Cooper - OUT

[ClaphamFox]

11 minutes ago, trooky said:

This is all just hypothetical, there is absolutely no evidence to suggest Enzo would struggle with Leicester in the premier league.

 

He is a top coach, ruthless, determined with a philosophy, everybody is pointing to our wobble at the end of last season and his stubbornness to change.

 

No manager will hit the panic button and complety change their style with so few games left in the season, he held his nerve, stuck with his believes and the rest is history.

 

He's a top coach and I for one believe he would have learnt from his mistakes and been successful at Leicester this season.

 

I would much rather have had Enzo in charge than the ****wit that is Cooper.

Yep. It's incredible how many people still don't appreciate how good Maresca is. This assumption that he would have refused to adapt to the PL even if it meant taking us straight back down is insane - he's a ruthless, ambitious coach who would never have allowed that to happen. Chelsea are still adapting to his way of playing and they're in fourth place, just two points off the top. He'll get them into the CL this season and may even challenge for the title.

[cityfanlee23]

1 hour ago, Ricey said:

We need something inbetween. Maresca would have been a disaster for us this season, let's not let life under Steve Cooper cloud the realities of what would have happened had Maresca had stayed. We would have tried to play a style of play that we simply wouldn't have had the players for and it would have failed, in the same way it has failed for Burnley and Southampton.

 

We need a manager with a stronger footballing identity, but it needs to be one that balances idealism and pragmatism.

This. It’s obvious Maresca had a plan and a direction and Cooper lacks that, but let’s not kid ourselves, we were the best team in the championship on paper with a £40m summer spend and were defensively VERY sloppy, making multiple massive mistakes every game against very inferior opponents relative to the premier league, we then had a net spend of about £50m due to the potential of a points deduction, I think we need to hold the ball more, but this idea seems to be creeping in now that somehow we would have been comfortable under Enzo. 
 

Our defensive record last season seemed quite fortunate to be honest, every single game we gifted opponents chances but they failed to take them, if we had gifted those same chances to premier league teams we would have been in a world of trouble. 
 

Hope Enzo does well at Chelsea, I very much doubt he would be happy here if he had stayed and I don’t think we would be conceding less goals. 

Edited 1 October 2024 by cityfanlee23

[Jobyfox]

4 minutes ago, cityfanlee23 said:

This. It’s obvious Maresca had a plan and a direction and Cooper lacks that, but let’s not kid ourselves we were the best team in the championship and were defensively VERY sloppy, making multiple massive mistakes every game against very inferior opponents relative to the premier league, we then had a net spend of about £50m due to the potential of a points deduction, I think we need to hold the ball more, but this idea seems to be creeping in now that somehow we would have been comfortable under Enzo. 
 

Our defensive record last season seemed quite fortunate to be honest, every single game we gifted opponents chances but they failed to take them, if we had gifted those same chances to premier league teams we would have been in a world of trouble. 
 

Hope Enzo does well at Chelsea, I very much doubt he would be happy here if he had stayed and I don’t think we would be conceding less goals. 

The League Table suggests that we were 

[cityfanlee23]

9 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

Yep. It's incredible how many people still don't appreciate how good Maresca is. This assumption that he would have refused to adapt to the PL even if it meant taking us straight back down is insane - he's a ruthless, ambitious coach who would never have allowed that to happen. Chelsea are still adapting to his way of playing and they're in fourth place, just two points off the top. He'll get them into the CL this season and may even challenge for the title.

He blew a 14 point lead and almost took us into the playoffs because he refused to change his system even when opponents were exploiting it. We turned it around in the end by basically reducing the amount of Enzoball we played and going more direct in our build up, something the majority of those who said Enzo needed to go at the end of the season cited should have been our approach. The moment we went more direct and tried to run at teams we pulled them apart. 
 

His stubbornness almost created the biggest bottle in the history of the championship. In hindsight would I prefer Enzo right now over Cooper, yes, but that doesn’t mean he would have been successful this season. 
My opinion was always that Enzo needed to go to a club with a big budget to be able to fully express his vision. Can’t see that happening if he was here now.

Edited 1 October 2024 by cityfanlee23

[cityfanlee23]

Just now, Jobyfox said:

The League Table suggests that we were 

Apologies, missed the comma. 

It was supposed to say “but let’s not kid ourselves, we were the best team in the championship” referring to the quality of our squad and the £40m+ we spent in the summer.

[Jobyfox]

2 minutes ago, cityfanlee23 said:

Apologies, missed the comma. 

It was supposed to say “but let’s not kid ourselves, we were the best team in the championship” referring to the quality of our squad and the £40m+ we spent in the summer.

 Reminds me of the difference between: “helping your Uncle Jack, off a horse” and “helping your uncle jack off a horse”

[ClaphamFox]

2 minutes ago, cityfanlee23 said:

He blew a 14 point lead and almost took us into the playoffs because he refused to change his system even when opponents were exploiting it. We turned it around in the end by basically reducing the amount of Enzoball we played and going more direct in our build up. 
 

His stubbornness almost created the biggest bottle in the history of the championship. In hindsight would I prefer Enzo right now over Cooper, yes, but that doesn’t mean he would have been successful this season. 
My opinion was always that Enzo needed to go to a club with a big budget to be able to fully express his vision. Can’t see that happening if he was here now.

And who do you think made the decision to do that? Maresca had an iron grip on the squad - they would only have changed their approach if he told them to. He's more pragmatic than people give him credit for.

If he hadn't have gone to Chelsea I think we'd have only had him for another season, possibly two. But I think he'd have kept us up and put us on a sound footing in the PL before he left. 

[FLINTHAMFC]

It's a tricky one for me. Watching us under Maresca was just as awful as the guff we are dishing up under Cooper.

 

Would we have more points under Maresca, maybe but I haven't forgotten how bad we were defensively under Maresca. 

 

It could be argued that Maresca would have done no better v villa, spuds and the gunners and that Cooper would have got results at home against Hull and Blackburn, amongst many others.

 

They both dish up football that is hard to watch. Maresca just had the fortune to play against championship dross.

[Happy Fox]

'Other clubs around Manchester United seem to be improving'published at 10:15 British Summer Time

10:15 BST

Conor Coady
Former England defender on BBC Radio 5 Live

IMAGE SOURCE, GETTY IMAGES

Other clubs around Manchester United seem to be improving and getting better by bringing in new coaches who are real tacticians and very detailed.

The level of coaching is through the roof now. I was lucky enough to work under Enzo [Marsesca] last year and I experienced a coach with a level of detail that I’ve never seen before and now he’s gone on to Chelsea. 

Chelsea are starting to play certain styles now and when we think of the top teams; Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool, these are the teams who are winning games and we lookat the level of coaches there.

 

No wonder the players are not to happy Cooper is inept, the standards have well and truly dropped with Cooper.

[cityfanlee23]

7 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

And who do you think made the decision to do that? Maresca had an iron grip on the squad - they would only have changed their approach if he told them to. He's more pragmatic than people give him credit for.

If he hadn't have gone to Chelsea I think we'd have only had him for another season, possibly two. But I think he'd have kept us up and put us on a sound footing in the PL before he left. 

He wasn’t pragmatic until the end of the season. 
A pragmatic manager doesn’t take a 14 point lead (or was is 17?) being lost to change things imo. 
 

I think in hindsight he would have had a better chance of keeping us up than we have now, but that’s hindsight and at the time I didn’t think we would end up with cooper and for his football to be so turgid. 
 

I think Enzo is a good manager, but I still believe he needed to spend £100m minimum to have a chance of keeping us up if he was going to return to the football that almost blew a monumental lead. 
 

I just can’t help but believe that the football we played at the end he hated, I distinctly remember him screaming at players to slow the game down and pass backwards during a couple of games where we were on the front foot, and that was during the end of season period where we turned it around, so it seemed very much to me that the system was changed through gritted teeth. 
 

Again though that’s all hindsight, I’d take him right now for sure, but I believe there are managers better suited to our current position than Enzo. Some managers are suited to bigger clubs. 

[GingerrrFox]

20 minutes ago, Happy Fox said:

'Other clubs around Manchester United seem to be improving'published at 10:15 British Summer Time

10:15 BST

Conor Coady
Former England defender on BBC Radio 5 Live

IMAGE SOURCE, GETTY IMAGES

Other clubs around Manchester United seem to be improving and getting better by bringing in new coaches who are real tacticians and very detailed.

The level of coaching is through the roof now. I was lucky enough to work under Enzo [Marsesca] last year and I experienced a coach with a level of detail that I’ve never seen before and now he’s gone on to Chelsea. 

Chelsea are starting to play certain styles now and when we think of the top teams; Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool, these are the teams who are winning games and we lookat the level of coaches there.

 

No wonder the players are not to happy Cooper is inept, the standards have well and truly dropped with Cooper.

“Tell me your new gaffer is shit without telling me he’s shit.”
 

🤣 

[teblin]

3 minutes ago, GingerrrFox said:

“Tell me your new gaffer is shit without telling me he’s shit.”
 

🤣

I was listening to this, said exactly the same to my lad(without the swearing)

[Fox92]

1 hour ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

Maresca had a lot of faults - he is very much a manager still learning. Issues with subs, adapting and being reactive rather than proactive when the opposition figured us out. However he is leaps and bounds above Cooper. 
 

steve’s currently living off Solanke being shit and Mads having a blinding game. As if we can take positives from Saturday - we barely laid anything on them. There wasn’t any tactics involved. You then consider we threw away a 2-0 lead v a Palace side bang in trouble and didn’t show up v Everton. We look miles away from a half decent side, the man has brought nothing to the table so far, 

Can say that about any manager  

 

Bournmouth missed lots of chances against Chelsea and should have won the game. Is Enzo living off them being shit at finishing? 

[foxesfan98]

12 hours ago, Lambert09 said:

I can see him going to palace tbh. That will make their derby even more interesting 

Yeah he'd be decent there but you'd think Glasner will have enough credit in the bank after their end to last season to be given more time then we'll give Cooper.

[trooky]

Enzo is superior in everyway to Cooper and was hugely respected by the players last season.

 

Cooper is a negative, clueless whining cvnt who will never get anywhere near a top job like Chelsea.

 

We've made a massive mistake in appointing Cooper who's the polar opposite to Enzo in terms of style, why would the club even consider this to be a good appointment or succession plan? 

 

Cooper spoke about a continuation of style in his early interviews but his first move was to break up Vestergaard Winks and Pereira who were pivotal last year. He's a winless fraud.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 1 October 2024 by trooky

[Sol thewall Bamba]

58 minutes ago, FLINTHAMFC said:

Would we have more points under Maresca, maybe but I haven't forgotten how bad we were defensively under Maresca. 

It always blows my mind how people will make these statements that are so easy to disprove with a 5 second Google search.

 

We conceded the least goals in the league last season.

[worthosoriginals]

Enzo looking v likely to win September prem manager of the month 3 league wins and a cup win.

Some of the  bitter twisted on here not long ago said he'd be sacked by Christmas, not looking likely I'd say, the bloke seems to know what he's doing, strider will tell you

[Les-TA-Jon]

5 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

It always blows my mind how people will make these statements that are so easy to disprove with a 5 second Google search.

 

We conceded the least goals in the league last season.

People also seem to think we conceded a ton of goals from playing it out from the back. Which ignores that 1) we probably conceded far less than people think and 2) playing it out from the back was a crucial part of our success

[ClaphamFox]

13 minutes ago, trooky said:

Enzo is superior in everyway to Cooper and was hugely respected by the players last season.

 

Cooper is a negative, clueless whining cvnt who will never get anywhere near a top job like Chelsea.

 

We've made a massive mistake in appointing Cooper who's the polar opposite to Enzo in terms of style, why would the club even consider this to be a good appointment or succession plan? 

 

Cooper spoke about a continuation of style in his early interviews but his first move was to break up Vestergaard Winks and Pereira who were pivotal last year. He's a winless fraud.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I suspect Top told Cooper he wanted him to play in a similar way to Enzo and Cooper agreed to do this because he wanted the job. Now Cooper is struggling because he has a squad that was coached to play a certain way and he's promised to continue playing that way, but deep down he doesn't really believe in it. The squad is probably being coached a weird hybrid of Enzo's style and Cooper's own style (whatever that is) and the players don't fully understand it, hence why they often look a bit confused on the pitch. However this is currently being masked to some extent by the fact that the players do seem to quite like Cooper as a person (he was very popular with the players at Forest too) and are willing to battle for him, which has enabled us to get three points on the board. 

 

I don't Cooper has lost the changing room, but I do think we're in a bit of a tactical muddle because we didn't appoint a natural successor to Maresca and the players are struggling to adapt. Cooper now has a run of games against 'easier' opposition to straighten out the muddle or I suspect he will be off. 

Edited 1 October 2024 by ClaphamFox

[James_lcfc]

We'd definitely be better under Maresca, but a lot would have depended on his Summer recruitment to be fair.

 

We lost 11 games last year - With a lot of the same squad and poor recruitment, we'd have struggled massively, even with Enzo.

 

With Cooper we are in for more than a struggle...we'll be cut adrift pretty early I reckon.

[guest123]

4 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

I suspect Top told Cooper he wanted him to play in a similar way to Enzo and Cooper agreed to do this because he wanted the job. Now Cooper is struggling because he has a squad that was coached to play a certain way and he's promised to continue playing that way, but deep down he doesn't really believe in it. The squad is probably being coached a weird hybrid of Enzo's style and Cooper's own style (whatever that is) that the players don't fully understand, hence why they often look a bit confused on the pitch. However this is currently being masked to some extent by the fact that the players do seem to quite like Cooper as a person (he was very popular with the players at Forest too) and are willing to battle for him, which has enabled us to get three points on the board. 

I’ve seen nothing to suggest the players like him at all

[Happy Fox]

He will be gone soon here is hoping? He’s awful, the appointment of Cooper, is living proof Rudkin didn’t want to be ousted , as hiring Potter would have signalled his departure. The sooner Top wakes up and hires a decent DOF and manager the better.

[ClaphamFox]

Just now, guest123 said:

I’ve seen nothing to suggest the players like him at all

If he'd lost the changing room we wouldn't be consistently getting ourselves back into games after going behind. They're fighting for him, which is in stark contrast to how the players performed during the relegation season under Rodgers.

[Muzzy_no7]

.

Edited 1 October 2024 by Muzzy_no7
.

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

1 hour ago, cityfanlee23 said:

 were defensively VERY sloppy, making multiple massive mistakes every game against very inferior opponents relative to the premier league

 

Can't be in doubt that we had a wobble towards the end defensively, but ultimately we conceded the fewest goals in the division last season. I think calling us very sloppy is wide of the mark, and saying we made "multiple massive mistakes every game" is hyperbole. In the past ten years, only 3 Championship sides have bettered our +48 GD from last season and the defence played a part in that as well as the boys up top.

 

 

Edited 1 October 2024 by Miquel The Work Geordie