The Horse's Mouth Posted 13 January Posted 13 January Too late for the EU anyway, the perfect time was when hesletine resigned and he was spot on at the time, a United States of Europe model was probably the only way we’d be a relevant country again , we’ve whored out too much of our industry to America for us to consider another ally. The EU is vastly different to when we left now, think a lot on the right would probably be more inclined now than before.
Tommy G Posted 13 January Posted 13 January 21 hours ago, Sampson said: Genuinely don’t understand why so many on the right would rather side with the US than the EU. In terms of culture, legal protections, geopolitics, our economy, the EU is clearly the better option in each case. Not saying anything against the US, a lot of it is down to simple geography. But so many politicians and journalists who were the driving force behind Brexit are now seemingly begging us to hurtle away from the EU and towards the US as if we're an isolated island country in the middle of the Atlantic who has equal access to both, rather than one just off the coast of France, with a train connection to them and land border with Ireland and a huge ocean away from the US. Far right you mean. I'd say Im centre right and couldn't think of anything worse than siding with the US rather than the EU. I was firmly in the remain camp too. 2
Trumpet Posted 13 January Posted 13 January World leaders in pot hole detection - you’ll never sing that. 1
Muzzy_no7 Posted 13 January Posted 13 January 2 hours ago, Tommy G said: Far right you mean. I'd say Im centre right and couldn't think of anything worse than siding with the US rather than the EU. I was firmly in the remain camp too. You seem to have forgotten my friend, anyone slightly right of centre is ‘far right’ now. 1
Tommy G Posted 13 January Posted 13 January 1 hour ago, Trumpet said: World leaders in pot hole detection - you’ll never sing that. It's to distract from Rachel in accounts groundbreaking MEGA DEAL with China, worth £600m over 5 years £/$ now 1.21, wonder when it falls below 1.20.
Muzzy_no7 Posted 13 January Posted 13 January 3 minutes ago, Tommy G said: It's to distract from Rachel in accounts groundbreaking MEGA DEAL with China, worth £600m over 5 years £/$ now 1.21, wonder when it falls below 1.20. The decline in the value of our economy, currency and gdp per capita over the last 25 years really is criminal. How did we get it so wrong?
Tommy G Posted 13 January Posted 13 January (edited) 2 minutes ago, Muzzy_no7 said: The decline in the value of our economy, currency and gdp per capita over the last 25 years really is criminal. How did we get it so wrong? Manuel could do a better job Edited 13 January by Tommy G 1
leicsmac Posted 13 January Posted 13 January 4 minutes ago, Muzzy_no7 said: You seem to have forgotten my friend, anyone slightly right of centre is ‘far right’ now. I wonder exactly how those who would endorse the incoming US administration and their policies, would be enthusiastic about doing business with them (as opposed to seeing it as an occasional difficult necessity) and prefer them to the EU would be defined as then - centre or far right? Honestly curious because I find it tricky to really see what way the Overton Window is shifting as it does it so often. 2
surrifox Posted 13 January Posted 13 January 18 minutes ago, Tommy G said: It's to distract from Rachel in accounts groundbreaking MEGA DEAL with China, worth £600m over 5 years £/$ now 1.21, wonder when it falls below 1.20. not been opening up new pork markets has she? 1
grobyfox1990 Posted 13 January Posted 13 January 38 minutes ago, Tommy G said: It's to distract from Rachel in accounts groundbreaking MEGA DEAL with China, worth £600m over 5 years £/$ now 1.21, wonder when it falls below 1.20. Did you see Friday's job numbers?
Dahnsouff Posted 13 January Posted 13 January Seeing as the Labour Party is also disappointingly not going to do anything anbout inequality, how do we make the incumbents do something about it? There is no party we can vote for, no petition we can sign, no lobbyists we can afford, and no champion of the people who won’t soon switch sides. Back to shouting obscenities outside Parliament seems the thing to do.
Spudulike Posted 13 January Posted 13 January So as the fires continue to rage in America due to climate change, the BBC think its a good idea to fly Clive Myrie over to Los Angeles to report live from the scene. The corporation have previous for this when they sent the same correspondent to Australia to report on devastating bush fires. Not a good message from the beeb and a waste of licence payers money 3
Tommy G Posted 13 January Posted 13 January 30 minutes ago, Spudulike said: So as the fires continue to rage in America due to climate change, the BBC think its a good idea to fly Clive Myrie over to Los Angeles to report live from the scene. The corporation have previous for this when they sent the same correspondent to Australia to report on devastating bush fires. Not a good message from the beeb and a waste of licence payers money A bit tricky to drive there but I get your point
st albans fox Posted 13 January Posted 13 January (edited) We may not like trump as a person or his policies but it seems he’s threatened everyone to get a ceasefire deal agreed. basically the Qataris, Egyptians and Turks are scared of what he’ll do and even netenyahu doesn’t want to try his patience and has been pushed to make concessions. hamas left with little choice but to go along with stage 1 and 2. Whether we get into stage 2 is questionable because reports are that there arent much more than around 30 living hostages. footnote: trump has forced BN to concede more than his RW coalition may allow. The govt could fall over this. Odds against but feasible. Edited 13 January by st albans fox
Foxdiamond Posted 13 January Posted 13 January 2 hours ago, Spudulike said: So as the fires continue to rage in America due to climate change, the BBC think its a good idea to fly Clive Myrie over to Los Angeles to report live from the scene. The corporation have previous for this when they sent the same correspondent to Australia to report on devastating bush fires. Not a good message from the beeb and a waste of licence payers money A very good point. On a slightly different point they will often send a reporter to stand outside Buck House or no 10 or wherever when nobody is going to come from the buildings concerned with update on said story. They could simply stay in the studio with a photo behind them on the screen.
HighPeakFox Posted 13 January Posted 13 January 7 hours ago, Muzzy_no7 said: You seem to have forgotten my friend, anyone slightly right of centre is ‘far right’ now. Not so - but point taken. However, you seem not to have noticed how far the centre has shifted to the right. Ever heard of the Overton Window? 2
leicsmac Posted 13 January Posted 13 January 1 hour ago, st albans fox said: We may not like trump as a person or his policies but it seems he’s threatened everyone to get a ceasefire deal agreed. basically the Qataris, Egyptians and Turks are scared of what he’ll do and even netenyahu doesn’t want to try his patience and has been pushed to make concessions. hamas left with little choice but to go along with stage 1 and 2. Whether we get into stage 2 is questionable because reports are that there arent much more than around 30 living hostages. footnote: trump has forced BN to concede more than his RW coalition may allow. The govt could fall over this. Odds against but feasible. ...is there any reason to suspect Trump to be the architect of this beyond timing and supposition? 1
bovril Posted 13 January Posted 13 January (edited) 14 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said: Not so - but point taken. However, you seem not to have noticed how far the centre has shifted to the right. Ever heard of the Overton Window? I'm not sure how relevant it is to talk about the Overton window anymore at a time of media fragmentation, social media etc. People are exposed to such a wide range of quite extreme views now from what we'd typically think of as both right and left. At the same time the tone of political discourse has totally changed, which is also a consequence of social media. Certainly some views that I would have considered quite extreme 10-15 years ago have become normalised, but then the world has totally changed from that time anyway. So maybe it's just that the window has got wider, not shifted. Edited 13 January by bovril
st albans fox Posted 13 January Posted 13 January Just now, leicsmac said: ...is there any reason to suspect Trump to be the architect of this beyond timing and supposition? why would there be a ceasefire agreement a few days before a change in administration. If Biden was able to have bullied Israel into an agreement then he’d have done it earlier - now makes no sense as Israel would just wait it out till next week. similarly, why would Hamas have now agreed to things they’d previously resisted? reports are that trumps Middle Eastern envoy has been involved in pushing this deal through pre inauguration. Trump stated many times that he wanted this done by 20th. It works for both presidents. Biden can claim he brought this about within his time and trump can claim he was responsible. Biden’s claim is true but pretty vacuous imo.
HighPeakFox Posted 13 January Posted 13 January 4 minutes ago, bovril said: I'm not sure how relevant it is to talk about the Overton window anymore at a time of media fragmentation, social media etc. People are exposed to such a wide range of quite extreme views now from what we'd typically think of as both right and left. At the same time the tone of political discourse has totally changed, which is also a consequence of social media. Certainly some views that I would have considered quite extreme 10-15 years ago have become normalised, but then the world has totally changed from that time anyway. So maybe it's just that the window has got wider, not shifted. I think there is a far greater prevalence of far right views than far left, and how far the Labour party has had to shift right is somewhat indicative of that. I tend to find that (I suppose understandably) those on the right baulk at the idea that they might be being pushed farther right the entire time. In my opinion, that's what has happened and continues to happen. 1
leicsmac Posted 13 January Posted 13 January 5 minutes ago, st albans fox said: why would there be a ceasefire agreement a few days before a change in administration. If Biden was able to have bullied Israel into an agreement then he’d have done it earlier - now makes no sense as Israel would just wait it out till next week. similarly, why would Hamas have now agreed to things they’d previously resisted? reports are that trumps Middle Eastern envoy has been involved in pushing this deal through pre inauguration. Trump stated many times that he wanted this done by 20th. It works for both presidents. Biden can claim he brought this about within his time and trump can claim he was responsible. Biden’s claim is true but pretty vacuous imo. So the timing is the key element here, then. I'm not going to discount it out of hand, but speaking personally I'd like rather more proof before I would agree.
leicsmac Posted 13 January Posted 13 January 7 minutes ago, bovril said: I'm not sure how relevant it is to talk about the Overton window anymore at a time of media fragmentation, social media etc. People are exposed to such a wide range of quite extreme views now from what we'd typically think of as both right and left. At the same time the tone of political discourse has totally changed, which is also a consequence of social media. Certainly some views that I would have considered quite extreme 10-15 years ago have become normalised, but then the world has totally changed from that time anyway. So maybe it's just that the window has got wider, not shifted. I think the terms are steadily becoming more and more redundant as meaning and, yes, viewpoints shift quickly anyway. AFAIC now, as more as things develop, the division that will matter will be the ones who are willing to think and act for the long-term survival of their civilisation, and those who think we're here for a good time rather than a long time and are so willing to condemn the future for the sake of that cause. Left and right don't come into it - you'll find both that share both of those viewpoints.
st albans fox Posted 13 January Posted 13 January 7 minutes ago, leicsmac said: So the timing is the key element here, then. I'm not going to discount it out of hand, but speaking personally I'd like rather more proof before I would agree. You won’t get any proof both administrations will claim its them that did it reports in Qatari media say witkoff applied a lot of pressure on netenyahu to get a deal agreed. as I said in my post. Israel making concessions makes no sense a week before trump takes over unless it’s what trump wants. incidentslly, it could still fall apart - latest reports I’ve seen are that the 33 names are who Israel have requested to be freed first phase - but Hamas have not confirmed if any of these 33 are alive. Obviously, Israel are not going to release a thousand convicted Hamas/PIJ members (all serving > 15 years) for 33 corpses.
leicsmac Posted 13 January Posted 13 January 41 minutes ago, st albans fox said: You won’t get any proof both administrations will claim its them that did it reports in Qatari media say witkoff applied a lot of pressure on netenyahu to get a deal agreed. as I said in my post. Israel making concessions makes no sense a week before trump takes over unless it’s what trump wants. incidentslly, it could still fall apart - latest reports I’ve seen are that the 33 names are who Israel have requested to be freed first phase - but Hamas have not confirmed if any of these 33 are alive. Obviously, Israel are not going to release a thousand convicted Hamas/PIJ members (all serving > 15 years) for 33 corpses. Fair to say. I guess we'll find out as things develop.
Tuna Posted 13 January Posted 13 January Farage is boasting of hoe Reform are the real opposition after a You Gov poll puts them in second place to Labour; I am yet to be convinced Reform are anything other than a social media phenomenon and these polls will not translate into votes in a general election. To claim they are the real opposition with 5 MPs is laughable.
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