Would you support us in a breakaway league with an online streaming service?

[sishades]

16 hours ago, Chrysalis said:

This is the real solution, but whats stopping it? The bigger clubs.

 

These clubs feel their historical success gives them the right to have a built in embedded long term advantage in the form of FFP.  Propose a simple playing budget cap or wage cap to these clubs, and they will throw a hissy fit saying its not fair, they wont be able to compete in Europe blah blah.

 

The UEFA competitions take it even further, not only do they have FFP, but they give out money based on historical success in the form of coefficient payments.  The biggest leagues get the most clubs that dont have to go through qualifiers, the biggest clubs get paid extra simply for taking part based on coefficient, I remember doing the maths when we was in the CL, which wasnt long after they introduced this system, if we won the competition we would have got less prize money than Real Madrid if they went out in the group phase.

https://arxiv.org/pdf/2206.11746.pdf

Clubs who regularly qualify, win a game or two every year, will have more coefficient than a club that qualifies once and wins the competition. 

This is why I never watch the CL. It is corrupt beyond belief. I would rather watch MK Dons Vs Salford.

[TeamRocket]

50 minutes ago, sishades said:

Considering how easy it is to watch football (even in the championship) on unofficial streams for free, why would anyone then pay for a stream on the two outlets mentioned?

So the clubs can get money and other financial benefits for the clubs such as sponsorship etc. I Just mean a new league doesn't even have to worry about how they would make money as there is plenty of ways to get it streamed to fans these days unlike just going to the go to where they are so one sided. (Top 6 sided)

[Mr Weller 2]

The simple answer is no, if all the clubs aren’t in a national league the league itself is devalued.

 

However, there is clearly a need for reform because the present rules are anti-competitive and therefore not in the wider interests of the game. Fans want excitement and that comes from genuinely competitive leagues. Leicester challenged the status quo so the status quo changed the rules but now Leicester are fighting back and this may become a cause celebre.

 

To be clear, Leicester have not broken the rules of business-it’s very common for businesses to spend more than they earn in the short term and many corporate giants have built their entire business model on such an approach. They have broken the rules of the PL and EFL however. The question is whether those rules are fair and the outcome could have a significant impact on the game itself.

[Terraloon]

21 hours ago, 5waller5 said:

They do seem to have a better structure, but I don’t know too much about how they’ve achieved it? How are their rules different?

 

Apart from fan shared ownership - which is the big stumbling block as it means changing ownership structures of some big organisations here 

* Club ownership in Germany isn’t consistent. The 50%+ 1 isn’t the model in place at all clubs. Three of the 18 member clubs  are owned by companies. One ironically is Bayer Leverkusen. One or two others only have a very limited number of members I can’t recall which one it is but one club NLS has 20 or so members who pay huge sums annually. This supposed perfect structure is said to be changing !

* Unlike inEngland the national professional structure is terms of number of leagues is way less . The Bundesliga don’t put anywhere near the amount the PL do I to their pyramid 

* BM have won 32 of the 60 league titles.

 

 

[Terraloon]

37 minutes ago, Mr Weller 2 said:

The simple answer is no, if all the clubs aren’t in a national league the league itself is devalued.

 

However, there is clearly a need for reform because the present rules are anti-competitive and therefore not in the wider interests of the game. Fans want excitement and that comes from genuinely competitive leagues. Leicester challenged the status quo so the status quo changed the rules but now Leicester are fighting back and this may become a cause celebre.

 

To be clear, Leicester have not broken the rules of business-it’s very common for businesses to spend more than they earn in the short term and many corporate giants have built their entire business model on such an approach. They have broken the rules of the PL and EFL however. The question is whether those rules are fair and the outcome could have a significant impact on the game itself.

This post is perhaps the most relevant I have read for many a year.

 

The irony is that despite what many think the same comment re breaking business and accounting rules in particular apply to most of the indiscretions that all clubs seem to be charged with.

As I was always told targets drive behaviour. All that was needed and still is a straight forward  rule at seasons end the accounts can never show ( save normal trading creditors and even then no payables overdue by say 60 days ) borrowing should never exceed say 15% of turnover and even then a limit is set at seasons start as to a maximum based on previous years average.

Debt is the devil in football and not investment 

 

[MattFox]

If it meant Top selling up yes

[MPH]

I’m against any breakaway league on principle.

 

this isn’t aimed at the opening post as such, but I find it amusing how many people were against a break away league.. or big 6 breakaway previously but now that we are  suddenly as risk of sanctions for breaking the rules it’s  a good idea?

 

 

I was against it then and I’m against it now.

 

if people think the FFP rules will go away because the Big 6  are not part of the prem, they’d be mistaken.. also, tv revenue will take a massive hit  if the ‘big 6’ are not part of it..  No tv company will pay top dollar for a premier league where top 6 play play their reserves AND top dollar for a break away league.

 

 

it’s massively naive of people to not see the ramifications of a split. And the huge financial hit we would all take..

 

the premier league is watched by just about every nation around the world… but let’s be honest… you think they are interested  in watching Palace v Brentford on a Tuesday night?

 

 

There will be  a huge drop in tv money and sponsorship if there’s any type of  breakaway league, make no mistake about it.

 

 

 

[Dan LCFC]

23 hours ago, sishades said:

If the premier league is so successful then why are nearly all of the clubs in debt. In any other business they would be shutdown. Even Man Ure are up to their eyeballs in the red.I can only think of Arsenal, Spuds, and Plymouth who are profitable. Somewhere along the line the fat lady is going to warble very loudly. I would rather LCFC be profitable in the championship than bankrupt trying to chase a dream 

Because it is ultimately sport rather than business. If the entire method is about making money rather than aiming for success then the game truly has gone.

 

Leicester aren't going to be profitable in the Championship either and nor should the aim of Leicester be to be profitable. Prudent, and sensible with our money absolutely but the aim shouldn't be a huge bank balance, it should be sporting success.

 

The league whether we like it or not has been a success and believe me I say that as someone who loathes plenty about it.

[foxinsocks]

At soneppint sat 3pm straning will be allowed.  Frankly anyone with a VPN can do it now.

I cant u understand why the pl andcegl resist the pay per view money.

This will of course reduce the value of sky and TNT rights...  but this could be replaced by streamibg partner rights (I would want to stream all kinds of games and not have a deal on a club by club basis)

[Terraloon]

4 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

Because it is ultimately sport rather than business. If the entire method is about making money rather than aiming for success then the game truly has gone.

 

Leicester aren't going to be profitable in the Championship either and nor should the aim of Leicester be to be profitable. Prudent, and sensible with our money absolutely but the aim shouldn't be a huge bank balance, it should be sporting success.

 

The league whether we like it or not has been a success and believe me I say that as someone who loathes plenty about it.

The setting of say 70%-85 of turnover on first team squads will mean that there is no benefit in increasing healthy expenditure ( woman’s football in particular) what using a % will do is open up the real possibility that you will see money flow out of football to shareholders b6 way of dividends 

[Terraloon]

2 hours ago, foxinsocks said:

At soneppint sat 3pm straning will be allowed.  Frankly anyone with a VPN can do it now.

I cant u understand why the pl andcegl resist the pay per view money.

This will of course reduce the value of sky and TNT rights...  but this could be replaced by streamibg partner rights (I would want to stream all kinds of games and not have a deal on a club by club basis)

Against showing legally games at 3.00pm for me it  will damage lower league football it will almost certainly have a massive impact on non league attendances and  indeed I have read it will certainly destroy participation in men’s park football.

There really isn’t a lot of appetite for pay for view unless the top 5 or so clubs are involved. They would snatch your hand off if they had the offer to control their own home  games.My guess is that the top 6 would create their own platform possibly sharing rights there would almost certainly be sone sort of linked deals to that package from the other 13 clubs but their return would be massively reduced 

Edited 24 March by Terraloon

[whoareyaaa]

Have a spending / wage cap for every club and it should be the same amount for each team, this would help bring through players from grass roots, allow clubs to become profitable and bring a fair level playing field across the league.

 

wont happen though as Man City, arsenal etc can’t use money as bargaining power and stay at the top ffp is just a closed loop to keep the big teams big.

Edited 24 March by whoareyaaa

[foxinsocks]

31 minutes ago, Terraloon said:

Against showing legally games at 3.00pm for me it  will damage lower league football it will almost certainly have a massive impact on non league attendances and  indeed I have read it will certainly destroy participation in men’s park football.

There really isn’t a lot of appetite for pay for view unless the top 5 or so clubs are involved. They would snatch your hand off if they had the offer to control their own home  games.My guess is that the top 6 would create their own platform possibly sharing rights there would almost certainly be sone sort of linked deals to that package from the other 13 clubs but their return would be massively reduced 

it's problematic and I need to give it thought (they wont be asking me for a solution) - but it seem crazy that there are un available games that folk would pay to stream.

[accessory]

On 23/03/2024 at 06:16, sishades said:

This is why I never watch the CL. It is corrupt beyond belief. I would rather watch MK Dons Vs Salford.

Two teams, of course, with squeaky-clean histories, whose progress has been achieved entirely on merit..

[ozleicester]

Ive enjoyed the coverage of lower league and non league games this weekend.

[Chrysalis]

On 23/03/2024 at 21:22, MPH said:

I’m against any breakaway league on principle.

 

this isn’t aimed at the opening post as such, but I find it amusing how many people were against a break away league.. or big 6 breakaway previously but now that we are  suddenly as risk of sanctions for breaking the rules it’s  a good idea?

 

 

I was against it then and I’m against it now.

 

if people think the FFP rules will go away because the Big 6  are not part of the prem, they’d be mistaken.. also, tv revenue will take a massive hit  if the ‘big 6’ are not part of it..  No tv company will pay top dollar for a premier league where top 6 play play their reserves AND top dollar for a break away league.

 

 

it’s massively naive of people to not see the ramifications of a split. And the huge financial hit we would all take..

 

the premier league is watched by just about every nation around the world… but let’s be honest… you think they are interested  in watching Palace v Brentford on a Tuesday night?

 

 

There will be  a huge drop in tv money and sponsorship if there’s any type of  breakaway league, make no mistake about it.

 

 

 

That big drop in money is the correction the game needs.  Why do we need all this money in the game?

[MPH]

2 hours ago, Chrysalis said:

That big drop in money is the correction the game needs.  Why do we need all this money in the game?

 Well, we have this big drop in income suddenly,  what chance do w have of paying the wages we are committed to?

 

the prem is able to attract some top talent because of the wages we can offer.. if you take that away from us, there’s not many other reasons they’ll choose this country over Spain, Italy or Germany and France. The whole Stanford of football will likely drop..

[Jon the Hat]

On 23/03/2024 at 14:15, sishades said:

If the premier league is so successful then why are nearly all of the clubs in debt. In any other business they would be shutdown. Even Man Ure are up to their eyeballs in the red.I can only think of Arsenal, Spuds, and Plymouth who are profitable. Somewhere along the line the fat lady is going to warble very loudly. I would rather LCFC be profitable in the championship than bankrupt trying to chase a dream 

Debt is not in itself a bad thing.  Nearly all business use debt because it allows them to 1) fund investment which helps them to grow without carrying all the risk or if they cannot fund it themselves, and 2) improve the returns for the rest of the shareholders.  In football a lot of the debt is also to the owners other companies which is simply a way of taking profit from per tax instead of post tax earnings.

[Chrysalis]

16 hours ago, MPH said:

 Well, we have this big drop in income suddenly,  what chance do w have of paying the wages we are committed to?

 

the prem is able to attract some top talent because of the wages we can offer.. if you take that away from us, there’s not many other reasons they’ll choose this country over Spain, Italy or Germany and France. The whole Stanford of football will likely drop..

There would be problems during transition years yes, but the sport would come out of it better.

 

I value better and fairer competition in England vs us attracting players over Spain, Italy etc.  I expect the majority of EFL fans agree with me, and the majority of the big 6 fans disagree with me.

Edited 25 March by Chrysalis

[Sly]

I wrote my initial post through frustration toward the current football system and rules, which are counterintuitive to any club which is looking to grow and challenge the greedy six teams. 
 

Lots more with transparent rulings could be done.

 

I think a league with other European clubs like Rangers, Celtic, Sporting, Porto, Monaco, Roma, Parma, Dortmund, Genk etc would be exciting to watch. People would pay to watch it. You’d then get the others go off and make their money league. UEFA would collapse and FIFA would also throw the toys out the pram. 
 

I guess it depends on where your moral compass sits on current structure of the English football pyramid. For me, it’s not sustainable, like it isn’t sustainable to have hundreds of shops on the high street. The world is changing and it’s evolving into something that some won’t like.

 

As brutal as it is, if it’s about business, unfortunately some will go bust. However at the heart of it, football is the people’s sport and it shouldn’t be dominated by money, we should aim for a game that fundamentally allows everyone to compete and that isn’t allowing 6 clubs to run rough-shot over the overs as historically they were allowed to throw money at things. 

 

[MPH]

1 hour ago, Chrysalis said:

There would be problems during transition years yes, but the sport would come out of it better.

 

I value better and fairer competition in England vs us attracting players over Spain, Italy etc.  I expect the majority of EFL fans agree with me, and the majority of the big 6 fans disagree with me.

 

I’m not sure that it’s the premier league format that  needs changing , more the way it’s regulated.

 

I don’t see how taking the best teams out of the league would result in better or fairer competition.
 

It  would  completely take the ebb off doing well in the premiere league knowing you haven’t actually played the best teams..

 

even the majority of the fans from the top 6 clubs are against this.

Edited 25 March by MPH

[Heathrow fox]

5 hours ago, Chrysalis said:

There would be problems during transition years yes, but the sport would come out of it better.

 

I value better and fairer competition in England vs us attracting players over Spain, Italy etc.  I expect the majority of EFL fans agree with me, and the majority of the big 6 fans disagree with me.

Cutting the money flow from above would force clubs as high as League one into becoming part time.How on earth does this make things better?

[southfox66]

Totally agree, the sides outside the top 6 should form a breakaway league with the top 6 of championship league, scrap var and go back to EFL rules. If the non 6 sides don't stand up to the premier, the game as we know and love will be lost. We are at critical point in the future of the game. We need to do this, not just for the non top 6 sides in premier, but for football at every level below the premier league before the whole game is turned into a boring farce.

Edited 26 March by southfox66

[Clever Fox]

Football is first and foremost a Community based product as demonstrated by the blocking of the breakaway league.

 

It's time the Government put in place a Reguator to run football and leave the premier league only in charge of Fixtures.

 

It's only since the Premier league breakaway which should have been challenged in the Courts even then that the corruption has got worse.

[Chrysalis]

On 25/03/2024 at 22:04, MPH said:

 

I’m not sure that it’s the premier league format that  needs changing , more the way it’s regulated.

 

I don’t see how taking the best teams out of the league would result in better or fairer competition.
 

It  would  completely take the ebb off doing well in the premiere league knowing you haven’t actually played the best teams..

 

even the majority of the fans from the top 6 clubs are against this.

You dont recognise the fundamental reason for the flawed FFP is that the big teams you want to keep wont accept a flat spending cap (they insist on it being based on revenue) and they the prime driver of the big financial gulf between the EPL and the championship?

They not the best teams for everyone either, I very rarely watch games they play in unless they involve Leicester City.  You a closet glory supporter?

Edited 27 March by Chrysalis