Tactics Under Maresca

[Lillehamring]

2 hours ago, Big_Nige said:

Can confirm this is true. My seat is around these Facebook dad’s. I give it 5 minutes before one goes off about Ricardo wandering around in midfield 

I suspect most of the first few games will be dedicated purely to 'would've preferred a British manager, shoulda got scott parker - guaranteed get us straight back up....done it all before'

[Lillehamring]

1 hour ago, An Sionnach said:

The revamp is having to cross the money and contract swamp , it was never going to be easy. We could speed it up by paying off contracts but this club seems loath to cut its losses , hate giving somebody something for nothing. Very, very bad mistakes have been made , they should acknowledge them and move on.

That really isn't true - kasper went for next to nothing, the maddison deal could have dragged on for weeks if we'd held out for what people were expecting spurs to pay.

I assume your basing this on things like the vestergaard deal that fell through, but we don't know how much of that was due to us not wanting to give someone 'something for nothing' and how much was down to vestergaard clearly being very fussy about where he wanted to play.  In fact as a club we have a tremendous track record for getting as much as possible for players - even now it staggers me how we got away with the maguire deal.

 

 

[Plastik Man]

 

[An Sionnach]

9 minutes ago, Lillehamring said:

That really isn't true - kasper went for next to nothing, the maddison deal could have dragged on for weeks if we'd held out for what people were expecting spurs to pay.

I assume your basing this on things like the vestergaard deal that fell through, but we don't know how much of that was due to us not wanting to give someone 'something for nothing' and how much was down to vestergaard clearly being very fussy about where he wanted to play.  In fact as a club we have a tremendous track record for getting as much as possible for players - even now it staggers me how we got away with the maguire deal.

 

 

Players are now running down their contracts with us and I don't blame them , they play for money. We struggle to loan because of their high pay so they sit around doing very little.I can't see the point of that situation  myself. They won't leave and lose money , why should they. I would clear the decks but yes that would cost us £10 - £15 million and in Bangkok that is very bad business. The Maguire and Fofana sales were perfect examples of clubs believing the hype. More fool them.

[Lillehamring]

51 minutes ago, An Sionnach said:

Players are now running down their contracts with us and I don't blame them , they play for money. We struggle to loan because of their high pay so they sit around doing very little.I can't see the point of that situation  myself. They won't leave and lose money , why should they. I would clear the decks but yes that would cost us £10 - £15 million and in Bangkok that is very bad business. The Maguire and Fofana sales were perfect examples of clubs believing the hype. More fool them.

Yeah - the whole 'paying off contracts' vs 'running down contracts' thing is a bit of an enigma.  I guess with a year to go, paying off a contract could be almost as expensive as just paying salary for the year; whilst any player prepared to rot in the reserves (as it was) is clearly a bit of dick.  I'm surprised there aren't more 'mutual consent' deals - everyone seems to win there - the club save salary, avoid a pay off and get rid of an unhappy/unwanted player, whilst the player can get on with their career and appeal to new employers as a free agent.....

[Lambert09]

I dont want to be a negative nancy because finally things are looking good but I am starting to have a bit of a concern.  We are building a team to be the "man city of the championship"... we are assuming that teams are going to sit back against us. But heres the thing.... im not convinced this is going to be true. 

 

When we played blackburn and before that forest neither of them looked at our premier league side and decided to park the bus. When most teams played burnley... at least in the first half of the campaign... I wouldnt say they fully retreated either. 

 

I have this niggling feeling that theres a little bit of delusion that all the other teams will be terrified of us and sit back... but I really dont see it. At least half of the sides are going to fancy taking something from us. 

 

What concerns me, is that we fully commit to a team designed to succeed when a team is using a low block but how will we cope against teams that actually want to play?  I just really hope we arent underestimating the league. Theres been a few comments from Maresca that make me think that he just assumes everyone will be so far below us but I hope that is just confidence and not because he hasnt fully assessed the strength of the league. 

Edited 18 July 2023 by Lambert09

[Lillehamring]

22 minutes ago, Lambert09 said:

I dont want to be a negative nancy because finally things are looking good but I am starting to have a bit of a concern.  We are building a team to be the "man city of the championship"... we are assuming that teams are going to sit back against us. But heres the thing.... im not convinced this is going to be true. 

 

When we played blackburn and before that forest neither of them looked at our premier league side and decided to park the bus. When most teams played burnley... at least in the first half of the campaign... I wouldnt say they fully retreated either. 

 

I have this niggling feeling that theres a little bit of delusion that all the other teams will be terrified of us and sit back... but I really dont see it. At least half of the sides are going to fancy taking something from us. 

 

What concerns me, is that we fully commit to a team designed to succeed when a team is using a low block but how will we cope against teams that actually want to play?  I just really hope we arent underestimating the league. Theres been a few comments from Maresca that make me think that he just assumes everyone will be so far below us but I hope that is just confidence and not because he hasnt fully assessed the strength of the league. 

But, as has been highlighted elsewhere in the thread, the 3-2 set up is actually designed to encourage teams to press, whilst providing an extra man to pass through the press. Also, as we saw against northampton, the CBs are being encouraged to play long diagonals when space opens up.  I get your concern, but the system seems far more versatile than previous possession-based tacitcs we've been used to.

[boosmanana]

If anything, it'll benefit us more if teams are closing us down further up as opposed to sitting in a low block. It'll enable us to get past the initial press much quicker. As long as the passes are crisp and connect with their intended target of course. 

[Stadt]

28 minutes ago, Lambert09 said:

I dont want to be a negative nancy because finally things are looking good but I am starting to have a bit of a concern.  We are building a team to be the "man city of the championship"... we are assuming that teams are going to sit back against us. But heres the thing.... im not convinced this is going to be true. 

 

When we played blackburn and before that forest neither of them looked at our premier league side and decided to park the bus. When most teams played burnley... at least in the first half of the campaign... I wouldnt say they fully retreated either. 

 

I have this niggling feeling that theres a little bit of delusion that all the other teams will be terrified of us and sit back... but I really dont see it. At least half of the sides are going to fancy taking something from us. 

 

What concerns me, is that we fully commit to a team designed to succeed when a team is using a low block but how will we cope against teams that actually want to play?  I just really hope we arent underestimating the league. Theres been a few comments from Maresca that make me think that he just assumes everyone will be so far below us but I hope that is just confidence and not because he hasnt fully assessed the strength of the league. 

We'll adapt, if teams come at us they'll leave space. I can't see most of the league wanting to squeeze us too much given we'll likely have Vardy or Daka up front. Blackburn and Forest took the game to us because we were a dysfunctional side for so long.

[Dahnsouff]

Anyone else expecting a @StriderHiryu video on what the signing of Mads could mean for Enzo’s tactics?

 

[Phil Bowman]

17 hours ago, Lillehamring said:

Also, as we saw against northampton, the CBs are being encouraged to play long diagonals when space opens up.

Does this mean Vestergaard might play, do you think?

I know people have written him off on here, and not without reason.

But I'd imagine Maresca is starting with a clean slate with everybody, and he is an international centre back who can pass the ball really well... playing long diagonals is kind of his strong point.

 

[ALC Fox]

19 hours ago, Lillehamring said:

But, as has been highlighted elsewhere in the thread, the 3-2 set up is actually designed to encourage teams to press, whilst providing an extra man to pass through the press. Also, as we saw against northampton, the CBs are being encouraged to play long diagonals when space opens up.  I get your concern, but the system seems far more versatile than previous possession-based tacitcs we've been used to.

I'd add that in several guises, Pep's Man City team have adapted. For example, early on when teams were pressing them, Ederson would find joy time and again with just a clipped ball forward to the centre circle where the gaps were, and where Aguero would drop in to collect the ball.

 

Compare that to Ederson now going long a lot more to hit Haaland. Case in point being Haaland's knock-down for Gundogan to score a few seconds into the FA Cup final last season.

 

Of course, all the while through these different iterations of Pep's team, the general premise is that Man City play out from the back when possible.

 

If Maresca has learned anything from Pep it's that there is surely a plan A, but plans B, C and D must surely be available to switch to at any point during a game. I guess the hard part is coaching that into the players.

Edited 19 July 2023 by ALC Fox
Got the FA Cup scorer wrong

[st albans fox]

19 hours ago, Lillehamring said:

But, as has been highlighted elsewhere in the thread, the 3-2 set up is actually designed to encourage teams to press, whilst providing an extra man to pass through the press. Also, as we saw against northampton, the CBs are being encouraged to play long diagonals when space opens up.  I get your concern, but the system seems far more versatile than previous possession-based tacitcs we've been used to.

 

12 minutes ago, ALC Fox said:

I'd add that in several guises, Pep's Man City team have adapted. For example, early on when teams were pressing them, Ederson would find joy time and again with just a clipped ball forward to the centre circle where the gaps were, and where Aguero would drop in to collect the ball.

 

Compare that to Ederson now going long a lot more to hit Haaland. Case in point being Haaland's knock-down for Bernardo Silva to score a few seconds into the FA Cup final last season.

 

Of course, all the while through these different iterations of Pep's team, the general premise is that Man City play out from the back when possible.

 

If Maresca has learned anything from Pep it's that there is surely a plan A, but plans B, C and D must surely be available to switch to at any point during a game. I guess the hard part is coaching that into the players.

👏 👏 

 

We want teams to press us high - we don’t want them retreating into a low block but if they do then we will push men forwards to give us 2v1’s to break it.  Our exposure is on transition and that is a calculated gamble. We will concede goals to quick breaks this season - it’s the price of setting up as we intend to 

This is why pep is such an exciting coach - always developing new tactical shapes to exploit the changes that other coaches employ to try and counter his tactics. 

[StriderHiryu]

20 hours ago, boosmanana said:

If anything, it'll benefit us more if teams are closing us down further up as opposed to sitting in a low block. It'll enable us to get past the initial press much quicker. As long as the passes are crisp and connect with their intended target of course. 

I was going to say exactly this. Sometimes the biggest pummelling happen when a team tries to take on a superior one at doing the same thing as them, but worse. Remember the week we played Man City and Liverpool in 2019 after a great start to the season and got battered by both? At the same time, last season Liverpool lost quite a few games to teams that did go for them and outpress them, but you could argue that's because they didn't reinforce their midfield, which is why they've signed Macallister and Szobolazi this summer. 

 

So really we will have to wait and see in those games. Blackburn did it to us in the cup and beat us so there's precedent for it. My prediction would be that wins at the start of the season have dominant possession but low scores, and then around mid-season we start battering a few teams as the system clicks. Then during the run-in it gets tight again as teams shut up shop and nerves play a part.

 

In 15/16 teams began the season attacking us. After Christmas teams realised that was not a very good idea!

[Lambert09]

well pre-season tells a story already. i’m surprised maresca has committed to certain players so early. Would have thought he’d be trying our different 11s. if nacho can’t make the first team despite being our best player…. then you just have to get him gone. 

 

It would be a travesty to have a player like him on the bench in the championship 

[moore_94]

@StriderHiryu You will enjoy this when it is out

 

 

[Lillehamring]

12 hours ago, Phil Bowman said:

Does this mean Vestergaard might play, do you think?

I know people have written him off on here, and not without reason.

But I'd imagine Maresca is starting with a clean slate with everybody, and he is an international centre back who can pass the ball really well... playing long diagonals is kind of his strong point.

 

who knows - he didn't do anything wrong, but then the areas where he has struggled weren't really tested...

[StriderHiryu]

On 18/07/2023 at 18:33, Dahnsouff said:

Anyone else expecting a @StriderHiryu video on what the signing of Mads could mean for Enzo’s tactics?

 

Not quite what you are after, but Neel from Beyone the 90 and I talk about it here:

 

 

 

Yes that is me, I really do like that much of an idiot in real life. If you see met at the ground, feel free to give me pelters!

 

Most of this stuff is covered in the first 15 minutes, and it's all in this thread, but still nice to talk it through. It will beat Match of the Day!

 

 

Edited 21 July 2023 by StriderHiryu

[lcfc_forever]

18 hours ago, StriderHiryu said:

Not quite what you are after, but Neel from Beyone the 90 and I talk about it here:

 

 

 

Yes that is me, I really do like that much of an idiot in real life. If you see met at the ground, feel free to give me pelters!

 

Most of this stuff is covered in the first 15 minutes, and it's all in this thread, but still nice to talk it through. It will beat Match of the Day!

 

 

This was brilliant @StriderHiryu, you came across far better than professional pundits! 

[Big_Nige]

19 hours ago, StriderHiryu said:

Not quite what you are after, but Neel from Beyone the 90 and I talk about it here:

 

 

 

Yes that is me, I really do like that much of an idiot in real life. If you see met at the ground, feel free to give me pelters!

 

Most of this stuff is covered in the first 15 minutes, and it's all in this thread, but still nice to talk it through. It will beat Match of the Day!

 

 

Excellent analysis @StriderHiryu  really enjoyed that

 

The most salient point I think, and it’s the one that excites me the most, is we played that way after only 2 weeks on the training ground. So many new ideas and patterns of play to get across to the players, so it seems he’s got the buy in from the squad and that can only be a massively positive thing 

[StriderHiryu]

1 hour ago, Big_Nige said:

Excellent analysis @StriderHiryu  really enjoyed that

 

The most salient point I think, and it’s the one that excites me the most, is we played that way after only 2 weeks on the training ground. So many new ideas and patterns of play to get across to the players, so it seems he’s got the buy in from the squad and that can only be a massively positive thing 

Couldn't put it better myself! With these complex systems, each player has to know where to stand in many different positions and game states on the pitch. It wasn't perfect, but the players did seem to understand their instructions really well.

 

I'm reminded of a quote from Maurizio Sarri who was Chelsea boss for a while:

 

"He (Guardiola) told me the first season in England is really very difficult," Sarri said. "For him, it's impossible to improve the first season 20 players.

"He told me, in the first season, you have to work only on 14 players otherwise you are in trouble. You need too much time to improve all the squad. In England, it's really very difficult."

 

What he's implying here is that the shape and positional play is so complex that if you keep swapping players in and out, you don't build up that cohesion. That's why it doesn't surprise me we've picked the same XI for a few games already. However, the second XI also seemed to be pretty good at the system, so I guess that he's divided the squad up like that so he can get cohesive play amongst all the players, albeit in different XI's, and then later in the season he can mix and match.

[Swalshed]

21 hours ago, StriderHiryu said:

Not quite what you are after, but Neel from Beyone the 90 and I talk about it here:

 

 

 

Yes that is me, I really do like that much of an idiot in real life. If you see met at the ground, feel free to give me pelters!

 

Most of this stuff is covered in the first 15 minutes, and it's all in this thread, but still nice to talk it through. It will beat Match of the Day!

 

 

Really helpful explanation @StriderHiryu. I will try not to get frustrated in the first dozen matches if it's not quite working yet! 🙂🤞

 

Thank you 👍 

[sacreblueits442]

4 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

Couldn't put it better myself! With these complex systems, each player has to know where to stand in many different positions and game states on the pitch. It wasn't perfect, but the players did seem to understand their instructions really well.

 

I'm reminded of a quote from Maurizio Sarri who was Chelsea boss for a while:

 

"He (Guardiola) told me the first season in England is really very difficult," Sarri said. "For him, it's impossible to improve the first season 20 players.

"He told me, in the first season, you have to work only on 14 players otherwise you are in trouble. You need too much time to improve all the squad. In England, it's really very difficult."

 

What he's implying here is that the shape and positional play is so complex that if you keep swapping players in and out, you don't build up that cohesion. That's why it doesn't surprise me we've picked the same XI for a few games already. However, the second XI also seemed to be pretty good at the system, so I guess that he's divided the squad up like that so he can get cohesive play amongst all the players, albeit in different XI's, and then later in the season he can mix and match.

...why England, are players more techically attuned to his methods overseas!!!

[lcfc_forever]

I'd recommend listening to the latest BBC Radio Leicester podcast.

 

Interview with Guillem Balague and so much to get excited about, some key points:

 

1. Maresca had a few choices about where to join but chose Leicester. He's really impressed by Seagrave and the club infrastructure, and the board have entrusted him to put his stamp on the club. 

2. While the coaches have been impressed with how quickly the players have taken to the new style of playing (something @StriderHiryu highlighted), it's just the start - things like the 4-3-3 into 3-4-2-1 will be less obvious, and the players will adapt into more positions and tactics. 

3. Although more players will leave, some players who wanted to leave have changed their mind having worked with Maresca and now want to stay. I wonder if Ricardo is one of them? He's interviewed after the segment with Balague and sounded happy about the new style of play and his role. 

4. Big recruitment focus is now on wingers. He expects the club are looking at 2, if not 3 wingers - that doesn't include Mavididi. 

5. People need to be patient. He hasn't got the players he wants yet, he'll have the squad closer to his vision by the end of the transfer window and the playing style will get more nuanced and diverse. 

 

There's other points I've not covered but I felt optimistic. Appreciate a lot of fans are unhappy with the board and rightly so for the debacle of last season, but looks like they've making strides towards rectifying it with attracting Maresca and the potential he brings. 

[StriderHiryu]

29 minutes ago, lcfc_forever said:

I'd recommend listening to the latest BBC Radio Leicester podcast.

 

Interview with Guillem Balague and so much to get excited about, some key points:

 

1. Maresca had a few choices about where to join but chose Leicester. He's really impressed by Seagrave and the club infrastructure, and the board have entrusted him to put his stamp on the club. 

2. While the coaches have been impressed with how quickly the players have taken to the new style of playing (something @StriderHiryu highlighted), it's just the start - things like the 4-3-3 into 3-4-2-1 will be less obvious, and the players will adapt into more positions and tactics. 

3. Although more players will leave, some players who wanted to leave have changed their mind having worked with Maresca and now want to stay. I wonder if Ricardo is one of them? He's interviewed after the segment with Balague and sounded happy about the new style of play and his role. 

4. Big recruitment focus is now on wingers. He expects the club are looking at 2, if not 3 wingers - that doesn't include Mavididi. 

5. People need to be patient. He hasn't got the players he wants yet, he'll have the squad closer to his vision by the end of the transfer window and the playing style will get more nuanced and diverse. 

 

There's other points I've not covered but I felt optimistic. Appreciate a lot of fans are unhappy with the board and rightly so for the debacle of last season, but looks like they've making strides towards rectifying it with attracting Maresca and the potential he brings. 

You can listen to the podcast here:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02nrw0v/episodes/downloads