Climate Change - a poll

[leicsmac]

20 minutes ago, Benguin said:

For atheist friends, how would you distinguish between the latter two options? Arent they one and the same? 
 

2nd option for me 

 

9 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

I would ask you to reconsider this question, because I think your premise might get challenged forcefully.

Yeah, it's reasonably elementary to consider homo sapiens as an animal species and no more special in purpose than the next one and still consider this particular matter, their effect on the Earths climate, as something they contribute much more to than other animals.

 

That's really not a difficult distinction to hold.

[Scanchez]

Slightly concerned that if we did a poll to see if the world was flat we'd get a mixed bag of responses.

[leicsmac]

32 minutes ago, Scanchez said:

Slightly concerned that if we did a poll to see if the world was flat we'd get a mixed bag of responses.

I think we might, but I think that would be pisstakers rather than genuine cranks. Hopefully, anyhow.

 

With this matter, it's a bit different - alongside the cranks and the pisstakers you have the people simply in denial about what it all means because they don't want to be inconvenienced materially or otherwise, so they either deny it wholesale in spite of the overwhelming evidence or they consider it an abstract issue that they themselves need not be concerned about. Of course, long term this is a horrendous and likely fatal miscalculation, for reasons I've made plain before.

 

Again as per before, I can understand such denial and wilful ignorance, but it is still not excusable.

[fox_up_north]

Sadly, like covid, I don't see change happening until it is forced upon us. Many will die but, hopefully, those who survive will have a somewhat nicer world - eventually.

[leicsmac]

8 minutes ago, fox_up_north said:

Sadly, like covid, I don't see change happening until it is forced upon us. Many will die but, hopefully, those who survive will have a somewhat nicer world - eventually.

This might well be true, but I really hope not because firstly, it would be nice to have the death and suffering of countless millions as a fait accompli, and this issue has the potential - combined with other factors - to make that "eventually" a long, long way away. If ever.

[st albans fox]

7 hours ago, Scanchez said:

Slightly concerned that if we did a poll to see if the world was flat we'd get a mixed bag of responses.

Go on do it 

I reckon a few will say flat just because they can !

[Innovindil]

54 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Go on do it 

I reckon a few will say flat just because they can !

I voted not real just to wind mac up, so probably true. 

[leicsmac]

8 hours ago, Innovindil said:

I voted not real just to wind mac up, so probably true. 

Always knew that you were a smart pisstaker not nearly daft enough to disregard the scientific method, Inno.

Edited 21 July 2023 by leicsmac

[st albans fox]

10 hours ago, Innovindil said:

I voted not real just to wind mac up, so probably true. 

Were you no 7? 

[Innovindil]

3 hours ago, st albans fox said:

Were you no 7? 

I was indeed. Hopefully the other 6 were just taking the piss but I doubt it 

[leicsmac]

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-66229065

 

A series of climate records on temperature, ocean heat, and Antarctic sea ice have alarmed some scientists who say their speed and timing is "unprecedented".

Dangerous heatwaves sweeping Europe could break further records, according to the UN.

 

Record breaking! How very proud our species must be.

[ozleicester]

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-66229065

 

A series of climate records on temperature, ocean heat, and Antarctic sea ice have alarmed some scientists who say their speed and timing is "unprecedented".

Dangerous heatwaves sweeping Europe could break further records, according to the UN.

 

Record breaking! How very proud our species must be.

[fox_up_north]

Since moving on to SEG (later than I'd liked because Eon are useless), I've exported 32kwh this past couple of weeks. I've given back. 

 

Yet it feels, ultimately, a bit pointless.

[leicsmac]

13 minutes ago, fox_up_north said:

Since moving on to SEG (later than I'd liked because Eon are useless), I've exported 32kwh this past couple of weeks. I've given back. 

 

Yet it feels, ultimately, a bit pointless.

A lot of people doing a little thing adds up. Don't despair.

[nnfox]

6 hours ago, leicsmac said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-66229065

 

A series of climate records on temperature, ocean heat, and Antarctic sea ice have alarmed some scientists who say their speed and timing is "unprecedented".

Dangerous heatwaves sweeping Europe could break further records, according to the UN.

 

Record breaking! How very proud our species must be.

I read this article.  There's a part of me that thinks we've reached a point of no return and things are going to get pretty ugly, pretty quickly - much quicker than folk thought.

[leicsmac]

1 minute ago, nnfox said:

I read this article.  There's a part of me that thinks we've reached a point of no return and things are going to get pretty ugly, pretty quickly - much quicker than folk thought.

It's pretty damn scary, that's for sure.

 

I have to believe the possibility that we can at least still mitigate the damage both present and future, but the more we don't do everything that is needed, the higher that cost - both present and future, materially and lives - is going to be.

[gerblod]

On 20/07/2023 at 05:51, leicsmac said:

Yeah, that's it, really.

 

I would add that in addition to reducing consumption where we can, we need to push for additional/better tech solutions, because people won't accept what they believe to be a drop in their living standards (and nor should they given human ingenuity) unless it is forced upon them by nature, by which point it is of course too late. Fighting this while preventing any kind of regression is the only way I see much success.

I grew up in a coal-fire heated, solid stone wall cottage - only cold water supplied, outside toilet, 'zinc' bath etc, etc.

A friend, who'd grown up in similar circumstances, stated that he'd never realised, as a child, the poverty he'd lived in. I've never accepted that as a concrete basis for what is essentially a subjective assessment. Everyone around me was in the same circumstances. The prime motivation was keeping income ahead of expenditure - there was no emphasis on attaining 'conspicuous consumption' status.

Interestingly, as the Americans developed more and more electric and electronic  consumer goods, the amount of money available to spend on these 'essentials' also burgeoned. It's become a first world addiction funded by paper money which has no underlying value.

People become accustomed to coveting the stuff that's continually offered to them by business - better televisions, better mobiles, better cars, more remote holidays and more unique experiences. I strongly suspect you're correct in stating that these 'prizes' won't be given up by the generations that have been indulged in them in by the growth-consumption-profit model.

The current emphasis is on saving the planet - that's disingenuous - it's about a conscious concerted effort by humanity to stop the damage humanity is inflicting on itself and the environment outside of its built societies.

I believe it's necessary to allow children the education which enables them to consider why this global damage is happening and to allow them to think and act 'outside the box' in effecting change.

We're conditioned to conform and only shuck that conditioning by rebelling against formal government/society. What humanity really needs is successive generations of free-thinkers who combine to thrash out how to create the model for change.

When people turn violent on protestors it shows just how desperate we are to keep the status quo - which is as 'willing slaves' to a system that allows us to buy what it wants us to buy, yet allows us no time to feed our individual spiritual being. Peasants in the middle ages were probably, in spite of their living conditions, innately more fulfilled than we moderns.

 

 

[leicsmac]

1 minute ago, gerblod said:

I grew up in a coal-fire heated, solid stone wall cottage - only cold water supplied, outside toilet, 'zinc' bath etc, etc.

A friend, who'd grown up in similar circumstances, stated that he'd never realised, as a child, the poverty he'd lived in. I've never accepted that as a concrete basis for what is essentially a subjective assessment. Everyone around me was in the same circumstances. The prime motivation was keeping income ahead of expenditure - there was no emphasis on attaining 'conspicuous consumption' status.

Interestingly, as the Americans developed more and more electric and electronic  consumer goods, the amount of money available to spend on these 'essentials' also burgeoned. It's become a first world addiction funded by paper money which has no underlying value.

People become accustomed to coveting the stuff that's continually offered to them by business - better televisions, better mobiles, better cars, more remote holidays and more unique experiences. I strongly suspect you're correct in stating that these 'prizes' won't be given up by the generations that have been indulged in them in by the growth-consumption-profit model.

The current emphasis is on saving the planet - that's disingenuous - it's about a conscious concerted effort by humanity to stop the damage humanity is inflicting on itself and the environment outside of its built societies.

I believe it's necessary to allow children the education which enables them to consider why this global damage is happening and to allow them to think and act 'outside the box' in effecting change.

We're conditioned to conform and only shuck that conditioning by rebelling against formal government/society. What humanity really needs is successive generations of free-thinkers who combine to thrash out how to create the model for change.

When people turn violent on protestors it shows just how desperate we are to keep the status quo - which is as 'willing slaves' to a system that allows us to buy what it wants us to buy, yet allows us no time to feed our individual spiritual being. Peasants in the middle ages were probably, in spite of their living conditions, innately more fulfilled than we moderns.

 

 

I wouldn't necessarily agree with the bolded simply because there were so many horrific ways to suffer and die back then that we have a better handle on today. I think that has a noticeable effect on fulfillment.

 

However, I think the rest is spot on, and of course given the Earth abhors stagnation, people wedded to the status quo, along with everyone else, are going to get a pretty nasty wake-up call if things continue as they are.

[Lionator]

37 minutes ago, gerblod said:

I grew up in a coal-fire heated, solid stone wall cottage - only cold water supplied, outside toilet, 'zinc' bath etc, etc.

A friend, who'd grown up in similar circumstances, stated that he'd never realised, as a child, the poverty he'd lived in. I've never accepted that as a concrete basis for what is essentially a subjective assessment. Everyone around me was in the same circumstances. The prime motivation was keeping income ahead of expenditure - there was no emphasis on attaining 'conspicuous consumption' status.

Interestingly, as the Americans developed more and more electric and electronic  consumer goods, the amount of money available to spend on these 'essentials' also burgeoned. It's become a first world addiction funded by paper money which has no underlying value.

People become accustomed to coveting the stuff that's continually offered to them by business - better televisions, better mobiles, better cars, more remote holidays and more unique experiences. I strongly suspect you're correct in stating that these 'prizes' won't be given up by the generations that have been indulged in them in by the growth-consumption-profit model.

The current emphasis is on saving the planet - that's disingenuous - it's about a conscious concerted effort by humanity to stop the damage humanity is inflicting on itself and the environment outside of its built societies.

I believe it's necessary to allow children the education which enables them to consider why this global damage is happening and to allow them to think and act 'outside the box' in effecting change.

We're conditioned to conform and only shuck that conditioning by rebelling against formal government/society. What humanity really needs is successive generations of free-thinkers who combine to thrash out how to create the model for change.

When people turn violent on protestors it shows just how desperate we are to keep the status quo - which is as 'willing slaves' to a system that allows us to buy what it wants us to buy, yet allows us no time to feed our individual spiritual being. Peasants in the middle ages were probably, in spite of their living conditions, innately more fulfilled than we moderns.

 

 

There is no such thing as a free thinking identity. We can all be a free thinker who can critically analyse something but it’s just an identity that has led to the uprising of idiots like Matt LeTissier who call themselves free thinkers but are actually just conforming to an alternative warped view of the world. 
 

The only way that change will truly happen is the overwhelming rejection of Reaganomics/Ultra Capitalism which has gripped the world since the 1980’s, or perhaps more extremely, since the Industrial Revolution. However, rejection of that gets you called a communist. We are so entrenched in it that it’s irreversible and climate breakdown is the consequence. Even modern liberals are obsessed with the ‘markets’. Like wtf???

[cityfanlee23]

On 17/07/2023 at 14:06, The Doctor said:

It's obviously real, obviously human caused (or rather human accelerated, there are natural cycles of climate throughout the earth's history but it doesn't change this rapidly as part of a natural cycle). The issue is just what can you do about it. Going vegan, giving up your car etc is a fart in a hurricane compared to the massive pollution of industry and the billionaires and lobbyists that the government is run for (and that won't change with a change in ruling party, Ser Brylcream will sing from the same hymnsheet as Sunak on all this)

Whilst true it’s still important we take steps that we can as individuals to help. Ultimately the government is one of the key drivers of change, which is why as frustrating as they can be, protest groups like Extinction Rebellion and JSO are neccesary. It’s evidently clear that although most individuals will do the odd bit where they turn off the lights etc, most people are so caught up in other problems in their lives they just do whatever they need to get by, until government forces corporations to change we will continue to sleep walk into disaster. The problem is it’s the people who need to force the government to act, but there’s always a more immediate distraction which leads to the can being kicked down the road.  

[SpacedX]

5 hours ago, Lionator said:

There is no such thing as a free thinking identity. We can all be a free thinker who can critically analyse something but it’s just an identity that has led to the uprising of idiots like Matt LeTissier who call themselves free thinkers but are actually just conforming to an alternative warped view of the world. 

There are a worrying amount of members on this forum that identify as such. 

[leicsmac]

More unprecedented wildfires across Europe, Rhodes appears to be pretty much consumed by them.

[leicsmac]

Of course, the asteroid didn't announce its presence and offer the opportunity to be dodged.

 

 ... does that make our species smarter or less smart than the dinosaurs, do you think?

[Parafox]

5 hours ago, leicsmac said:

Of course, the asteroid didn't announce its presence and offer the opportunity to be dodged.

 

 ... does that make our species smarter or less smart than the dinosaurs, do you think?

Jeez. They could do with sweating off a bit of that water retention they have.

[Sparrowhawk]

6 hours ago, leicsmac said:

Of course, the asteroid didn't announce its presence and offer the opportunity to be dodged.

 

 ... does that make our species smarter or less smart than the dinosaurs, do you think?

We're way smarter. The stupid dinosaurs had to wait around until something came along to wipe them out.* We're so clever, we've managed to make our own species-ending 'asteroid.'

Suck on that, dinosaurs.

 

* Well, a lot of them. I know birds are still around.