Tactics Under Maresca

[Dahnsouff]

10 minutes ago, Lionator said:

Everyone talks about crosses from Albeighton and what not, but who is heading them in? Our team is tiny. 

People suggesting he could cross them low, but don’t recall seeing Marc do that many times.

[Collymore]

12 hours ago, moore_94 said:

I expect they will still be top anyway but the majority of ours will be wrong on that list

Yes. These are the estimated contracts before any relegation release clause. I'd imagine that you could take 30% off all the wages on that list but then still question where this data has come from. 

 

I also don't think Winks would have been given such a big contract at the start of a Championship season either. 

 

[moore_94]

22 minutes ago, Lionator said:

Everyone talks about crosses from Albeighton and what not, but who is heading them in? Our team is tiny. 

I don't think they need to be the kind of crosses for someone to jump high and get onto necessarily, but just putting a bit more pace on them can help cause a bit more chaos in the box or where just a small flick can send it in

 

All of our crosses yesterday were lofted and slow and so easy for their defenders to deal with

 

Albrighton would send it in first time with a bit of pace on it, giving the defenders less chance to get "set" for a cross

 

Obviously he has more space in the below video than he would get against a low block but the cross is pretty much first time, quick, and Vardy barely has to get up to get on to it or put much effort into the header

 

 

Edited 3 March by moore_94

[Matt]

Aside from 'gerrit forward', 'lump it forward', 'pashun', it's all well and good nice 'pretty' football but I just don't see this style of play conducive to seeing performances where you have to do the dirty work, dig it, show abit of grit, steel and determination - that's half the reason around our failures in the last few years, it's all too nice. 

 

Time to stand up and be counted, show abit of fire in the belly and fight.

 

Whilst the results were coming people were saying you couldn't criticise it, there's an element of truth, but results (Not so much performances up until yesterday, because Boro and Leeds were two of the best performances of the season despite the losses) are becoming stagnant, somethings gotta give.

[sishades]

watching us reminds me of this. Insanity.

 

[Mickyblueeyes]

We played a team at home, 2-0 down and got a quick goal back. 
 

When you’re sat top of the league, with international players but there isn’t a siege on the opposition goal, there is something wrong it what you’re doing. It’s that simple. 
 

I’ve got a lot of time for Enzo. He isn’t the problem here. However, this ain’t the time for principles.

[South Shire Fox]

Considering Maresca trys to copy Man City tactics, why is it none of our players ever seem to overlap and provide an option? Walker, De Bruyne, Foden etc are constantly overlapping when a player is trying to beat the full back. We just leave Mavididi isolated and marked by two players which leaves him to pass it backwards/sideways. Gives us so many more attacking options if we overlapped 

[Kinowe Soorie]

Not all tactics but, no 20 plus goals striker, us not scoring from corners, no real leaders, loads of possession and little goal scoring threat, not battered many teams like champions do.

[notnow john]

Coaches have worked out how to neutralise our threat and it’s not just a low block.

How are they accomplishing this @StriderHiryu?

[cityfanlee23]

10 minutes ago, South Shire Fox said:

Considering Maresca trys to copy Man City tactics, why is it none of our players ever seem to overlap and provide an option? Walker, De Bruyne, Foden etc are constantly overlapping when a player is trying to beat the full back. We just leave Mavididi isolated and marked by two players which leaves him to pass it backwards/sideways. Gives us so many more attacking options if we overlapped 

I think controlling the ball is pretty much the only aspect of Man City’s play that we have adopted. Man City are very effective at “pushing the button” to attack, they go long, they play through balls through the middle, they have overlapping full backs. We don’t really attempt any of that, I think we assumed he was trying to adopt Man City’s style but in the end we are quite far away, and to be honest I no longer believe it’s because we don’t have the players capable of doing it, the parts of our game that are missing are often the most simple aspects of the game (overlapping wingbacks) 

[HarryDee8]

What is our Plan B? cos if we make the premier league, we gonna need that aswell

[Buzzard]

Unpopular opinion... have we really been any worse these last few games?

 

Early on in the season we had teams turn up at the KP and miss 3 or 4 chances. In the last couple of matches we've seen Leeds and QPR be absolutely clinical (or lucky). 

[Chelmofox]

30 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

Unpopular opinion... have we really been any worse these last few games?

 

Early on in the season we had teams turn up at the KP and miss 3 or 4 chances. In the last couple of matches we've seen Leeds and QPR be absolutely clinical (or lucky). 

This is what i am clinging on to. 3 loses is horrible, but as i see it:

• Middlesbrough played the game / tactics of their season and managed to cling on. The most obvious part of this was them going on to lose their next 2 games.
• Leeds were largely outplayed by us, and a stupid offside call and brain farts meant we didn't extent the lead.  Fair play to them for the last 10 mins.
• QPR gave the best example of sh1thousery ive seen all season. 2 frikin shots on target and a tonne of parking the bus and gamesmanship that didn't get penalised.

Middlesbrough deserve their victory and fair play to Leeds for taking advantage of our bad luck, but the QPR one hurts. Difference between QPR and many who have come before is they took the 2 chances they had. How likely is it that the next team like QPR who come to the KP are 100% lethal in front of goal.

 

Although we have some significant issues (such as no fit no 8 and a leaky defence) I think playing away to a team who aren't going to park the bus will likely help. All depends on how Sunderland setup and if they go super defensive if they are capable of doing what QPR or Borough did.

Edited 3 March by Chelmofox

[Chelmofox]

1 hour ago, notnow john said:

Coaches have worked out how to neutralise our threat and it’s not just a low block.

How are they accomplishing this @StriderHiryu?

I'm no StriderHiryu, but I came home yesterday after watching QPR complete the ultimate low block game yesterday. They offered nothing in the 1st half until their goal, which was their first significant attack in our box. 2nd half was no different and they scored one of their only chances from that free kick (Nelson slipping massively helped there).  I believe Mads made no saves yesterday - which is absolutely insane.

 

For me, Middlesbrough provided the blueprint for how to beat us.  Setup defensively and flood the midfield and wing areas. Nullify winks, double up on Mavididi and Fatawu as much as possible. Once you have everyone back and we are cycle possession around the box, the gamble is that our 8 and 10's don't have the quality to create much through the middle and the wingers don't have the space to cut in effectively - we will likely try and force something that ultimately doesn't pay off. KDH is an engine but isn't a brilliant technical player, and so we don't have that cutting quality to break anyone down. Winks doesn't really come forward much and when the box is congested, we don't get the best out of Vardy / Daka.

 

For the opposition, if we positionally switch off (aka Nelson / Hamza in the 1st half yesterday), you have to take your chance. Many teams simply haven't been that clinical, but QPR and Borough were. QPR came to our game confident after some decent results which obviously helped them. If you are a team struggling then its very difficult to pull this off.

 

We don't have the quality to break down a team doing the low block really confidently. 

Edited 3 March by Chelmofox

[KFS]

I’ve come to the conclusion that there were one too many ‘experiments’ yesterday, and that’s ultimately why we came unstuck. I think he tried to be a bit too clever and it’s ultimately landed him with egg on his face. For example:

 

- JJ trying to ‘invert’ 

- KDH on the right 

- Not starting Coady and bringing in Nelson

Neither of the 8’s could turn to play their passes (Akgun was poor and KDH on the wrong side), and neither provided running support either. You had two poor ball players in Hamza and JJ given way too much time on the ball, and all of the above ended in a shit show. 
 

No Pereira, Ndidi and a second 8 (Casadei) means he’s going to have to look for some inspiration out of the academy for Tuesday’s game. Please god don’t try and get a tune out of this system team with round pegs in square holes. It’s clear from yesterday that doesn’t work.

 

If he goes back to basics and Sunderland don’t get ridiculously statistically lucky like QPR did, we’ll be fine this week. If Wilf is indeed back for Saturday then we can survive with one senior player out in Pereira, but not both. Yesterday we carried 4-5 players.

[Tom12345]

12 minutes ago, KFS said:

I’ve come to the conclusion that there were one too many ‘experiments’ yesterday, and that’s ultimately why we came unstuck. I think he tried to be a bit too clever and it’s ultimately landed him with egg on his face. For example:

 

- JJ trying to ‘invert’ 

- KDH on the right 

- Not starting Coady and bringing in Nelson

Neither of the 8’s could turn to play their passes (Akgun was poor and KDH on the wrong side), and neither provided running support either. You had two poor ball players in Hamza and JJ given way too much time on the ball, and all of the above ended in a shit show. 
 

No Pereira, Ndidi and a second 8 (Casadei) means he’s going to have to look for some inspiration out of the academy for Tuesday’s game. Please god don’t try and get a tune out of this system team with round pegs in square holes. It’s clear from yesterday that doesn’t work.

 

If he goes back to basics and Sunderland don’t get ridiculously statistically lucky like QPR did, we’ll be fine this week. If Wilf is indeed back for Saturday then we can survive with one senior player out in Pereira, but not both. Yesterday we carried 4-5 players.

It is not. Simply, this is part of a long term trend. We are now becoming too predictable and too slow. We constantly let QPR settle when we attack. QPR succeeded in their low block because of us. We just pass pass and pass backwards to give them plenty of time to settle.

[KFS]

4 minutes ago, Tom12345 said:

It is not. Simply, this is part of a long term trend. We are now becoming too predictable and too slow. We constantly let QPR settle when we attack. QPR succeeded in their low block because of us. We just pass pass and pass backwards to give them plenty of time to settle.

It’s personnel for me imo mate. Better (suited to their roles) 8s pass quicker and at an acute angle for the winger. Stephy just kept getting this flat, shit, sideways ball from Akgun all game yesterday (if he could even control it). Even Casadei would’ve played well yesterday.

 

Not strengthening in Jan could be a real **** up here. 

[cityfanlee23]

14 minutes ago, KFS said:

It’s personnel for me imo mate. Better (suited to their roles) 8s pass quicker and at an acute angle for the winger. Stephy just kept getting this flat, shit, sideways ball from Akgun all game yesterday (if he could even control it). Even Casadei would’ve played well yesterday.

 

Not strengthening in Jan could be a real **** up here. 

Only if Enzo refuses to change. 
If he plays to the teams strengths a bit more but within a loose structure of controlling the ball we have more than enough quality to comfortably go up. 
 

If he continues to be stubborn and refuses to change even when it’s clearly not working in relation to the opposition setup, personnel, or both, then we could end up in trouble. I have absolutely no faith in his ability to put his ideals aside so I’m just hoping we have enough quality to get this over the line. 

[KFS]

4 minutes ago, cityfanlee23 said:

Only if Enzo refuses to change. 
If he plays to the teams strengths a bit more but within a loose structure of controlling the ball we have more than enough quality to comfortably go up. 
 

If he continues to be stubborn and refuses to change even when it’s clearly not working in relation to the opposition setup, personnel, or both, then we could end up in trouble. I have absolutely no faith in his ability to put his ideals aside so I’m just hoping we have enough quality to get this over the line. 

What do you suggest, Lee?

[Kierzz]

52 minutes ago, KFS said:

I’ve come to the conclusion that there were one too many ‘experiments’ yesterday, and that’s ultimately why we came unstuck. I think he tried to be a bit too clever and it’s ultimately landed him with egg on his face. For example:

 

- JJ trying to ‘invert’ 

- KDH on the right 

- Not starting Coady and bringing in Nelson

Neither of the 8’s could turn to play their passes (Akgun was poor and KDH on the wrong side), and neither provided running support either. You had two poor ball players in Hamza and JJ given way too much time on the ball, and all of the above ended in a shit show. 
 

No Pereira, Ndidi and a second 8 (Casadei) means he’s going to have to look for some inspiration out of the academy for Tuesday’s game. Please god don’t try and get a tune out of this system team with round pegs in square holes. It’s clear from yesterday that doesn’t work.

 

If he goes back to basics and Sunderland don’t get ridiculously statistically lucky like QPR did, we’ll be fine this week. If Wilf is indeed back for Saturday then we can survive with one senior player out in Pereira, but not both. Yesterday we carried 4-5 players.

When Vestergaard comes back, it wouldn't suprise me if he tries to play him in the John Stones 'hybrid' CB role instead of playing an inverted full back like Choudhury / Ricardo. So vestergaard would step into midfield alongside winks when in possession and a back three will stay behind him (Justin Faes Coady or similar). 

 

Bold statement... but I think he rates winks and Vestergaard as the best in possession in our squad.

Edited 3 March by Kierzz
Typo

[Dahnsouff]

49 minutes ago, KFS said:

It’s personnel for me imo mate. Better (suited to their roles) 8s pass quicker and at an acute angle for the winger. Stephy just kept getting this flat, shit, sideways ball from Akgun all game yesterday (if he could even control it). Even Casadei would’ve played well yesterday.

 

Not strengthening in Jan could be a real **** up here. 

Why did we need to strengthen, I am forever hearing we have the best squad in the league.

[Matt]

I'm seeing and hearing alot mentioned of sideways and backwards passing something I made a big thing of last season.

 

Personally I wouldn't say there was alot of sideways and backwards passing, not when i'm using last season as the yardstick anyway.

 

I thought we played alot in their half, alot around their box, we just looked clueless when it came to getting in their box, with little to no quality, constantly repeating and recycling the same moves, predictable and too easy.

[cityfanlee23]

39 minutes ago, KFS said:

What do you suggest, Lee?

Thankfully I’m not paid to fix these issues, but my thoughts would be if you don’t have the players to play a very specific and complex way, don’t play that way until you do, play a way that works to their strengths, and try to implement the system over time.

 

So far it’s worked out but if we keep dropping points something has to give as the teams around us are playing pragmatic football and they are cutting the gap. 

[Tuna]

15 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Why did we need to strengthen, I am forever hearing we have the best squad in the league.

Best squad is a bit of misnomer if you have players in it who don't fit in to the style of play; we needed more wingers as cover and competition, more creativity through the middle

[Dahnsouff]

1 minute ago, Tuna said:

Best squad is a bit of misnomer if you have players in it who don't fit in to the style of play; we needed more wingers as cover and competition, more creativity through the middle

That memo was not widely circulated.