beats all the sideways-pass-then-back-to-keeper rubbish that we saw under Big Bren.

 

14 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

That is a great example.

 

The speed of the passing isn't that fast, but all the touches except one are one touch and vertical / forwards, that's the big difference. Of all players it's Wilfred Ndidi at the end of the attack, on his left foot, and that shows how many players we are willing to commit to our attacks into the box. Players arriving later are also extremely difficult to stop, no matter how good you are.

 

 

 

It's a great example of how Maresca's methods are already making a difference but it's also a great example of how much work we've still got to do in the market and that ultimately square pegs in round holes will cost us. 

 

I was getting a little frustrated with people celebrating how far up the pitch Ndidi was getting. Whilst he worked really hard and played with confidence and it's nice to see that, he's also just not the man you want to be there finishing off that move and no amount of coaching is going to change that. 

 

Last year we had very efficient finishers in goal scoring positions we just didn't give them the supply. If this year we're going to swap that for improving the supply but getting it to inefficient finishers, that's not a massive improvement. 

 

That move looked silky as all hell, sure, but it involved two of our best finishers and ended up with us setting up a high xG chance for one of our worst. Daka is involved around the halfway line playing in a good flick and it's Iheanacho getting in the cross... for Wilfred Ndidi? 

 

That's beautiful Total Football if you've got 11 players on the pitch that can all consistently take those chances. If you don't, it's a little naive. 

 

Fun to watch yeah. But is it productive? It's okay showing gifs of Man City pulling off the same move but they'd be setting that up for De Bruyne or Gundogan, two of the best goal scoring midfielders in the world. 

 

Hopefully Casadei and KDH have the composure to reap the benefits once the season starts in earnest. 

 

Edited 17 July 2023 by Finnegan

[Bluearmyfox28]

1 hour ago, Ric Flair said:

McAteer is a curious one. Been pretty unimpressive in his two loan spells but he seemed to be viewed as a wing back which is not really his best position. He's energetic and he has shown in the academy he can score and create goals, not through sublime skill but just consistent attacking input.

 

A more attacking role in a high octane team could kick him on.

I know it was only Northampton, but I was impressed with the balls he was playing through to the strikers, always appeared to be open for the pass & appeared aggressive getting into the box. 
 

Personally, he stood out the most of all the academy lads.

[Bluearmyfox28]

I was surprised how well the players had taken to a lot of the fundamentals in the system so early. Honestly, at this stage I thought it may be a bit of a shit show with fans having a meltdown. 
 

Shows Enzo’s coaching methods are effective and the players are buying into it.

[StriderHiryu]

Fair points @Finnegan, but give the man a break! He's been here for two weeks and highlighted two major points:

 

- The most important thing is to get the right squad.

- His short term goal is for the players and squad to understand the "idea" IE positional play and movements of the system.

 

We are making big strides in both those areas, and the initial signs are encouraging.

 

In regard to Ndidi, clearly he sees him as being better as a box-to-box number 8 instead of a sitting 6 like Winks. In this clip, Ndidi is great, he makes the inside channel run, keeps his composure and puts in a good low cross that finds Daka. If we wanted to be ultra critical, we could say that he should keep his cross grounded to make the finish easier, but that's being harsh. We played 4 players as one of the box-to-box midfielders in this game: KDH, Praet, Choudhury and Ndidi. Wilf was the second best in terms of offering attacking threat, the footage is there for all to see. If he had that level of performance every week, he will be a big asset for the squad and will contribute goals and assists. Surely we should give him a chance in that new role before writing him off?

 

 

 

Criticising squad selection and positions is totally legitimate, and you make a well-informed argument. I just think we should hold off a little bit before making more sweeping judgements. The game against Coventry will be the one!

 

 

Edited 17 July 2023 by StriderHiryu

[moore_94]

1 minute ago, StriderHiryu said:

 

 

A shame Daka messed up his shot massively, lucky for him there wasn’t a row Z for him to hit!

 

I expect we are going to see plenty of chances created like this coming from the advancing 8s pulling it back across the box

[StriderHiryu]

1 minute ago, moore_94 said:

A shame Daka messed up his shot massively, lucky for him there wasn’t a row Z for him to hit!

 

I expect we are going to see plenty of chances created like this coming from the advancing 8s pulling it back across the box

It was Daka! I am going blind!

 

 

[KFS]

2 minutes ago, moore_94 said:

A shame Daka messed up his shot massively, lucky for him there wasn’t a row Z for him to hit!

 

I expect we are going to see plenty of chances created like this coming from the advancing 8s pulling it back across the box

Sweaty goals 

[Finnegan]

@StriderHiryu I'm not being overtly critical of Maresca at this point, as I've just said, it's an example of the work we still have to do in the market.

 

If the season starts, he doesn't have the players he needs to make his vision work and he rigidly persists with playing players out of their best roles purely for the "long term plan" then I'll be irritated by this. That's not good, visionary management it's silly. You play the squad that you have in the moment. 

 

For now I'm happy to give the benefit of the doubt because we've had all of two friendlies and I'm assuming that he's working with the knowledge that we will have square pegs available in due course for those positions.

 

I've said elsewhere, I'm generally pretty optimistic and feeling good. I'm just a bit concerned that we won't quite manage to really bring in all the bodies we need. 

 

As an aside, I'm sorry, though, you absolutely do need to calm yourself down, scrape yourself off the ceiling and relax a little on the praise for Ndidi. The cross isn't just "a bit high" it's a hopefully blind punt in to the middle that could have gone anywhere and I'd like you to watch that clip back again and actually concentrate on the white shirts, not the blue ones. 

 

Do you think a Championship defence is going to take up those positions and give him that much unchallenged space? I'm not trying to be Debbie Downer I'm really not, that's not my baseline, but come on. We were playing against Trialist E, F and Z. 

 

And if we doesn't want him in a holding role then we need to get rid of him. Maresca doesn't seem to want a "destroyer" sitting in front of the centre backs, he wants a ball player, which is great and I'm all for it. But then we need to try and move Wilf on. 

[bmt]

1 hour ago, Finnegan said:

 

 

It's a great example of how Maresca's methods are already making a difference but it's also a great example of how much work we've still got to do in the market and that ultimately square pegs in round holes will cost us. 

 

I was getting a little frustrated with people celebrating how far up the pitch Ndidi was getting. Whilst he worked really hard and played with confidence and it's nice to see that, he's also just not the man you want to be there finishing off that move and no amount of coaching is going to change that. 

 

Last year we had very efficient finishers in goal scoring positions we just didn't give them the supply. If this year we're going to swap that for improving the supply but getting it to inefficient finishers, that's not a massive improvement. 

 

That move looked silky as all hell, sure, but it involved two of our best finishers and ended up with us setting up a high xG chance for one of our worst. Daka is involved around the halfway line playing in a good flick and it's Iheanacho getting in the cross... for Wilfred Ndidi? 

 

That's beautiful Total Football if you've got 11 players on the pitch that can all consistently take those chances. If you don't, it's a little naive. 

 

Fun to watch yeah. But is it productive? It's okay showing gifs of Man City pulling off the same move but they'd be setting that up for De Bruyne or Gundogan, two of the best goal scoring midfielders in the world. 

 

Hopefully Casadei and KDH have the composure to reap the benefits once the season starts in earnest. 

 

Good post. I agree we are a few players short to use these tactics to full effect, but for a first public outing it looked good. With some good recruitment we will look very handy.

[StriderHiryu]

Someone has pissed in your cornflakes

4 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

@StriderHiryu I'm not being overtly critical of Maresca at this point, as I've just said, it's an example of the work we still have to do in the market.

 

If the season starts, he doesn't have the players he needs to make his vision work and he rigidly persists with playing players out of their best roles purely for the "long term plan" then I'll be irritated by this. That's not good, visionary management it's silly. You play the squad that you have in the moment. 

 

For now I'm happy to give the benefit of the doubt because we've had all of two friendlies and I'm assuming that he's working with the knowledge that we will have square pegs available in due course for those positions.

 

I've said elsewhere, I'm generally pretty optimistic and feeling good. I'm just a bit concerned that we won't quite manage to really bring in all the bodies we need. 

 

As an aside, I'm sorry, though, you absolutely do need to calm yourself down, scrape yourself off the ceiling and relax a little on the praise for Ndidi. The cross isn't just "a bit high" it's a hopefully blind punt in to the middle that could have gone anywhere and I'd like you to watch that clip back again and actually concentrate on the white shirts, not the blue ones. 

 

Do you think a Championship defence is going to take up those positions and give him that much unchallenged space? I'm not trying to be Debbie Downer I'm really not, that's not my baseline, but come on. We were playing against Trialist E, F and Z. 

 

And if we doesn't want him in a holding role then we need to get rid of him. Maresca doesn't seem to want a "destroyer" sitting in front of the centre backs, he wants a ball player, which is great and I'm all for it. But then we need to try and move Wilf on. 

I'm convinced that someone has pissed in your cornflakes.

 

[Finnegan]

6 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

Someone has pissed in your cornflakes

I'm convinced that someone has pissed in your cornflakes.

 

 

Not at all, I just think people have a habit of getting carried away with both extremes of praise and criticism and the truth is usually somewhere in the middle. 

 

I'm quite obviously not being particularly critical of the manager and I'm extremely optimistic about the brand of football he wants to play. 

 

But we saw the last manager we had here struggle to adapt his footballing philosophy for the caliber of playing staff available to him and I don't want to see his successor fall on that same sword. 

 

The reality is that a lot of our more technically limited players are still going to be here come August and September and I want to see how they're going to fit in because the likes of Ndidi and Daka absolutely have a lot to offer a team but we aren't going to see the best of them in the roles they've been assigned so far. 

[sphericalfox]

4 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Not at all, I just think people have a habit of getting carried away with both extremes of praise and criticism and the truth is usually somewhere in the middle. 

 

I'm quite obviously not being particularly critical of the manager and I'm extremely optimistic about the brand of football he wants to play. 

 

But we saw the last manager we had here struggle to adapt his footballing philosophy for the caliber of playing staff available to him and I don't want to see his successor fall on that same sword. 

 

The reality is that a lot of our more technically limited players are still going to be here come August and September and I want to see how they're going to fit in because the likes of Ndidi and Daka absolutely have a lot to offer a team but we aren't going to see the best of them in the roles they've been assigned so far. 

I really hope you don't think that that's where they will end up ultimately in the squad. They were getting minutes under their belts in a friendly. Not indicative of the 1st team squad we'll likely play or the positions the players will end up in.

[Beachyboy]

9 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Not at all, I just think people have a habit of getting carried away with both extremes of praise and criticism and the truth is usually somewhere in the middle. 

 

I'm quite obviously not being particularly critical of the manager and I'm extremely optimistic about the brand of football he wants to play. 

 

But we saw the last manager we had here struggle to adapt his footballing philosophy for the caliber of playing staff available to him and I don't want to see his successor fall on that same sword. 

 

The reality is that a lot of our more technically limited players are still going to be here come August and September and I want to see how they're going to fit in because the likes of Ndidi and Daka absolutely have a lot to offer a team but we aren't going to see the best of them in the roles they've been assigned so far. 

I'd be suprised if he doesn't already have his starting 11 in his head with and without signings for Coventry. I've heard some Pragmatic things from Enzo realising we need promotion, I expect it to be a staggered rebuild with the likes of Ndidi and Daka being squad players who hopefully come into the game once we are ahead for 20-30 minutes here and there. If we can get a fee for them and spend that on players that are more suited that's surely first prize, rather than like you say trying to shoehorn them into the system.

Edited 17 July 2023 by Beachyboy