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Posted
18 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

All we have is Ruud implying he wouldn't move closer to the training ground or agree to stay there. But, again, forget your fandom and your own personal love for the club for a second. You're commuting to your work place from your home, getting there on time for 9am every day, leaving after 5 every day, doing everything reasonably expected of you. Then along comes a new boss who thinks his staff should live closer to the office so that they can pull overtime and extra shifts for no more money. Despite that, he's actually freezing you out at work, isn't giving you anything to do, you're being held back from actually achieving your career goals and - worse still - he's favouring some absolute incompetent who is objectively worse than you AND who genuinely did refuse to stay and fight last year when the company was actually in trouble? Oh and if you don't comply he's going to go public and tell everyone you aren't committed enough to do it and you should because you're well paid.

 


I’d agree wholeheartedly with this in an office / restaurant / building site / any normal working environment. 
 

Not, however, in elite sports. If the performance Director says that sitting for 4 hours a day in a car is hampering your fitness / recovery / performance, then you should not only listen you should be embracing his advice (and it’s pretty obviously correct).
 

The trouble with this line of reasoning is that we don’t have a Performance Director, we had an under-staffed manager, who had lost respect, and was trying to instil standards into a workforce that had been allowed to largely do what they want, with a Board that would back them and not their manager. 
 

Our problems are symptoms, and always point in the same direction

  • Like 4
Posted

I think this is just destined forever to be an awful mistake. The thing is, transfers aren't as easy as people often make out, but this one was so patently a bad move from day 1 you do question what the hell was going on. 

 

The fee for Skipp would have been a bit insane for a normal club, but for one who has PSR issues it seems it was just evidence that past failures haven't been learnt from. Even comparing it to the lump alongside him at the weekend, I could at least see some logic in the Soumare signing. 

 

I said previously I thought he'd be a decent player for us in the Champ but I've massively downgraded my expectations since then. Looks like an average Champ clogger at the moment.

  • Like 4
Posted
2 hours ago, Number 6 said:

I think this is just destined forever to be an awful mistake. The thing is, transfers aren't as easy as people often make out, but this one was so patently a bad move from day 1 you do question what the hell was going on. 

 

The fee for Skipp would have been a bit insane for a normal club, but for one who has PSR issues it seems it was just evidence that past failures haven't been learnt from. Even comparing it to the lump alongside him at the weekend, I could at least see some logic in the Soumare signing. 

 

I said previously I thought he'd be a decent player for us in the Champ but I've massively downgraded my expectations since then. Looks like an average Champ clogger at the moment.

The fact that KDH has just signed for Everton for  £25m plus add ons, not much more than we paid for Skipp just underlines what you have said. It’s not Skipp’s fault. He has barely been used. This squarely lies with JRs and the boards poor management. 

  • Like 1
Posted
2 hours ago, Claudio Fannieri said:

Biggest issue for me with all our deep lying midfielders is that they offer very little in terms of athleticism or in terms of being able to provide much in the way of attacking contributions, they are all so safe in possession,. 
 

Winks, Skipp, Ndidi and Soumare offer so little in creative terms and I would also say lack physical presence or athleticism. We desperately need midfielders in the profile of Adam Wharton, Declan Rice types who can effectively shield the back 4 but also contribute in our attacking play. 
 

Whilst our 4 on paper should bully most championship midfields I still feel it is woefully inadequate and unbalanced to truly dominate the division and to give us any semblance of hope should we get promoted again. 
 

And bear in mind the 4 players I have mentioned are probably earning over £200k per week between them and cost us over £80m British pounds, you would like to think they offer a little bit more to be honest. 

I wouldn't worry too much about what happens if we were get promoted again. Winks and Soumare are out of contract, Ndidi will be long gone. So we'd have a chance to replace them. 

  • Like 1
Posted (edited)

Im sure he’ll be a decent player this year as its his level but everyone knew it was a bizarre signing at the time. Hes not a Premier league player. Small frame, slow, weak, offers nothing going forward and not exactly great defensively. 

Edited by South Shire Fox
Posted
12 hours ago, Finnegan said:

 

I want to see them in different roles though tbf.

 

My only real disappointment so far in Cifuentes is Soumare starting at the base of the midfield. 

 

I feel a bit for Winks, I understand him being disillusioned last year and not wanting to buy in to Ruud and Cooper, I understand him telling Ruud where to stick it over his off-field requests when he had no intention of playing him anyway.

 

Winks has spent most of his career with managers not giving him the chance to play in his best position becuase he's not 6' 2" and a unit.

 

Would like to see Cifuentes have the courage to not only play Winks but play Winks as the pivot and build the defence around that consideration. You don't NEED a big lad sat in front of the back four.

 

Our best midfield, on paper, for me at the moment is Winks sitting, Skipp B2B and Bilal attacking. That's defensive enough for a league in which we'll dominate posession in the vast majority of games.

 

I don’t see Skipp as a box to box midfielder. He’s not got the dynamism required. Lacks pace & energy. 

  • Like 1
Posted
9 hours ago, funkyrobot said:

I don’t see Skipp as a box to box midfielder. He’s not got the dynamism required. Lacks pace & energy. 

I though his energy was supposed to be his main asset?

Posted
Just now, MGLCFC said:

I thought his energy was supposed to be his main asset?

Have we honestly seen any stand out assets in the games Skipp has played as of yet? Hopefully this will be his season but I’ve not seen much in the way of energetic box to box play in his game as of yet. Winks looked better at it against Fiorentina and he gets criticised for not having that in his game! 

Posted
1 hour ago, funkyrobot said:

Have we honestly seen any stand out assets in the games Skipp has played as of yet? Hopefully this will be his season but I’ve not seen much in the way of energetic box to box play in his game as of yet. Winks looked better at it against Fiorentina and he gets criticised for not having that in his game! 

I don't disagree with you, he's been a poor signing and for me, like you, Winks offers more. All I'm suggesting is that when we bought him, his energy was supposed to be his main asset.

  • Like 1
Posted
54 minutes ago, MGLCFC said:

I don't disagree with you, he's been a poor signing and for me, like you, Winks offers more. All I'm suggesting is that when we bought him, his energy was supposed to be his main asset.

He looks knackered a lot of the time to me. 

 

Winks is clearly a class or two above Skipp and now he's over his Enzo crush I'd put him back in ahead of Skipp 

  • Like 3
Posted
9 hours ago, kingfox said:

Wow, I’m quite surprised that some fans think he had an average game on Sunday. Also quite surprised that you think he lacks energy @funkyrobot

 

Skipp’s pressing on Sunday was outstanding, and even though I was surprised, I can see why Marti tried him in a box-to-box role purely on the basis for Skipp to be an important pressing trigger. His performance on Sunday was energetic, and I thought it’s the most lively he has looked in a Leicester shirt. 
 

The question of “What does he actually do” gets mentioned a lot, he doesn’t offer enough G/A for example to potentially be a box-to-box midfielder. The way I saw it on Sunday, our pressing was such an important part of our game, and Skipp was pivotal to that. He produced the kind of work that can go unnoticed, his off the ball work on Sunday was like watching a different version of Oliver Skipp. 
 

Now it all depends how Marti wants to play him. Skipp has been more associated with the deep-lying 6 role, but I can see why Marti played him as a box-to-box midfielder on Sunday. Ideally I don’t think it should be a long term solution, along with a striker, that midfield role is the only other hole that needs filling in our starting 11. 
 

But for Skipp himself, his performance on Sunday was encouraging imo. We’ve got so accustomed to him being shit, but I’m willing to be a bit more patient with him, history suggests there’s clearly a player in there, especially at Championship level, hopefully Marti can help bring the best out of him. 

Presumably you've got stats that contradict my view on Skipp. Admittedly my opinion was based on the eye and I guess with his previous performances for us in my mind. IMO  he did not look like a £25m box to box midfielder. I saw a player that when we had throw ins not move or want the ball. I saw him beaten to 50/50 balls and I genuinely didn’t see anything on or off the ball that I wouldn’t expect of an eager u21 player thrown into a game. There was endeavour but nothing particularly outstanding and I thought we looked much better in the second half when Winks was in the centre alongside Soumare, even though at that point Fiorentina had brought more of their first 11 on. Winks ran with the ball better, and used the ball better than Skipp and meant our wingers weren’t the only thing Fiorentina had to worry about. I genuinely hope Skipp comes good but at the moment he’s not someone I’d expect the opposition to be particularly worried about. 

  • Like 1
Posted
9 hours ago, kingfox said:

Wow, I’m quite surprised that some fans think he had an average game on Sunday. Also quite surprised that you think he lacks energy @funkyrobot

 

Skipp’s pressing on Sunday was outstanding, and even though I was surprised, I can see why Marti tried him in a box-to-box role purely on the basis for Skipp to be an important pressing trigger. His performance on Sunday was energetic, and I thought it’s the most lively he has looked in a Leicester shirt. 
 

The question of “What does he actually do” gets mentioned a lot, he doesn’t offer enough G/A for example to potentially be a box-to-box midfielder. The way I saw it on Sunday, our pressing was such an important part of our game, and Skipp was pivotal to that. He produced the kind of work that can go unnoticed, his off the ball work on Sunday was like watching a different version of Oliver Skipp. 
 

Now it all depends how Marti wants to play him. Skipp has been more associated with the deep-lying 6 role, but I can see why Marti played him as a box-to-box midfielder on Sunday. Ideally I don’t think it should be a long term solution, along with a striker, that midfield role is the only other hole that needs filling in our starting 11. 
 

But for Skipp himself, his performance on Sunday was encouraging imo. We’ve got so accustomed to him being shit, but I’m willing to be a bit more patient with him, history suggests there’s clearly a player in there, especially at Championship level, hopefully Marti can help bring the best out of him. 

100%, he was the hardest working player on the pitch by a country mile. If he can keep that level of fitness up all season, he’ll be a key asset. He’s got a hell of an engine in him but lacks any ability, a poor man’s Kante performance dare I say.

  • Like 2
Posted

I think he will be good enough for us in the Championship. A bad signing, but people forget that last time in the Championship, players like Faes and Vestergaard looked like prime Puyol and Maldini. Should look to upgrade if and when we get back to the Premier League. Until then, he will be solid enough for us. 

Posted
48 minutes ago, funkyrobot said:

Presumably you've got stats that contradict my view on Skipp. Admittedly my opinion was based on the eye and I guess with his previous performances for us in my mind. IMO  he did not look like a £25m box to box midfielder. I saw a player that when we had throw ins not move or want the ball. I saw him beaten to 50/50 balls and I genuinely didn’t see anything on or off the ball that I wouldn’t expect of an eager u21 player thrown into a game. There was endeavour but nothing particularly outstanding and I thought we looked much better in the second half when Winks was in the centre alongside Soumare, even though at that point Fiorentina had brought more of their first 11 on. Winks ran with the ball better, and used the ball better than Skipp and meant our wingers weren’t the only thing Fiorentina had to worry about. I genuinely hope Skipp comes good but at the moment he’s not someone I’d expect the opposition to be particularly worried about. 

I genuinely thought he pressed like a madman on Sunday, and that was very evident in the first few minutes of the match, pressing high as a team and Skipp was an important cog to how intense our press was on Sunday. I thought he was lively, put in the yards all over the pitch and his overall performance was a pleasant surprise. 
 

You say he was beaten to 50/50 balls, but there was also numerous times in the game where he tracked back and made successful tackles and interceptions. 
 

In terms of Winks, we all know he is probably our best midfielder with the ball, it’s no surprise he used the ball better than others. Of course he had that big moment where he managed to break and setup Daka. 
 

But I genuinely feel the criticism for Skipp after Sunday is baffling, yes he’s been shit and I’ve happily criticised him in the past, but the way he pressed on Sunday was the best I’ve seen from him. 

  • Like 3
Posted
51 minutes ago, Mon.is.a.god said:

100%, he was the hardest working player on the pitch by a country mile. If he can keep that level of fitness up all season, he’ll be a key asset. He’s got a hell of an engine in him but lacks any ability, a poor man’s Kante performance dare I say.

Hard working as a central midfielder should be a prerequisite. It’s not a skill that needs to be taught and a good manager will ensure his players in those key roles  

are exactly that. I think Cifuentes is a manager that will ultimately have a team of hard workers over time. Skipp’s nothing like Kante tho. For me, he’s a poor man’s Harry Winks and therein lies the problem. 

Posted
3 minutes ago, kingfox said:

I genuinely thought he pressed like a madman on Sunday, and that was very evident in the first few minutes of the match, pressing high as a team and Skipp was an important cog to how intense our press was on Sunday. I thought he was lively, put in the yards all over the pitch and his overall performance was a pleasant surprise. 
 

You say he was beaten to 50/50 balls, but there was also numerous times in the game where he tracked back and made successful tackles and interceptions. 
 

In terms of Winks, we all know he is probably our best midfielder with the ball, it’s no surprise he used the ball better than others. Of course he had that big moment where he managed to break and setup Daka. 
 

But I genuinely feel the criticism for Skipp after Sunday is baffling, yes he’s been shit and I’ve happily criticised him in the past, but the way he pressed on Sunday was the best I’ve seen from him. 

Yep. His energy and pressing was really impressive on Sunday.

 

Overall performance was probably average but he can definitely run!
 

Should do OK in the Championship.

  • Like 2
Posted
5 minutes ago, kingfox said:

I genuinely thought he pressed like a madman on Sunday, and that was very evident in the first few minutes of the match, pressing high as a team and Skipp was an important cog to how intense our press was on Sunday. I thought he was lively, put in the yards all over the pitch and his overall performance was a pleasant surprise. 
 

You say he was beaten to 50/50 balls, but there was also numerous times in the game where he tracked back and made successful tackles and interceptions. 
 

In terms of Winks, we all know he is probably our best midfielder with the ball, it’s no surprise he used the ball better than others. Of course he had that big moment where he managed to break and setup Daka. 
 

But I genuinely feel the criticism for Skipp after Sunday is baffling, yes he’s been shit and I’ve happily criticised him in the past, but the way he pressed on Sunday was the best I’ve seen from him. 

I just think if I had the choice between a hard working Skipp or a hard working Winks, I’d pick the latter based on their footballing ability. Both pressed similarly for me, just yet to be convinced about what Skipp can do on the ball. I don’t think we can afford to have a player that literally just works hard but not much else. 

Posted
7 minutes ago, funkyrobot said:

Hard working as a central midfielder should be a prerequisite. It’s not a skill that needs to be taught and a good manager will ensure his players in those key roles  

are exactly that. I think Cifuentes is a manager that will ultimately have a team of hard workers over time. Skipp’s nothing like Kante tho. For me, he’s a poor man’s Harry Winks and therein lies the problem. 

I totally agree but it’s a combination of fitness, determination and mentality which are not a given.

 

I disagree with the Winks comparison though. Watch Skipp’s highlights when he was at Norwich in the championship. He was a solid ball winning midfielder which Winks is definitely not and Skipp is definitely not a deep lying playmaker which Winks most probably is but I’m still unsure.

Posted

I’m willing to give him a chance this season and hope he can do well. I’d FAR rather have an Oliver Skipp this season than a Soumare who has had so many bloody chances and quite frankly, is mostly a disgrace to the shirt through lack of effort (not necessarily ability). 
 

Hoping Cifuentes goes with the players who actually want to play for us this season. 

  • Like 2
Posted
9 minutes ago, Dickov22 said:

I’m willing to give him a chance this season and hope he can do well. I’d FAR rather have an Oliver Skipp this season than a Soumare who has had so many bloody chances and quite frankly, is mostly a disgrace to the shirt through lack of effort (not necessarily ability). 
 

Hoping Cifuentes goes with the players who actually want to play for us this season. 

Me too. Needs to completely Bic his head though. Could turn into prime Juan Veron if he did that

  • Haha 1
Posted
18 minutes ago, funkyrobot said:

I just think if I had the choice between a hard working Skipp or a hard working Winks, I’d pick the latter based on their footballing ability. Both pressed similarly for me, just yet to be convinced about what Skipp can do on the ball. I don’t think we can afford to have a player that literally just works hard but not much else. 

Be very interesting to see how this pans out. I remember asking my Spurs mate when we signed Winks and then Skipp. He thought Winks was not much cop but a high regard for Skipp.

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