Tiki Taka vs Direct Football

[AKCJ]

8 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

Football with speed. I was quite on the tiki taka train a while ago but I've seen the light - it's effective with the right players but it'll never quite get the pulses racing. I mean does Pep even strictly play pure tiki taka anymore? I think he's adapted it somewhat.

 

In truth I want adaptability. I want a manager who is capable of winning with 70% of the ball and is capable of winning with 30% of the ball, and is happy with either outcome.

Pep hasn't played tika taka since probably early Bayern days.

[orangecity23]

5 minutes ago, davieG said:

It'll be tippy tappy against parked busses and more direct against teams that play more direct.

 

The imbalance of the league is the problem causing teams to resort to parking the bus. Even up the on field and they'll be less buses and more open play.

This is bang on - for all the complaints about the football being boring last season, there has to be allowances for how passive and defensive 90% of the opposition teams were, especially at the KP. On numerous occasions, hermansen could be stood on the ball, walking forward, and the opposition would sprint top speed...back into their own half. They would vacate the entire attacking half of the pitch because they were afraid of engaging a goal keeper. It's all well and good wanting counter attacking, fast football, but if the opposition won't attack in the first place, your stuck with nothing happening, or swiftly attacking head first into a packed 10 man block behind the ball, and swiftly losing it.

 

The more exciting games were against teams like Southampton, Leeds, Ipswich and Birmingham, who weren't afraid to have a go at us, and it lead to a much more exciting game, as counter attacks became much more viable, because there was actually something to counter.

[lcfcsnow]

A manager that doesn't have a coronary at the sign of any excitement in a match.

[ParkerPen]

I don't care so much about what Plan 'A' is, but I don't want any manager who is unwilling to be tactically flexible, to any degree. 

[sylofox]

3 hours ago, Daggers said:

Maresca’s tickytacky or R*dgers’ tickytacky?

It don't matter neither will work for us in the prem as we don't have the quality of player to make it work. But we do know a more direct style works without the need to spend  hundreds of millions on it to work.

 

We need to be solid well marshaled with everyone knowing what to do

[ParkerPen]

3 minutes ago, sylofox said:

 

We need to be solid well marshaled

 

[orangecity23]

2 minutes ago, sylofox said:

It don't matter neither will work for us in the prem as we don't have the quality of player to make it work. But we do know a more direct style works without the need to spend  hundreds of millions on it to work.

 

We need to be solid well marshaled with everyone knowing what to do

The more direct style "working" for us in the Prem might not have cost hundreds of millions, but it required the best striker we've ever had at his peak, one of the best technical dribbling wingers around and the absolute best defensive midfielder of his generation in the middle of the park. Removing one of those players (Kante) immediately turned us into also rans the following season. We can't afford a peak Vardy equivalent or the next Kante either at this moment.

[sylofox]

4 minutes ago, orangecity23 said:

The more direct style "working" for us in the Prem might not have cost hundreds of millions, but it required the best striker we've ever had at his peak, one of the best technical dribbling wingers around and the absolute best defensive midfielder of his generation in the middle of the park. Removing one of those players (Kante) immediately turned us into also rans the following season. We can't afford a peak Vardy equivalent or the next Kante either at this moment.

We played it at the end of the great escape to keep us up. We didn't have Kante then. I'm not talking about winning the league just staying up to sort our financial fvck up out.

[mancunianfox]

10 hours ago, Stadt said:

Who plays direct football successfully?

 

I’m an advocate for being direct when it’s right but the good sides all build up with primarily short passes.

 

Leverkusen are incredibly indirect.

Man Utd won the FA cup setting up like a league two side.

[whoareyaaa]

2 hours ago, orangecity23 said:

This is bang on - for all the complaints about the football being boring last season, there has to be allowances for how passive and defensive 90% of the opposition teams were, especially at the KP. On numerous occasions, hermansen could be stood on the ball, walking forward, and the opposition would sprint top speed...back into their own half. They would vacate the entire attacking half of the pitch because they were afraid of engaging a goal keeper. It's all well and good wanting counter attacking, fast football, but if the opposition won't attack in the first place, your stuck with nothing happening, or swiftly attacking head first into a packed 10 man block behind the ball, and swiftly losing it.

 

The more exciting games were against teams like Southampton, Leeds, Ipswich and Birmingham, who weren't afraid to have a go at us, and it lead to a much more exciting game, as counter attacks became much more viable, because there was actually something to counter.

Exactly, people don't seem to get this.

[Stadt]

1 hour ago, mancunianfox said:

Man Utd won the FA cup setting up like a league two side.

In one off cup ties with the prospect of penalties being ultra defensive works in a way it can't in league campaigns 

[Chelmofox]

The more 'r''s the more direct right? I love dirrrrect football then. Gerrit forward! 

[OldBob]

5 hours ago, sylofox said:

We played it at the end of the great escape to keep us up. We didn't have Kante then. I'm not talking about winning the league just staying up to sort our financial fvck up out.

This! 💯

Also the point about us being poor after Kante left. Well we had just won the league against all odds… the team was always gonna have a dip after that. Seemed to do pretty well in the champions league anyhow. The myth about us just relying on those three players in Mahrez, Vardy and Kante is rubbish. Yes they had key roles but the whole team knew their jobs and played to their max. I remember when Vardy was suspended and Ulloa came in and did brilliant. That’s the type of versatility we miss!

[Cameron Davidson]

Is there an option C ?

[OldBob]

1 minute ago, Cameron Davidson said:

Is there an option C ?

Yeah, if you can’t win the game, don’t lose it. Someone should have told Rodgers this when we were plummeting down the league. 

[Foxin_Mad]

I cant help but think a manager who adapts to different games might be quite scucessful in the modern era. 

 

Yes it is lovely to watch a great tiki taka move when it works, you score at the end of a 50 pass move, but to be honest its also great to watch a surging counter attack forward at pace with 3 passes, or a winger absolutely ripping apart a defender. 

 

I dont really get the high risk at the back, no risk up front situation, and passing between centre backs putting yourself under pressure. 

 

I also think a lot of these teams have a cronic lack of movement, like last year if players moved into spaces it would have helped. 

 

It also seems set pieces and shooting are a bit of an afterthought, we were terrible at shooting and set pieces, yet its an easy way to create a chance. The flip side is we often give away chances at set pieces. 

 

I think a blind commitment to a philosphy is silly. Our best games last year, Enzo didnt like! Which was wierd!

[PAULCFC]

There is a balance,which we didn't exploit with Brendan/Enzo.

[murphy]

18 hours ago, Stadt said:

Who plays direct football successfully?

 

I’m an advocate for being direct when it’s right but the good sides all build up with primarily short passes.

 

Leverkusen are incredibly indirect

Leicester City, C. 2016

[Stadt]

10 minutes ago, murphy said:

Leicester City, C. 2016

Ok let’s just do that again 

[dooflip]

Neither. Needs more options.

[murphy]

I hate it. 

 

Hate the idea of trying to strangle games.  Hate the idea of instructing players to take soft options just to keep the ball instead of taking a more ambitious and direct option. 

 

Hate passing it around the defence in the 88th minute when you're 2-1 down and as if you've got all the time in the world instead of sticking your centre half up front and going agricultural.

 

Hate the slow build up, allowing the opposition to set themselves defensively while you tap it around in front of them.     

 

Hate passing it around your own penalty area, Russian roulette style til the inevitable happens and you end up looking like a complete tit. 

 

Maresca likened his approach to chess. There is a reason that chess is not a spectator sport. Keep your false nines, your inverted full backs and all the rest of that hipster crap.   We at the village green preservation society say jumpers for goalposts, no gloves and row zed it, if you have to. 

[Super_horns]

I guess it comes down to what is winning games and entertaining fans .

[Guest Col city fan]

It’s actually a bit of a redundant question imo. Last season we could get away with how we played. Ie keeping the ball, retaining posession and grinding teams down. 
Why could we do that? Simply we had the best squad with many of the better players.

Next season, we won’t be able to keep the ball for long periods of time. The opposition will just win it back and then retain it for longer themselves.

The playing style will have to change or we’ll get hammered most weeks I suspect.

[Foxin_Mad]

14 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

It’s actually a bit of a redundant question imo. Last season we could get away with how we played. Ie keeping the ball, retaining posession and grinding teams down. 
Why could we do that? Simply we had the best squad with many of the better players.

Next season, we won’t be able to keep the ball for long periods of time. The opposition will just win it back and then retain it for longer themselves.

The playing style will have to change or we’ll get hammered most weeks I suspect.

Is that strictly true though? Realistically more than half of the Premier League is the level of Bournemouth, we were much the better side in that FA Cup game and Bournemouth were comfortable last year. We held our own again Chelsea.

 

A lot of it is down to to fine margins. Having Wout Faes in defence next year will be the reason we struggle.

[Phenom]

Who plays tiki taka? Nobody.