Tactics Under Maresca

[StriderHiryu]

50 minutes ago, Stuntman_Mike said:

Brilliant work 

 

I love the second clip that was cut off just before Doyle air kicked and the ball went out off his standing foot, I suppose Enzo didn't teach that 

 

You got me! Selective editing at it's finest

 

23 minutes ago, SafewayFox said:

Loving the post as usual mate.

 

Any ideas on how/what RCB is needed to mitigate the gaping space that is left behind when Ricky pushes further up the pitch? 
 

The chances that we’re going to create for teams (from our mistakes/over playing) with them playing an aimless ball into that channel scares me.

 

It would be Faes job to cover that space. That's why we keep 3 at the back in the setup because between those 3 you can cover more space. On a turnover you aren't expecting the CBs to outright stop the attack they just need to slow it down for the rest of the team to get back. You will also see us do a lot of "Man City" fouls, where they tactically foul players high up the pitch to slow down play on a turnover. Think Fernandinho pulling players shirts on the halfway line from yesteryear. TBH it's not just the RB position, technically the LB position could be exposed too.

 

I didn't mention this in any of my posts, but look at how much more aggressive we were in the press yesterday. Right at the end Albrighton fouled someone, and Dennis Praet injured a player, forcing them to go off. And this was in a friendly.

 

5 hours ago, Rhysm said:

I hope we aren't overly reliant on Ricardo. Great player as he is, appearances likely to be intermittent with injury 

We used JJ in the same position in the second half. Castagne could probably play there too. I don't think that should be too much of an issue. It all depends on what our final squad looks like, I suppose.

[Big_Nige]

Is there an argument that Justin could play that right centre back role? Meaning a back 4 out of possession of 

 

Ricardo - Justin - Coady - Doyle

 

and in possession 

 

Justin - Coady - Doyle

 

Less erratic than Faes, as I’d question his discipline to play in this formation as he has a tendency to chase the ball and get pulled out of position, but Justin also has his defensive limitations and switches off at times.
 

I’d imagine we’ll dominate the ball in the majority of games we play this year and Justin will have that natural athleticism to cover the space vacated by Ricardo playing the inverted fullback

[Guest]

Thanks for the posts and particularly the clips - I couldn't* watch the game so it's nice to see how we're looking to set up and what sorts of patterns are emerging.

 

My main questions at this point:

 

1. Who comes in for Winks and Ricardo in the deeper midfield positions if and when they get injured or need resting? Justin might be a reasonable deputy for Ricardo but if we lose Winks and are then asking Choudhury or Wilf to be regularly receiving the ball under pressure and slipping passes round the corner then I think that is a big problem. Opportunity for Braybrooke at some point if he recovers well?

 

2. Which, if any, of our current strikers do we see fitting in best? Iheanacho would strike me as the most suitable for this sort of football but also probably the most likely to leave, which I guess is why we're looking at Piroe. Could we set up to accommodate Vardy or Daka in the same way Man City do for Haaland or are they a bit too limited?

 

3. Assuming Barnes is off but even if he isn't, the obvious weakness is the wingers/wide forwards/whatever you want to call them - what sort of player are we targeting there? Players like Chair who are sort of wide no.10s in the Grealish and Bernardo mould, proper wingers to offer width, inside forwards like Barnes, a mixture?

 

*be arsed to

[filbertway]

23 hours ago, Dahnsouff said:

I am pleased we are fixing our major problem first, the time for attacking signings comes after, and quite rightly. Why on Earth would you do it any other way? It would be baffling after recent seasons shocking defensive performances.

 

We do seem to have an issue with shifting players, but it’s not only us it seems, unless we send them all on loan like Leeds.

I think you're totally underestimating the loss of Youri, Madders and Barnes if you think the defence is our main issue.

 

I look forward to more "well its easy to say that with hindsight" when we're struggling to break teams down and score

 

Hopefully we see th Barnes situation resolved this week and some actual attacking talent brought in.

 

Id definitely keep kel if were not gonna get anything more than 20 million for him.

His ability to score from nothing will be badly needed I reckon.

[Dahnsouff]

1 minute ago, filbertway said:

I think you're totally underestimating the loss of Youri, Madders and Barnes if you think the defence is our main issue.

 

I look forward to more "well its easy to say that with hindsight" when we're struggling to break teams down and score

 

Hopefully we see th Barnes situation resolved this week and some actual attacking talent brought in.

 

Id definitely keep kel if were not gonna get anything more than 20 million for him.

His ability to score from nothing will be badly needed I reckon.

And I think you like many seem to be acting like we are finished with our business, it’s bizarre. Our defence was  by far our biggest issue, and it’s a blatantly untrue to suggest otherwise.

 

Yes, losing Maddison, Youri and Harvey is a huge issue for our creativity, but we haven’t finished our business, fix the back, get the new old guard to set the mentality straight, then get the new creative folks in.

 

Do not fall for Ric’s team full of kids rubbish, as I fully believe that we will get youth but we sure as shit should not start there, and I think he knows this despite the jokes

 

Already we see the benefit of vocal experience at the back

[StriderHiryu]

2 hours ago, Guest said:

Thanks for the posts and particularly the clips - I couldn't* watch the game so it's nice to see how we're looking to set up and what sorts of patterns are emerging.

 

My main questions at this point:

 

1. Who comes in for Winks and Ricardo in the deeper midfield positions if and when they get injured or need resting? Justin might be a reasonable deputy for Ricardo but if we lose Winks and are then asking Choudhury or Wilf to be regularly receiving the ball under pressure and slipping passes round the corner then I think that is a big problem. Opportunity for Braybrooke at some point if he recovers well?

 

2. Which, if any, of our current strikers do we see fitting in best? Iheanacho would strike me as the most suitable for this sort of football but also probably the most likely to leave, which I guess is why we're looking at Piroe. Could we set up to accommodate Vardy or Daka in the same way Man City do for Haaland or are they a bit too limited?

 

3. Assuming Barnes is off but even if he isn't, the obvious weakness is the wingers/wide forwards/whatever you want to call them - what sort of player are we targeting there? Players like Chair who are sort of wide no.10s in the Grealish and Bernardo mould, proper wingers to offer width, inside forwards like Barnes, a mixture?

 

*be arsed to

1. JJ was played instead of Ricardo so not much debate there. Winks… that’s a lot tougher. Braybrooke a good shout but is injured. I could see us shift Coady up to that position. In the Championship we could probably get away with Ndidi or Soumare there but Winks in 60 minutes showed more than those two have. I agree that it’s an integral position that we lack depth for. 
 

2. For me Vardy is still the best because of his movement and clinical finishing. At this level surely all 3 would do good and TBH until we see them all play in the system for a bit I can’t comment. When he was on Nacho came deeper and got more involved, but Haaland does not really do this for Man City. 
 

3. A mixture. Recently Pep has tended to sign more flexible players Grealish who can perform multiple roles, whereas in the past it was more traditional wide forwards like Mahrez, Sane, Sterling. I think we will get one of each type at minimum. 

[StriderHiryu]

1 hour ago, Dahnsouff said:

And I think you like many seem to be acting like we are finished with our business, it’s bizarre. Our defence was  by far our biggest issue, and it’s a blatantly untrue to suggest otherwise.

 

 

Goals win games, clean sheets win Championships. 

[StanSP]

'get players in the box'. This attitude will get us far. Just hope we're clinical as much as possible and that it pays off... 

 

 

 

[StriderHiryu]

2 hours ago, StanSP said:

'get players in the box'. This attitude will get us far. Just hope we're clinical as much as possible and that it pays off... 

 

 

 

Thank you for sharing! This is absolutely brilliant, and I can tell we fans are going to fall in love with him pretty quickly! He's very charismatic!

 

For me what I love about this type of coach is that he's totally prepared to talk about his ideas and the team setup. This is super refreshing because in England this isn't usually the case, whereas on the continent a lot of the pre and post match stuff is centred around this topic.

 

Everyone should watch it, but there's so much to learn from this video:

 

- Used Ricardo as the inverted fullback since day one, thinks Riccy is doing a great job there.

- For now we are working on this setup (3241) but different teams setup in different ways, so we might need to change our approach sometimes, e.g. being more direct.

- The idea is to have one extra player in midfield. To lure the opposition onto you to find a free man via quick passing. In the first and second half, either KDH or Praet were free because the player marking them had to jump to try and challenge Ricardo. So when the tactic works, one of our spare midfielders will find that extra time on the ball.

- The idea is also to have the two 8's (KDH, Praet) arrive in the box to support the striker and the winger. That makes 4 people in the box to find.

- To score goals you have to get men into the box! Hence even players like Ndidi attacking the box! (I like how he laughs at the idea of Wilf attacking the box!)

- So far the players seem to be enjoying the tactics and way of playing.

 

 

 

[StriderHiryu]

 

 

"We haven't even been working with him for two weeks and we have already learned so much. He lives and breathes football!"

 

 

[StanSP]

1 minute ago, StriderHiryu said:

The idea is to have one extra player in midfield. To lure the opposition onto you to find a free man via quick passing. In the first and second half, either KDH or Praet were free because the player marking them had to jump to try and challenge Ricardo. So when the tactic works, one of our spare midfielders will find that extra time on the ball.

- The idea is also to have the two 8's (KDH, Praet) arrive in the box to support the striker and the winger. That makes 4 people in the box to find.

- To score goals you have to get men into the box! Hence even players like Ndidi attacking the box! (I like how he laughs at the idea of Wilf attacking the box!)

- So far the players seem to be enjoying the tactics and way of playing.

All of these points should be taken into consideration when we play, especially when the season actually starts. I just hope people see the difference in Rodgers' possession-based tactic compared to Maresca's. 

 

Attacking-wise it feels like it'll be so refreshing under this style. We've almost been starved of 'extra players on the box' and trying to find 'the perfect goal' under the last regime. But this one seems to go back to basics in the sense of increase your chance to score by adding more players in the box, not only relying on a worldie or a screamer from outside the box. 

 

The more options you have to score, the more likely you will end up doing so. And it takes the burden off the likes of Vardy and Iheanacho. 

 

I can't wait to see how it continues to develop, especially if we're seeing it do well so far this early in pre-season. 

 

And as has been mentioned in other threads, the players all have a buy-in into it. They seem happy with the tactic and open to learning more about it. Be great to see it work to perfection with the right players in it too! 

[StriderHiryu]

3 minutes ago, StanSP said:

All of these points should be taken into consideration when we play, especially when the season actually starts. I just hope people see the difference in Rodgers' possession-based tactic compared to Maresca's. 

 

Attacking-wise it feels like it'll be so refreshing under this style. We've almost been starved of 'extra players on the box' and trying to find 'the perfect goal' under the last regime. But this one seems to go back to basics in the sense of increase your chance to score by adding more players in the box, not only relying on a worldie or a screamer from outside the box. 

 

The more options you have to score, the more likely you will end up doing so. And it takes the burden off the likes of Vardy and Iheanacho. 

 

I can't wait to see how it continues to develop, especially if we're seeing it do well so far this early in pre-season. 

 

And as has been mentioned in other threads, the players all have a buy-in into it. They seem happy with the tactic and open to learning more about it. Be great to see it work to perfection with the right players in it too! 

I am very confident this season after seeing us play. As some of you guys know, I have some coaching badges and thus have experienced first hand what it's like to run coaching sessions and / or get an idea across. What I see after 2 weeks of training is phenomenal. Just you wait for Christmas to see how we play.

 

Some people have concerns that other teams will figure us out, but in this division we have the strongest squad so I don't think that will be such an issue. We will lose games but I bet most of those we will still have tons of possession and make lots of chances, but just get done on the counter or have wasteful positioning. The attacking play needs work, but the patterns of play are already taking shape.

[StanSP]

15 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

I am very confident this season after seeing us play. As some of you guys know, I have some coaching badges and thus have experienced first hand what it's like to run coaching sessions and / or get an idea across. What I see after 2 weeks of training is phenomenal. Just you wait for Christmas to see how we play.

 

Some people have concerns that other teams will figure us out, but in this division we have the strongest squad so I don't think that will be such an issue. We will lose games but I bet most of those we will still have tons of possession and make lots of chances, but just get done on the counter or have wasteful positioning. The attacking play needs work, but the patterns of play are already taking shape.

Yep, no team ever goes 100% in this division, or even unbeaten, but the early signs look good for how we'll approach it. Entertaining and effective is what I ask for. Even if the odd team here or there does get the better of us, at least we will hopefully have strength in depth to change tactic or tweak it. Something we lacked severely last season. 

[Bluearmyfox28]

13 hours ago, Rhysm said:

I hope we aren't overly reliant on Ricardo. Great player as he is, appearances likely to be intermittent with injury 

Rotation is going to be key with this system. Most managers that play a high press depend on a big squad to keep it fresh on a regular basis. I think Enzo is going to want two very capable players in each position.

[Bluearmyfox28]

7 hours ago, StriderHiryu said:

 

It would be Faes job to cover that space. That's why we keep 3 at the back in the setup because between those 3 you can cover more space. On a turnover you aren't expecting the CBs to outright stop the attack they just need to slow it down for the rest of the team to get back. You will also see us do a lot of "Man City" fouls, where they tactically foul players high up the pitch to slow down play on a turnover. Think Fernandinho pulling players shirts on the halfway line from yesteryear. TBH it's not just the RB position, technically the LB position could be exposed too.

The key is the rotational movement from the centre backs and left back when we are getting hit on the counter as you’ve alluded to. When someone like Faes has to push out everyone has to move along one position to fill the space from dangerous positions with either the winger or centre mid to tuck in and fill the void position to create a back 4. At times I felt Doyle didn’t cover across quick enough which made both Coady and Faes hesitant to shuffle over. Working progress…

 

photo of the shadowed spaces that should be covered when we are hit on the counter. With everyone shuffling over one position.

Edited 16 July 2023 by Bluearmyfox28

[SafewayFox]

47 minutes ago, Bluearmyfox28 said:

The key is the rotational movement from the centre backs and left back when we are getting hit on the counter as you’ve alluded to. When someone like Faes has to push out everyone has to move along one position to fill the space from dangerous positions with either the winger or centre mid to tuck in and fill the void position to create a back 4. At times I felt Doyle didn’t cover across quick enough which made both Coady and Faes hesitant to shuffle over. Working progress…

 

photo of the shadowed spaces that should be covered when we are hit on the counter. With everyone shuffling over one position.

Totally see where you and @StriderHiryu are coming from but Man City utilize Akanjj/Ake who both aren’t a slouch like Faes.

 

I say this as whilst I understand that the RCB/LCB’s role isn’t to engage and more to hold up the attack but another worry is Faes’ rashness.

 

I hope that I’m wrong but having played and watched football for so many years, it’s a known fact that CB’s don’t like defending out wide (unless have that pace/played FB) as struggle defending “out of position”.

[StriderHiryu]

40 minutes ago, SafewayFox said:

Totally see where you and @StriderHiryu are coming from but Man City utilize Akanjj/Ake who both aren’t a slouch like Faes.

 

I say this as whilst I understand that the RCB/LCB’s role isn’t to engage and more to hold up the attack but another worry is Faes’ rashness.

 

I hope that I’m wrong but having played and watched football for so many years, it’s a known fact that CB’s don’t like defending out wide (unless have that pace/played FB) as struggle defending “out of position”.

Is Faes slow? He seems a lot faster to me than Coady or Souttar. Faes weaknesses are poor concentration at times, poor reading of aerial balls and rash judgment. But he’s pretty good on the ball, aggressive in the tackle and quite mobile. 
 

I think a system like this might be what he needs because Maresca will be detail oriented and telling him exactly where he needs to be and when. If that is simplified then *maybe* he will excel. 
 

Also I think it’s worth saying that on paper Leicester have the best squad this division has ever seen. If we had hired Dean Smith or Scott Parker… we’d still be favourites. That’s because our individual player quality is high. Luke Jepcott of Plymouth is a good striker who did great in League One. But regardless of the tactics used, a Belgian international in Faes would be expected to dominate him. 
 

For me the reason I was so excited for Maresca is because Man City on a weekly basis have to beat teams in a defensive block. And this season a lot of teams will play that way against us. That’s when individual player quality may not be enough. Enzo’s got the tactics to shift those block around and find free players. 
 

The counter to our play will be trying to sit and soak and find space in the forward wide areas. The other method will be to match is in midfield, which Bayern tried against Man City… and lost 3-0. Man City exploited the gaps Bayern left in trying to match them!

[Beachyboy]

9 hours ago, Big_Nige said:

Is there an argument that Justin could play that right centre back role? Meaning a back 4 out of possession of 

 

Ricardo - Justin - Coady - Doyle

 

and in possession 

 

Justin - Coady - Doyle

 

Less erratic than Faes, as I’d question his discipline to play in this formation as he has a tendency to chase the ball and get pulled out of position, but Justin also has his defensive limitations and switches off at times.
 

I’d imagine we’ll dominate the ball in the majority of games we play this year and Justin will have that natural athleticism to cover the space vacated by Ricardo playing the inverted fullback

Justin has to be in the team on Beyond the 90, Tanner said Rogers off the record said JJ is the best defender at the club, an so athletic.

[Jimmy]

If this is how we are going to play can we not try Nacho as one of the attacking 8s? when we made the subs yesterday I kinda wish we'd put McAteer left Daka as striker and Nacho deeper

[Big_Nige]

21 minutes ago, Beachyboy said:

Justin has to be in the team on Beyond the 90, Tanner said Rogers off the record said JJ is the best defender at the club, an so athletic.

As a 1v1 defender I’d be inclined to agree. Very rarely got the better of. Never been sold on how he defends the back post but not everyone can be Danny Simpson

 

 

[Lambert09]

You do get the feeling that our cryptonite will once again be teams that counter attack with pace. There’s going to be a void with ricardo switching positions and any team that has a quick workman like striker is likely to pull that way as our cbs aren’t blessed with pace. 

 

 

[Lillehamring]

5 hours ago, StanSP said:

All of these points should be taken into consideration when we play, especially when the season actually starts. I just hope people see the difference in Rodgers' possession-based tactic compared to Maresca's. 

 

Attacking-wise it feels like it'll be so refreshing under this style. We've almost been starved of 'extra players on the box' and trying to find 'the perfect goal' under the last regime. But this one seems to go back to basics in the sense of increase your chance to score by adding more players in the box, not only relying on a worldie or a screamer from outside the box. 

 

it's interesting - my key memory of our time under was rodgers was that when we got in the box, we got results, whilst when we got stuck knocking the ball around the edge of the box, we sucked - such a little thing, but it really is that simple.

[Lillehamring]

5 hours ago, StriderHiryu said:

I am very confident this season after seeing us play. As some of you guys know, I have some coaching badges and thus have experienced first hand what it's like to run coaching sessions and / or get an idea across. What I see after 2 weeks of training is phenomenal. Just you wait for Christmas to see how we play.

 

Some people have concerns that other teams will figure us out, but in this division we have the strongest squad so I don't think that will be such an issue. We will lose games but I bet most of those we will still have tons of possession and make lots of chances, but just get done on the counter or have wasteful positioning. The attacking play needs work, but the patterns of play are already taking shape.

Also, this is where adaptability comes into it - if teams adjust to the way we play, then we just switch it to play in a way to get round that - at least that's what he seemed to suggest in that interview.  And, as we all know, this was BRs ultimate weakness.. 

[Lillehamring]

1 hour ago, Beachyboy said:

Justin has to be in the team on Beyond the 90, Tanner said Rogers off the record said JJ is the best defender at the club, an so athletic.

BR had so much spin, though, he bigged up every player, that was his psychology, so i wouldn't read too much in it.  JJ has a lot to prove, he's looked very nervous, indecisive and overcareful since coming back from his injury - maybe maresca can help him improve, but it seems unlikely he'll be ahead of the starting back 4 we saw at northampton.

[Bluearmyfox28]

3 hours ago, SafewayFox said:

Totally see where you and @StriderHiryu are coming from but Man City utilize Akanjj/Ake who both aren’t a slouch like Faes.

 

I say this as whilst I understand that the RCB/LCB’s role isn’t to engage and more to hold up the attack but another worry is Faes’ rashness.

 

I hope that I’m wrong but having played and watched football for so many years, it’s a known fact that CB’s don’t like defending out wide (unless have that pace/played FB) as struggle defending “out of position”.

I hear you, but truthfully speed is a luxury in a defender and not as important as empathised at times. Most important as you will know is positional awareness and anticipation in open spaces. Look at Evans In his prime with us, was far from blessed with pace yet very rarely appeared to get done in a foot race due to his positional awareness and anticipation. 

 

With regards to CB’s defending out wide… Often teams will play a diagonal ball over the full back, to which the centre back will be used to covering behind them and defending in that space. I would argue a centre back will feel confident covering that space on the basis that the full back then tucks in behind them and covering/closing the space the winger can go into.
 

The problem we are finding at the moment is the centre back is being left isolated with the winger having a good 5m behind the centre back to work with. That’s why we need the players shuffling across one position to cover what will be seen as dangerous spaces.