Bournemouth (H) Pre match thread (05.10.24, 3pm)

[FoxOnWheels]

1 hour ago, FoxinNotts said:

If he starts winning games, I have no issue

Same here I don’t dislike him for any reason other than he’s been shit if we started winning games then crack on whilst your getting the results

[Corbee]

On 28/09/2024 at 17:12, Nolucklcfc said:

Must win. 

Draw 1-1 and that is being on the optimistic side. Really struggling to see where the first win is coming. 

🙏🏻 I'm wrong and do pull off a result. 

Defeat and it's gotta be time for a managerial rethink. 

Team selection each week leaves me bewildered. 

[Pliskin]

I predict 1-4 defeat, and Cooper gone by Sunday lunch time. 

[J. James]

As well as confirmation bias (those people manically calling for sacking after a handful of frankly expected results),
we are also seeing "mission creep", i.e. expectation being raised above pure survival to "must win" against a team like Bournemouth (over double our points total) who some describe as "dogsh*t"!

 

Had we lost every one or had we picked up one point from seven (remember that?) - then some of the opinions on here may have been justified.

 

This is clearly not a must win and Bournemouth are clearly not a bad side.

 

A good performance will gain us a point i think, a win is very unlikely, much less likely than a loss.

 

As far as Coopers job is concerned,

A win = job safe

Draw = job safe

Loss = job safe

 

And no amount of wishful posting on here is changing this position for months if at all this season.

[ClaphamFox]

34 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

I predict 1-4 defeat, and Cooper gone by Sunday lunch time. 

Based on what? Spurs and Villa are much better sides than Bournemouth and we got a point in one of those games and should have got a point in the other.

Getting thrashed at home by Bournemouth is not going to happen under Cooper. What probably will happen is that his long-term pattern (including his time at Forest) of mainly narrowly losing or drawing games in the PL continues until the board cannot ignore it any longer.

 

13 minutes ago, J. James said:

As well as confirmation bias (those people manically calling for sacking after a handful of frankly expected results),
we are also seeing "mission creep", i.e. expectation being raised above pure survival to "must win" against a team like Bournemouth (over double our points total) who some describe as "dogsh*t"!

 

Had we lost every one or had we picked up one point from seven (remember that?) - then some of the opinions on here may have been justified.

 

This is clearly not a must win and Bournemouth are clearly not a bad side.

 

A good performance will gain us a point i think, a win is very unlikely, much less likely than a loss.

 

As far as Coopers job is concerned,

A win = job safe

Draw = job safe

Loss = job safe

 

And no amount of wishful posting on here is changing this position for months if at all this season.

I'm sorry, but this is just as irrational as believing the board is going to sack him after three points from our first six games. Relegation back to the Championship, where the EFL is already sharpening the knives and boiling a vat of tar in anticipation of our return, would be a disaster. The club is no more likely to sit around and let that happen than it is to pull the trigger after six games.

 

It's simple. Will Cooper be sacked after a draw or narrow loss on Saturday? Probably not. Will he be sacked if that continues over the three games after that? I think he will.

[winteriscoming]

1 hour ago, Pliskin said:

I predict 1-4 defeat, and Cooper gone by Sunday lunch time. 

I have a similar feeling. Reminds me when we lost heavily to Palace at home and Puel was gone the next day. 

[Ric Flair]

47 minutes ago, J. James said:

As well as confirmation bias (those people manically calling for sacking after a handful of frankly expected results),
we are also seeing "mission creep", i.e. expectation being raised above pure survival to "must win" against a team like Bournemouth (over double our points total) who some describe as "dogsh*t"!

 

Had we lost every one or had we picked up one point from seven (remember that?) - then some of the opinions on here may have been justified.

 

This is clearly not a must win and Bournemouth are clearly not a bad side.

 

A good performance will gain us a point i think, a win is very unlikely, much less likely than a loss.

 

As far as Coopers job is concerned,

A win = job safe

Draw = job safe

Loss = job safe

 

And no amount of wishful posting on here is changing this position for months if at all this season.

You may be correct but two things I keep coming back to. The outcome of our 2022/23 PSR challenge, means if we are going to get charged it's likely to be by the EFL when we are next relegated. So the margin for error now becomes even less for bouncing back immediately and whether that sways pur club I don't know.

 

Not to mention our club recruited Cooper at a time it was made to believe we'd breached and a points deduction seemed likely. Was he our only viable option and now it wouldn't be?

 

My 2nd point is that this regime feels very much like Crais Shakespeares in 2017/18. Similar basic tactics but we competed in most games but just couldn't win. Vichai quickly acted in Octobet 2017, would Top do the same?

[Sol thewall Bamba]

Reckon this will be a real gauge of how much shitter we are this season than last. I know it was in the cup but we beat these last season at their place, and it was deserved. 

 

Plus the fact it's *Boscombe and Bournemouth Athletic*, it could turn very nasty if we lose by a few. 

[CrazyKopCorner]

2 hours ago, Pliskin said:

I predict 1-4 defeat, and Cooper gone by Sunday lunch time. 

I never want us to lose but the thought of Cooper gone would be a relief so we could at least try and get a professional manager in. 

 

I predict a 1-2 defeat and Cooper staying in to November at least unfortunately. 

[TheGoldenGod]

1 hour ago, J. James said:

As well as confirmation bias (those people manically calling for sacking after a handful of frankly expected results),
we are also seeing "mission creep", i.e. expectation being raised above pure survival to "must win" against a team like Bournemouth (over double our points total) who some describe as "dogsh*t"!

 

Had we lost every one or had we picked up one point from seven (remember that?) - then some of the opinions on here may have been justified.

 

This is clearly not a must win and Bournemouth are clearly not a bad side.

 

A good performance will gain us a point i think, a win is very unlikely, much less likely than a loss.

 

As far as Coopers job is concerned,

A win = job safe

Draw = job safe

Loss = job safe

 

And no amount of wishful posting on here is changing this position for months if at all this season.

If it's not a "must-win", what is to you? Just beating Saints home and away, maybe Ipswich and Wolves won't keep us up . So you're either being way too shortsighted or you admit we're not going into enough games this season demanding wins and therefore are doomed for relegation.

[Happy Fox]

Can see Palace drawing at home to Liverpool, and us losing at home to Bournemouth means we will be in the bottom three, so hopefully then Cooper will be sacked!

[Jobyfox]

I hope we win this match, a few more, we stay up and Cooper stays. That’s surely the best scenario. 
 

I’m not a Cooper fan and thought he was the wrong appointment from the outset, but the best outcome for the club is still that he’s successful. It just seems unnecessarily vindictive to want us to lose to prove a point. 
 

That’s not to say that I want him to stay and the pressure will mount if he doesn’t win this. Certainly I think he should go if there isn’t a decent points return from the next three games. 

[J. James]

 

 

17 minutes ago, TheGoldenGod said:

If it's not a "must-win", what is to you? Just beating Saints home and away, maybe Ipswich and Wolves won't keep us up . So you're either being way too shortsighted or you admit we're not going into enough games this season demanding wins and therefore are doomed for relegation.

Well, demanding wins is one thing, winning is altogether different.

I said before the season started that there is a way for us to stay up, a formula that will work, but l also said it would take a tactical genius which Cooper or ANY coach who would come here is not.

 

There are winnable games and l hope we go for it against Bournemouth but realistically no matter how attacking we are, they also want to win (obvs) so a draw seems likely and to me at least ok.

 

I didn't want Cooper but C.C. however l think he should be given some slack as its down to our owner that we are here not him.

[pmcla26]

28 minutes ago, TheGoldenGod said:

If it's not a "must-win", what is to you? Just beating Saints home and away, maybe Ipswich and Wolves won't keep us up . So you're either being way too shortsighted or you admit we're not going into enough games this season demanding wins and therefore are doomed for relegation.

You're right, but on that topic I can see it being an extremely low total needed to survive this year. Was 27 points last season and think it could be even less this time around. 

[TheGoldenGod]

5 minutes ago, J. James said:

 

 

Well, demanding wins is one thing, winning is altogether different.

I said before the season started that there is a way for us to stay up, a formula that will work, but l also said it would take a tactical genius which Cooper or ANY coach who would come here is not.

 

There are winnable games and l hope we go for it against Bournemouth but realistically no matter how attacking we are, they also want to win (obvs) so a draw seems likely and to me at least ok.

 

I didn't want Cooper but C.C. however l think he should be given some slack as its down to our owner that we are here not him.

I think prior to a ball being kicked this season the management team would be looking at the calendar and planning where they back themselves to get points, and where they probably won't (despite what Cooper or any player might say in interviews). That's just the reality. Arsenal most likely nothing, Bournemouth at HOME I'd bet that was 3 points.

 

The more the season goes on without a win, the more certain fixtures have to turn from losses to draws and draws to wins in Coopers eyes. They'll have a point target and things will change as football is obviously unpredictable. 

Basically what I'm getting at is if they players and manager go into this game on the weekend with the mentality to just try to take a point and be content...then we're screwed! Slow Start FC.

[FoxesWalk]

This is one of those where we have to be going for the win. A draw would be an okay result, they are a good side. But it’s at home, the wins have got to come from somewhere… fancy this one, heads should be up a bit after doing fairly well vs Arsenal. Need to tighten up at the back though. 

[TheGoldenGod]

1 hour ago, pmcla26 said:

You're right, but on that topic I can see it being an extremely low total needed to survive this year. Was 27 points last season and think it could be even less this time around. 

Possibly but the bottom 3 at this point last year had 1 point, and palace have 3 so at present you'd have to say it'll be higher

[Tommy G]

Evanilson is no mug at £40m, he scored the other night so this might be the start of a purple patch. Can see that Tavernier pinging one in from about 30 yards as our defenders stand off...they are a bit workman like, like us. It's 50/50 

Edited 3 October 2024 by Tommy G

[Bob Weasel Fox]

18 hours ago, Clever Fox said:

My fear is that we do win this game and it buys him more time.

To be fair I don't think anyone really cares if he starts getting the team playing well or more importantly actually winning games there would be no issue (or very little)

 

it's because he can't get us winning that there is a problem in the first place 

[Ashley]

Can't believe I've seen the day where Leicester City are at home and aren't favourites against Bournemouth. 

 

Jesus christ.

[J. James]

2 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

You may be correct but two things I keep coming back to. The outcome of our 2022/23 PSR challenge, means if we are going to get charged it's likely to be by the EFL when we are next relegated. So the margin for error now becomes even less for bouncing back immediately and whether that sways pur club I don't know.

 

Not to mention our club recruited Cooper at a time it was made to believe we'd breached and a points deduction seemed likely. Was he our only viable option and now it wouldn't be?

 

My 2nd point is that this regime feels very much like Crais Shakespeares in 2017/18. Similar basic tactics but we competed in most games but just couldn't win. Vichai quickly acted in Octobet 2017, would Top do the same?

Ahh, your last point, i dont believe he would no, the Rodgers debacle points me in that direction ( l don't believe the "too expensive to sack him"  thing, they deal in multi millions not just millions) also his decisions regarding the directors who by any measure are under performing.

Frankly l think he believes what he's told by people with vested interests.

 

First point, They chose Cooper when we the great unwashed believed we were getting a big points deduction, if they thought that too they either chose him believing he could avoid relegation by deduction + 1 or resigned themselves to the drop anyway, l can't believe this option.

Did they believe that the case was won before the hearing? l think so, our council is clearly a very persuasive man and Top seems to be ready to be persuaded!

 

As far as falling into the EFL again, that is like falling off a high cliff with crocodiles at the bottom, by the time you hit the rocks the crocodiles aren't a worry anymore!

 

IOW dropping to the EFL now would be a disaster anyway.

 

In any case no amount of fear and trepidation of the drop can influence your decision of who to appoint, you just pick the man you believe has the best chance of success.

I thought and still think Cooper is the wrong choice, but we (they) chose him and l think he should be given a bit longer than 6 games, if he fails, then just like keeping the fraud it's mostly on them.

 

And just to finish on this happy subject... So they sack him, how much confidence do you have in the selection of his successor?

Who would be persuasive?

A short list of two?

Lampard or Gerrard...

I rest my case m'lud.

[Ric Flair]

1 minute ago, J. James said:

Ahh, your last point, i dont believe he would no, the Rodgers debacle points me in that direction ( l don't believe the "too expensive to sack him"  thing, they deal in multi millions not just millions) also his decisions regarding the directors who by any measure are under performing.

Frankly l think he believes what he's told by people with vested interests.

 

First point, They chose Cooper when we the great unwashed believed we were getting a big points deduction, if they thought that too they either chose him believing he could avoid relegation by deduction + 1 or resigned themselves to the drop anyway, l can't believe this option.

Did they believe that the case was won before the hearing? l think so, our council is clearly a very persuasive man and Top seems to be ready to be persuaded!

 

As far as falling into the EFL again, that is like falling off a high cliff with crocodiles at the bottom, by the time you hit the rocks the crocodiles aren't a worry anymore!

 

IOW dropping to the EFL now would be a disaster anyway.

 

In any case no amount of fear and trepidation of the drop can influence your decision of who to appoint, you just pick the man you believe has the best chance of success.

I thought and still think Cooper is the wrong choice, but we (they) chose him and l think he should be given a bit longer than 6 games, if he fails, then just like keeping the fraud it's mostly on them.

 

And just to finish on this happy subject... So they sack him, how much confidence do you have in the selection of his successor?

Who would be persuasive?

A short list of two?

Lampard or Gerrard...

I rest my case m'lud.

Hahahahaaaa perversely enjoyed this 😂

[J. James]

3 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Hahahahaaaa perversely enjoyed this 😂

I aim to educate, inform and entertain... But not necessarily in that order. 😉😊

[Bourbon Fox]

4 hours ago, J. James said:

we are also seeing "mission creep", i.e. expectation being raised above pure survival to "must win" against a team like Bournemouth

Yes, but this is what will happen over the course of the season if we continue to drop points against the teams immediately around us.

 

Nothing's 'must win' until you reach a point where the crunch is coming, then things get desperate and you start to need less and less probable results to stay in touch of 'pure survival'.

 

Bournemouth conceded 2 against Everton and lost to the hammers. They've only beaten Southampton and Everton. Points here are badly needed to make up for the 4 dropped against lower opposition. They should be bearable.

 

Lose this and the screw turns a little tighter, and the pressure is on to pick up points against Forest and Man Utd, with and Ipswich Everton facing runs of similar difficulty over the next few weeks.

Edited 3 October 2024 by Bourbon Fox

[Scanchez]

4 hours ago, J. James said:

As well as confirmation bias (those people manically calling for sacking after a handful of frankly expected results),
we are also seeing "mission creep", i.e. expectation being raised above pure survival to "must win" against a team like Bournemouth (over double our points total) who some describe as "dogsh*t"!

 

Had we lost every one or had we picked up one point from seven (remember that?) - then some of the opinions on here may have been justified.

 

This is clearly not a must win and Bournemouth are clearly not a bad side.

 

A good performance will gain us a point i think, a win is very unlikely, much less likely than a loss.

 

As far as Coopers job is concerned,

A win = job safe

Draw = job safe

Loss = job safe

 

And no amount of wishful posting on here is changing this position for months if at all this season.

Agreed. He's not going anywhere for a while.