Would you support us in a breakaway league with an online streaming service?

[Foxin_Mad]

1 hour ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

Crazy concept, but we could try not breaking the rules instead.

With respect, the rules are dogshit. 

[Sol thewall Bamba]

7 minutes ago, Foxin_Mad said:

With respect, the rules are dogshit. 

Don't disagree, but others are competent enough to not break them.

[rugbyblue]

I'd be happy enough if the big six ****ed off to a super league.  They've helped to  ruin top flight football.  This would leave clubs with half a chance of winning something, more competitive games and possibly sky would go and w*nk off over them elsewhere rather than subject us (or rather those that have sky) to their weekly worship of them.    I'd wave them off......apart from a few hangers on, the majority of people go to see their team play, not the opposition anyway.  I'd go (and have)  whether it was man city or Colchester opposite us and I'm sure many feel the same. 

Edited 22 March by rugbyblue

[dmayne7]

5 hours ago, Saxondale said:

We should be looking extremely closely at the Bundesliga. They seem to have the model spot on.

 

* Fans have majority voting rights

* Tickets are cheap as chips

* Big teams can - and do - get relegated 

* Well-organised, subsidised travel to games

As has been pointed out, sadly it's dominated by one side and even Leverkusen's success is just going to lead to them being asset stripped by Bayern and other clubs.

 

Massive issue is also the fact that the money in the league is so heavily tied to prize money, as opposed to a more even distribution via TV revenue, so that's just another mechanism for ensuring the teams at the top stay there.

[dmayne7]

5 hours ago, Saxondale said:

We should be looking extremely closely at the Bundesliga. They seem to have the model spot on.

 

* Fans have majority voting rights

* Tickets are cheap as chips

* Big teams can - and do - get relegated 

* Well-organised, subsidised travel to games

As has been pointed out, sadly it's dominated by one side and even Leverkusen's success is just going to lead to them being asset stripped by Bayern and other clubs.

 

Massive issue is also the fact that the money in the league is so heavily tied to prize money, as opposed to a more even distribution via TV revenue, so that's just another mechanism for ensuring the teams at the top stay there.

[LeePhilpottsBaldSpot]

No. We should just accept the penalty for breaking the rules.

[dmayne7]

5 hours ago, Saxondale said:

 

Edit: Double post

Edited 22 March by dmayne7
Double post

[Lambert09]

5 hours ago, Saxondale said:

We should be looking extremely closely at the Bundesliga. They seem to have the model spot on.

 

* Fans have majority voting rights

* Tickets are cheap as chips

* Big teams can - and do - get relegated 

* Well-organised, subsidised travel to games

without much knowledge on it, surely there must be some bud towards bayern though? 

 

Or is it just that they do things right the majority of the time? 

[Foxin_Mad]

1 hour ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

Don't disagree, but others are competent enough to not break them.

I wonder are they though? Im struggling to see how some clubs have, or will comply in the coming years/months. Its likely more will come, its seems they go after the clubs they have a personal vendeta against first. 

 

Anyone who does comply likely has some dubious transactions in there. I actually dont think it is possible to sustain as a Premier League club without either selling your best players every so year and rebuilding (risking relegatioN) or having a huge external income from other sources.

 

One of our problems was we dared to compete. some of that was also during covid when some traditional revenue streams dried up. Theres definately deficiencies in the way the club is run, but it tends to be the more abitious clubs that are getting hit and will be hit. 

 

Its almost like the authorities want us to bow and be thankful of our existence thanks to our mighty big six masters.

 

They need to be careful, without clubs like Leicester, Villa etc the Premier League is nothing as an entertainment spectacle.  

Edited 22 March by Foxin_Mad

[Sol thewall Bamba]

6 minutes ago, Foxin_Mad said:

I wonder are they though? Im struggling to see how some clubs have, or will comply in the coming years/months. Its likely more will come, its seems they go after the clubs they have a personal vendeta against first. 

 

Anyone who does comply likely has some dubious transactions in there. I actually dont think it is possible to sustain as a Premier League club without either selling your best players every so year and rebuilding (risking relegatioN) or having a huge external income from other sources.

 

One of our problems was we dared to compete. some of that was also during covid when some traditional revenue streams dried up. Theres definately deficiencies in the way the club is run, but it tends to be the more abitious clubs that are getting hit and will be hit. 

 

Its almost like the authorities want us to bow and be thankful of our existence thanks to our mighty big six masters.

 

They need to be careful, without clubs like Leicester, Villa etc the Premier League is nothing as an entertainment spectacle.  

What would you do to chance to rules? What level of loss do you feel is acceptable? Or would you remove the cap of losses entirely?

[trooky]

No

[Foxin_Mad]

20 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

What would you do to chance to rules? What level of loss do you feel is acceptable? Or would you remove the cap of losses entirely?

I dont necessarily find the loss aspect a problem, but it needs more along side it.

 

Maybe if the owners agree to underwrite losses officially or whatever it should be allowed, or how can clubs ever grow and compete?

 

Something needs to be done to stop the disparity betwen the big six and the rest else the gap will only grow. At present they can just cherry pick the best players, there was a point where clubs could demand huge fees for their best players from the rich six, this now means they pretty much have to go begging for the big six to buy their best players to abide by the rules, so all the power is back with the rich six. 

 

Something needs to be done to level it up a bit.

 

Of course the big six and those running the leagues likely want to maintain the status quo, which is exactly what FFP and PSR will do briliantly. The rules only really make sense if there is a level playing field, which there isnt. Maybe in Leagues 1 and 2 it works better. 

 

Edited 22 March by Foxin_Mad

[Footballwipe]

3 minutes ago, Foxin_Mad said:

I dont necessarily find the loss aspect a problem, but it needs more along side it.

 

Maybe if the owners agree to udderwrite losses officially or whatever it should be allowed, or how can clubs ever grow and compete?

 

Something needs to be done to stop the disparity betwen the big six and the rest else the gap will only grow. At present they can just cherry pick the best players, there was a point where clubs could demand huge fees for their best players from the rich six, this now means they pretty much have to go begging for the big six to buy their best players to abide by the rules, so all the power is back with the rich six. 

 

Something needs to be done to level it up a bit.

 

Of course the big six and those running the leagues likely want to maintain the status quo, which is exactly what FFP and PSR will do briliantly. The rules only really make sense if there is a level playing field, which there isnt. Maybe in Leagues 1 and 2 it works better. 

 

The people who run the league are the member clubs. If they want rid of PSR call a meeting and get 14/20 clubs to vote it out or change it so that the loss trigger point is higher. The Premier League senior staff carry out the wishes of the member clubs.

 

The conspiracy bullshit being spouted on here is as scary as it is hilarious. It is literally within the PL clubs wish to modify or scrap this. It's not FIFA, It's not UEFA, it's not the illuminati, it's not the media, it's not a cartel of suits who hate Everton, Forest and ourselves. Why aren't PL club fans lobbying their ownership hard to get this changed? Why?

Edited 22 March by Footballwipe

[Foxin_Mad]

1 minute ago, Footballwipe said:

 

 

The conspiracy bullshit being spouted on here is as scary as it is hilarious. It is literally within the PL clubs wish to modify or scrap this. It's not FIFA, It's not UEFA, it's not the illuminate, it's not the media, it's not a cartel of suits who hate Everton, Forest and ourselves. Why aren't PL club fans lobbying their ownership hard to get this changed? Why?

Probabaly because a lot of fans dont understand it.  Premier League clubs will vote for whatever lies they are told, they will be sold the dream of being part of this 'great establishment' and how fair this makes it, for Premier League clubs it actually makes the gap between the Premier League and Championship bigger too, so relegation become less of an issue. Its possibly fine during the good times but not during others. 

 

I dont really understand how it is possible for a club like Bournemouth not to break these rules, they havent really excelled in player sales, they have very little commercial revenue or fan base. Even if they do meet the rules, they never have any hope of progressing from eternal relegation fodder. 

 

Its much the same question as why do the British public keep voting to keep the rich, rich and make themselves poorer? I dont know but it keeps happening! Turkeys voting for Christmas with limited information?!

[davieG]

25 minutes ago, Foxin_Mad said:

those running the leagues likely want to maintain the status quo

14 of the clubs have the power to change it therefore as I see it there's always 14 poor clubs in there. So it's not the greedy 6 running it it's the rest pandering to them or having delusions that they can join them.

 

Even if the PL income was more evenly distributed it won't make a massive difference, sure it'll make the rest more competitive but it wont impact to much on the 6 as it's UEFA that have messed up the leagues with their constant  bowing to the established elite and altering the Euro Competitions to such and extent that the income from that sustains those clubs at the top.

[Sly]

2 hours ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

Don't disagree, but others are competent enough to not break them.

I can see more starting to fail it though, as the rules are farcical. 

[Chrysalis]

8 hours ago, Aus Fox said:

 Nah couldn’t support that, even if you got rid of the big 6, eventually in the world we live in, 4 or 5 teams would amass more money and control all of the power in the league and we’d be back to square one. 

The English football pyramid needs a strong league structure from top to bottom, i think it would be better for the game if they just brought in a straightforward spending cap.

In the Premier League you can spend x number of pounds on all football outlays - coaching, players transfer fees etc. per season, in the championship it’s a little less and so on down.

Whatever the % difference is between the spending of two divisions, every relegated player automatically has their contract adjusted by that amount - no club has any unfair advantage, and players might just fight a bit more at the end of the season.

You could have all players that have played 3 or more years in the academy outside of the spending model if you really wanted to encourage growth and player development.

This is the real solution, but whats stopping it? The bigger clubs.

 

These clubs feel their historical success gives them the right to have a built in embedded long term advantage in the form of FFP.  Propose a simple playing budget cap or wage cap to these clubs, and they will throw a hissy fit saying its not fair, they wont be able to compete in Europe blah blah.

 

The UEFA competitions take it even further, not only do they have FFP, but they give out money based on historical success in the form of coefficient payments.  The biggest leagues get the most clubs that dont have to go through qualifiers, the biggest clubs get paid extra simply for taking part based on coefficient, I remember doing the maths when we was in the CL, which wasnt long after they introduced this system, if we won the competition we would have got less prize money than Real Madrid if they went out in the group phase.

https://arxiv.org/pdf/2206.11746.pdf

Clubs who regularly qualify, win a game or two every year, will have more coefficient than a club that qualifies once and wins the competition. 

[Dan LCFC]

8 hours ago, Saxondale said:

We should be looking extremely closely at the Bundesliga. They seem to have the model spot on.

 

* Fans have majority voting rights

* Tickets are cheap as chips

* Big teams can - and do - get relegated 

* Well-organised, subsidised travel to games

I think if the entire thing went bust and it started again, then we'd have to go for this kind of model. You get quite good TV money in the Bundesliga now too, so it isn't like the teams are going to be left behind forever. I do think there's a world where the league gets a bit stronger.

 

The problem is the Premier League has been too big a success for it to go down this route. It would have to reform in this state upon it going bang, which I think PSR in its current state would actually do. They will fix that before it actually happens though.

 

Some of the big clubs in Germany have a lot to answer for. Dortmund especially in recent years. Fair play to Leverkusen on this season but you do fear next year will just be a return to a Bayern cakewalk as Leverkusen have been picked to bits and Dortmund continue to trip over themselves.

[Dan LCFC]

5 hours ago, Sir Steve Howard said:

Some would counter this by saying Leverkusen are going to win it this year but your point still stands.

Highly likely Bayern will be swooping in for their manager and best player(s) come the end of the season.

Worst thing about the Bundesliga is that as soon as any team gets close to Bayern they raid them for their best assets and nobody can do anything about it

Too many of the bigger clubs in Germany aren't ambitious enough. I'm all for making money via sales and reinvesting but Dortmund are surely at a point where they have to try and properly challenge Bayern rather than be a feeder club. I think you should sell and reinvest until you're in the Champions League and then start really going for it. Too many German clubs just never quite get to this level. I'll be interested to see what Leverkusen do in the summer.

[Sly]

So……. My idea about a breakaway league? 

[Corky]

7 hours ago, Footballwipe said:

The people who run the league are the member clubs. If they want rid of PSR call a meeting and get 14/20 clubs to vote it out or change it so that the loss trigger point is higher. The Premier League senior staff carry out the wishes of the member clubs.

 

The conspiracy bullshit being spouted on here is as scary as it is hilarious. It is literally within the PL clubs wish to modify or scrap this. It's not FIFA, It's not UEFA, it's not the illuminati, it's not the media, it's not a cartel of suits who hate Everton, Forest and ourselves. Why aren't PL club fans lobbying their ownership hard to get this changed? Why?

But the rules brought in during 2013 were clearly designed to punish us for winning the league three years later. Anyone can see that.

[Lako42]

The fact this has been posted in a serious manner tells you everything about football. 

 

It's gone 

[TheLittleBigMan]

As-long as it's free, doesn't stop working every 5 minutes and no pop up porno's happen, while i'm watching the game with mum - It's a yes from me. 

[sishades]

22 hours ago, TeamRocket said:

I would if it means saving football don't think will have issue getting streaming service with netflix and amazon wanting to invest in sports

Considering how easy it is to watch football (even in the championship) on unofficial streams for free, why would anyone then pay for a stream on the two outlets mentioned?

[sishades]

15 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

The problem is the Premier League has been too big a success for it to go down this route.

If the premier league is so successful then why are nearly all of the clubs in debt. In any other business they would be shutdown. Even Man Ure are up to their eyeballs in the red.I can only think of Arsenal, Spuds, and Plymouth who are profitable. Somewhere along the line the fat lady is going to warble very loudly. I would rather LCFC be profitable in the championship than bankrupt trying to chase a dream