Cooper - OUT

[volpeazzurro]

3 hours ago, Happy Fox said:

'Other clubs around Manchester United seem to be improving'published at 10:15 British Summer Time

10:15 BST

Conor Coady
Former England defender on BBC Radio 5 Live

IMAGE SOURCE, GETTY IMAGES

Other clubs around Manchester United seem to be improving and getting better by bringing in new coaches who are real tacticians and very detailed.

The level of coaching is through the roof now. I was lucky enough to work under Enzo [Marsesca] last year and I experienced a coach with a level of detail that I’ve never seen before and now he’s gone on to Chelsea. 

Chelsea are starting to play certain styles now and when we think of the top teams; Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool, these are the teams who are winning games and we lookat the level of coaches there.

 

No wonder the players are not to happy Cooper is inept, the standards have well and truly dropped with Cooper.

Yet he's hardly played under either manager.

 

I do in fairness however see his point. Even to the layman, whether you liked Enzo's style or not, there was a sense of discipline, purpose and ethos. Under Cooper there's just a sense of clutching at straws without a tactical thought in his head. It's as if he's ignored last year's player success stories and their strengths and ploughed ahead with the same fruitless strategies that he failed with last time he was in the Premier League. 

[guest123]

1 hour ago, Muzzy_no7 said:

Brenzo almost single handily cost us promotion last season with his stubbornness and lack of subs during that spell of 8-10 games. I’ve not seen many, if any ‘pine for him back’. His style wouldn’t suit a club in our position. 
 

Sack Cooper and it really is quite simple: we get someone in who’s competent and maximise our chances of surviving comfortably and building back towards the top half. 
 

We are only not in the bottom 3 due to a literal once in a blue moon start to the PL. our XG stats and performances have been abysmal at both ends. 
 

We let this plonker loose on the most pivotal month of this season and we are shooting ourselves in the foot. 
 

8pts from 4? You’re asking Steve to do something he’s never done. Not gonna happen. 

I like the ring plonker pooper has 😂😂

[FLINTHAMFC]

13 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

It's all relative though. Rotherham faced largely the same strikers as us but conceded over twice as many as we did. Saying we defended badly last season is just factually incorrect.

 

And if you're ignoring stats and results, what exactly are you taking into consideration? Vibes?

I'm not R Kelly

[Fox92]

55 minutes ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

Ok, I don’t think I was trying to discuss with you on anything but good to know. 
 

What we have agreed on is apart from 20 minutes v Spurs, there has been little added to the side on the appointment. 

Last time I checked this was an open forum. I was just adding my thoughts. 

[guest123]

1 hour ago, ClaphamFox said:

You seem to have fallen into the trap of assuming that anything bad must be because of Cooper anything good must be in spite of him. It's an easy mindset to fall into when you dislike a manager, but I don't think it's an accurate one.

When I look at the way we play, I see a clear continuity between ourselves and Cooper's Forest. They also didn't have a clear style of play or a much of an identity, but they did have some battling qualities because the players were apparently willing to run through a brick wall for Cooper even when they didn't fully understand what he wanted them to do. In the end, this was enough to keep them up while we went down with a vastly superior squad - but one whose relationship with our manager had completely disintegrated. We're now a bit like Forest were that season - tactically poor and without a clear identity, but with some battling qualities that will gain us a few points along the way.

 

I think in Maresca the club appointed somebody who is going to be an elite coach at the very top of the game. The players were in awe of him and loved playing for him, but then he walked out on us at the first opportunity. The club then appointed a manager who wasn't really qualified to carry on where Maresca left off, but was available for free and wanted the job. The players are struggling to adapt to this change.

 

I don't think Cooper is anywhere near Maresca's level as a coach, but I also don't think he's quite as bad as some on here clearly believe. I also think the personal vitriol directed at him is massively over the top. He now has the opportunity in the next four games to prove that he can set us up to beat bottom-half sides, which is a prerequisite to survival in the PL. If he doesn't start winning games in the next few weeks, he'll be gone.

Not reading all of that so purely answering your first paragraph. I’ve fell into no trap. I’ve been most games since Shrewsbury and what I’ve seen is no interaction between manager and players that suggest any of them are playing

for him and he has them inside. In fact, the more I think what I’ve saw the more I believe that. Most games at the end the players don’t even follow him to the fans, they wait till he’s done that and gone before going over. The lack of interaction he has with all the players suggests there’s an issue, before the leaked stories. Ricky P was doing his own team talk to the new lad and Vardy on the pitch just before the 2nd half against Everton. Senior player doing the managers job

[Mickyblueeyes]

9 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

Last time I checked this was an open forum. I was just adding my thoughts. 

Interesting thoughts. 

[cityfanlee23]

2 hours ago, Gazza M said:

I believe Enzo was being labelled a "fraud" on here at the start of April. "Poundland Pep" etc. Now we are pining for him back. 

 

Sack Cooper and all that toxic negativity is draining. I dare say if we had hung on v Arsenal and Palace this thread wouldn't even exist. 

 

We are still not even in the bottom 3 yet. Let the guy have his 4 games next against lesser opposition. If we flop ( no wins) then he probably quite rightly deserves to go. 

 

Personally I think we will take 8 points and be undefeated in the next 4. 

Think we had a poll in april with about 80% wanting him to go (at that point he was still religiously refusing to change the system) I think after Millwall IIRC?  
It's easy to feel nostalgic for Enzo when Cooper is offering up such negative football, I would take Enzo in a heart beat over Cooper but I don't think either would keep us up. 

[hackneyfox]

1 hour ago, SixtiesFox said:

I have this nagging feeling that Cooper was brought in with next season's Championship battle in mind. With a 10 point deduction looming our clueless board were essentially waving the white flag rather than going for it. Cooper kept Forest up because his shortcomings as a coach were forgiven by a fan base ravenous for PL football after a 20 year absence. He also had credit in the bank for getting them out of the Championship against the odds. In contrast, our fan base has recently experienced a PL title and an FA cup triumph, so the dross Cooper is serving up was bound to quickly create a toxic atmosphere. We should have been braver and gone for Corberan who would have built on rather than undermine what Maresca was building. Until our inept, 'rud'derless (the irony) board are replaced, expect us to continue our descent back into the Championship where the EFL are waiting to give us a proper caning. We all know Cooper should be moved on sooner rather than later but we also know the trigger won't be pulled until it is too late!

WE WEREN'T GETTING A TEN POINT DEDUCTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ffs

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

2 hours ago, guest123 said:

I’ve seen nothing to suggest the players like him at all

 

2 hours ago, ClaphamFox said:

If he'd lost the changing room we wouldn't be consistently getting ourselves back into games after going behind. They're fighting for him, which is in stark contrast to how the players performed during the relegation season under Rodgers.

It could be professional pride that is seeing the players scrap and react to being second best and going behind in most games, as opposed to clear instructions and tactics from a coach who has a clear identity.

Edited 1 October 2024 by Wasyls Pec Deck

[Cadno'r Cymoedd]

1 hour ago, Samilktray said:

I still get a little bit teary eyed thinking back on our year with Enzo, what a man 

 

 

He nearly ****ed it up though being stubborn and complained all the time about the supporters. But whatever gets you dewy eyed I suppose. 

[Cadno'r Cymoedd]

39 minutes ago, guest123 said:

Not reading all of that so purely answering your first paragraph. I’ve fell into no trap. I’ve been most games since Shrewsbury and what I’ve seen is no interaction between manager and players that suggest any of them are playing

for him and he has them inside. In fact, the more I think what I’ve saw the more I believe that. Most games at the end the players don’t even follow him to the fans, they wait till he’s done that and gone before going over. The lack of interaction he has with all the players suggests there’s an issue, before the leaked stories. Ricky P was doing his own team talk to the new lad and Vardy on the pitch just before the 2nd half against Everton. Senior player doing the managers job

Not like the end of last season then?, 🤔

[Samilktray]

5 minutes ago, Cadno'r Cymoedd said:

He nearly ****ed it up though being stubborn and complained all the time about the supporters. But whatever gets you dewy eyed I suppose. 

Alright pal no need to cry about it, I just liked the bloke 

[ClaphamFox]

29 minutes ago, hackneyfox said:

WE WEREN'T GETTING A TEN POINT DEDUCTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ffs

My understanding is that the club were always very confident that we wouldn't get any deduction. But I suppose it's one thing to be confident of that and quite another to convince any managerial candidates or transfer targets of it, particularly given the ludicrous consensus in the media (swallowed by some of our own fans) that we were about to be clobbered with an unprecedented punishment even though our circumstances were very similar to Forest's...

Edited 1 October 2024 by ClaphamFox

[winteriscoming]

18 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

Of the out of work managers Niko Kovac or Roger Schmidt would be my standout choices but experienced managers with a track record for fast results but don't always want to stick around (not a bad thing) I'd see if Rudi Garcia or Lucien Favre would take it for 18 months. Both got great track records promoting young players too.

 

But the one who I think might fit this squad is Kasper Hjulmand, could see us being interested if we did want a new manager. Whether he'd be any good domestically remains to be seen.

 

 

Out of interest who would you want whose in a job abroad? 
I’d of liked us to get Hutter but that’s never gonna happen now with how well he’s doing at Monaco. 
Not that I’d want him but could see us looking at Hassenhutl. Ticks the box with previous pl experience. 

[Vazman]

5 hours ago, indierich06 said:

Would he? I reckon we would probably have more points on the board at this stage than we do under Cooper. He would have carried on playing the way he had us playing last season, which we already had the players for. Not saying it would have been rosy, and we wouldn't struggle, but I think he leads us to a higher league finish than Cooper in all honesty.

Plus one or two of his own signings to boost his style of play within the squad, I agree it would have been a struggle, but I think we would have more points than we currently have. 

[ThumbsUp]

2 hours ago, Samilktray said:

I still get a little bit teary eyed thinking back on our year with Enzo, what a man 

 

 

We probably get relegated under him but on the other hand Rudkin probably would've been ousted. I'm not sure if it'd be worth relegation to get rid of Rudkin, but it very well might be. Sure beats the current alternative where we get relegated and keep Rudkin.

[Iwebema]

7 minutes ago, ThumbsUp said:

We probably get relegated under him but on the other hand Rudkin probably would've been ousted. I'm not sure if it'd be worth relegation to get rid of Rudkin, but it very well might be. Sure beats the current alternative where we get relegated and keep Rudkin.

It's difficult to say, I thought enzo was great, not without his mistakes but it was his first proper job if you discount parma.

I shared the same concerns as everyone else about style in the prem, but I also think we would of seen quite a different transfer policy if he had stayed so it would of largely come down to did we bring in players that suited him. We will never know unfortunately, and he is showing how good his football can be with a standard of player. 

[TheGoldenGod]

2 minutes ago, Iwebema said:

It's difficult to say, I thought enzo was great, not without his mistakes but it was his first proper job if you discount parma.

I shared the same concerns as everyone else about style in the prem, but I also think we would of seen quite a different transfer policy if he had stayed so it would of largely come down to did we bring in players that suited him. We will never know unfortunately, and he is showing how good his football can be with a standard of player. 

If they don't do something stupid and end up sticking by him, Chelsea will be a force no doubt. He needs a window or two more because a couple of the CBs are incredibly suspect. Very surprised he stuck with Sanchez in goal too cause he's not 'it'.

[ClaphamFox]

8 minutes ago, TheGoldenGod said:

If they don't do something stupid and end up sticking by him, Chelsea will be a force no doubt. He needs a window or two more because a couple of the CBs are incredibly suspect. Very surprised he stuck with Sanchez in goal too cause he's not 'it'.

He'll be after Hermansen again in the summer, and possibly even January.

[Wortho]

16 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

He'll be after Hermansen again in the summer, and possibly even January.

I think you are right. He could be £60m or more.

[FoxesTalker]

Not an admin/moderator, but would suggest it's better for general talk about Cooper to go in the other thread. 

 

https://www.foxestalk.co.uk/topic/135118-steve-cooper-new-manager/page/14/

 

Edited 1 October 2024 by FoxesTalker

[guest123]

1 hour ago, Cadno'r Cymoedd said:

Not like the end of last season then?, 🤔

You have selective memory or you never went to every game like I did ✅✅

[Sol thewall Bamba]

2 hours ago, FLINTHAMFC said:

I'm not R Kelly

But like I say what are you actually considering if you're ignoring stats and the actual results? What's left?

[MattFox]

Enzo listening to the experienced players and changing things up was a strength not a weakness 

 

Other managers here have done the complete opposite and got the sack

[SpacedX]

2 hours ago, Cadno'r Cymoedd said:

 and complained all the time about the supporters.

Can't for the life of me think why.