Ruud van Nistelrooy - New Manager - Official

[sdb]

1 minute ago, Richmondfox said:

I never warmed to him, I couldn’t care less about the Forest connection more so that he was an excuse maker in all his interviews.

 

I watched his pre season playing players out of position and freezing some out, lack of tactics and improvement with the players which then rolled into the season.

 

I can’t believe that the people who scouted the potential of Bilal thought buying Ayew, Skipp and offering anything more than a 1 year deal for Reid was a good idea. 

Yep. Cooper was awful. We didn't deserve a single point we got under him. The recruitment was so bad it'll cripple the club for the next 5 years. The football was woeful and we'd have been comfortably relegated if he'd stayed.

 

The mistake was appointing someone far, far worse than him.

[Iwebema]

2 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

Pearson and Walsh actively targeted leaders, hard workers, grafters. They cleansed the squad of personalities they thought didn't fit and then they went about only signing players that did. They cultivated a culture here of work rate, determination and togetherness over anything else. 

This is spot on, and imo a key reason we are in the mess we are in. 

 

I know its been said before, but we have scattergunned our approach to recruitment for years, either relied on pure data or an agent to sell us a player, extremely similar to Man United just on a smaller scale budget wise.

 

And this is why teams like Brentford and Brighton have completely surpassed us.

 

As an example I'm sure it was Brentford who go and interview players first get a feel for who they are, speak to their family, do background checks etc, it's not just pure footballing ability they are interested in. We of all teams should understand this, 2016 wasn't won on pure footballing ability it was won on culture and togetherness.

 

But culture always starts at the top and with an owner who, whilst I know we could do worse, doesn't really have much interest and people like Rudkin who have been over promoted beyond all recognition, it sets the tone for everyone else.

 

[Finnegan]

18 minutes ago, Iwebema said:

This is spot on, and imo a key reason we are in the mess we are in. 

 

I know its been said before, but we have scattergunned our approach to recruitment for years, either relied on pure data or an agent to sell us a player, extremely similar to Man United just on a smaller scale budget wise.

 

And this is why teams like Brentford and Brighton have completely surpassed us.

 

As an example I'm sure it was Brentford who go and interview players first get a feel for who they are, speak to their family, do background checks etc, it's not just pure footballing ability they are interested in. We of all teams should understand this, 2016 wasn't won on pure footballing ability it was won on culture and togetherness.

 

But culture always starts at the top and with an owner who, whilst I know we could do worse, doesn't really have much interest and people like Rudkin who have been over promoted beyond all recognition, it sets the tone for everyone else.

 

 

Brentford is a really good point actually. 

 

Nobody would describe Thomas Frank as being "Sean Dyche like" would they? He's another one that's a thoughtful, well spoken academic. He's a student of sports science and sports psychology with no significant playing career. 

 

Tactically, his teams play some excellent football that can be great to watch and he's a long way from any kind of football dinosaur. 

 

But he's championed a culture he describes as "No Dickheads" which he credits to the All Blacks as being the defining feature of their recruitment. 

 

Yes, they are data driven, yes they recruit carefully using analytics to make sure a player fits the role they want to fill technically. 

 

But they also do a significant amount of work determining a player's personality and you don't get signed at Brentford if you don't fit the culture and a big part of that culture is working hard for the team and not having an ego. 

 

We desperately need to get that back because we lost it for years. Puel is hugely, hugely over rated by a section of revisionists on here but, credit where it's due, he did seem to understand this. 

 

Rodgers was the complete opposite. Actively went out and targeted people that were broken or wayward or didn't fit in elsewhere because he thought it would get you technically gifted players for cheap and now we're paying the price. 

 

[Bilo]

1 minute ago, Finnegan said:

 

Brentford is a really good point actually. 

 

Nobody would describe Thomas Frank as being "Sean Dyche like" would they? He's another one that's a thoughtful, well spoken academic. He's a student of sports science and sports psychology with no significant playing career. 

 

Tactically, his teams play some excellent football that can be great to watch and he's a long way from any kind of football dinosaur. 

 

But he's championed a culture he describes as "No Dickheads" which he credits to the All Blacks as being the defining feature of their recruitment. 

 

Yes, they are data driven, yes they recruit carefully using analytics to make sure a player fits the role they want to fill technically. 

 

But they also do a significant amount of work determining a player's personality and you don't get signed at Brentford if you don't fit the culture and a big part of that culture is working hard for the team and not having an ego. 

 

We desperately need to get that back because we lost it for years. Puel is hugely, hugely over rated by a section of revisionists on here but, credit where it's due, he did seem to understand this. 

 

Rodgers was the complete opposite. Actively went out and targeted people that were broken or wayward or didn't fit in elsewhere because he thought it would get you technically gifted players for cheap and now we're paying the price. 

 

He was tactically inept and had the man management ability of a potato, but that man really could build a team. Rodgers wouldn't have had the success he did without Puel.

[LVFox]

7 minutes ago, Bilo said:

He was tactically inept and had the man management ability of a potato, but that man really could build a team. Rodgers wouldn't have had the success he did without Puel.

Rodgers was obviously the height of our sustained success (in terms of consistent finishes, Europe etc)

 

But it doesn't happen without Pearson bringing the right characters in to give him an experienced base, Ranieri developing a rapid counter attacking side to scare any team we played and then Puel putting together a squad of quality that could then play the type of football needed for a top 6 team.

 

My point being is that the journey starts again, we need good recruitment and a coach who can foster that environment, we need tactical diligence to allow us to stay in the PL should we return. We can't go straight from here to how we played under Rodgers, we have to follow the steps  

[Bilo]

1 minute ago, LVFox said:

Rodgers was obviously the height of our sustained success (in terms of consistent finishes, Europe etc)

 

But it doesn't happen without Pearson bringing the right characters in to give him an experienced base, Ranieri developing a rapid counter attacking side to scare any team we played and then Puel putting together a squad of quality that could then play the type of football needed for a top 6 team.

 

My point being is that the journey starts again, we need good recruitment and a coach who can foster that environment, we need tactical diligence to allow us to stay in the PL should we return. We can't go straight from here to how we played under Rodgers, we have to follow the steps  

Absolutely. We're like a footballer who has done their ACL and has to build back up again rather than just go straight back into 90 minutes as soon as they can weight bear.

 

Build the foundations, get the team spirit again, get promoted (very possible if the appointment and recruitment are good given the quality of the Championship,) stay up by getting in the right characters to build on the team spirit and then go from there. It shouldn't be an abstract model because we've done it!

[Finn Claw II]

Watched the 1997 league cup semi final vs. Wimbledon highlights after the game to cheer me up.

 

The mentality of the team and the manager was so so different.  Both newly promoted but the comparison stops there.

[Bourbon Fox]

6 minutes ago, LVFox said:

Rodgers was obviously the height of our sustained success (in terms of consistent finishes, Europe etc)

 

But it doesn't happen without Pearson bringing the right characters in to give him an experienced base, Ranieri developing a rapid counter attacking side to scare any team we played and then Puel putting together a squad of quality that could then play the type of football needed for a top 6 team.

 

My point being is that the journey starts again, we need good recruitment and a coach who can foster that environment, we need tactical diligence to allow us to stay in the PL should we return. We can't go straight from here to how we played under Rodgers, we have to follow the steps  

Ranieri and Rodgers both benefited from the work Pearson did behind the scenes. Policies, culture, models, personnel. The philosophy, to use a wanky term.

 

Since he left Ranieri began to dismantle it, and Rodgers really took a sledgehammer to it. The board empowered Rodgers and allowed him to rip the guts of the club out.

 

There's nobody left of that era now, and we're faced with a total vacuum. 

 

 

[kingfox]

33 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I think it's a myth you need a manager to have a specific personality and it's an even bigger myth that Nigel Pearson and Sean Dyche are alike. 

 

In fact, I'd say that's really offensive to Nige and is exactly the sort of prejudice he's had levelled at him most of his career. He's got a military haircut and he's an English former centre back with no dress sense so everyone just assumes he's a thug. There's this perception of him that he's this stone age knuckle dragger.

 

He's an extremely intelligent, progressive, articulate guy that's calmly spoken and pretty thoughtful. He significantly modernised the club during his time here. 

 

The guy likes reading and walking in the mountains, he's not exactly the quintessential British Lad is he. 

 

It's not about his personality, it's about the personality of the players he targeted to sign. It's about the personality traits he looked for and valued in others. 

 

Pearson and Walsh actively targeted leaders, hard workers, grafters. They cleansed the squad of personalities they thought didn't fit and then they went about only signing players that did. They cultivated a culture here of work rate, determination and togetherness over anything else. 

 

You don't need to be Sean Dyche to do that. In fact, I'd argue you don't even need to be the head coach to do that. I'd previously rolled my eyes at people suggesting they'd love Nigel back as a DOF but he'd actually do a pretty good job in that role because his short comings probably are his tactical approach and his handling of the match day. But actually building the club and the squad along with someone like Walsh as head of recruitment would probably be something he'd be great at. 

 

TLDR: The squad needs a huge overhaul in personality but that doesn't mean you need a Dyche or a Warnock to do it, just someone that understands building a culture and signing people with the right attitude. 

 

In terms of personality traits, what’s the correct answer then Finners? 
 

Do we really want to fall into that cycle again of having an unmotivated dullard as our manager again, we’ve gone through plenty of them in my lifetime especially. The type of managers you just know are not the right fit for Leicester City. 
 

The best managers we’ve had in my lifetime, O’Neill, Pearson, Ranieri. They all had personality, charisma and in O’Neill and Pearson’s cases especially you knew they could be no nonsense. 
 

As you’ve said yourself, when Pearson came in, he cleansed the squad, signed the right personalities and gave us a certain culture. That’s where his no nonsense approach came into play though, he had a certain approach to his management and thinking and it worked a treat. 
 

We need a manager who will bring that certain style of approach again. That is going to be the most important thing for us next season. 

 

Some fans just get the assumption that Sean Dyche is in the right mould to do that. There’s certain managers out there who you just know wouldn’t bring the right culture. 
 

We’re in the shit mate, where a shift in culture is badly needed, who’s in the right mould to do it though? 

[Finnegan]

7 minutes ago, kingfox said:

In terms of personality traits, what’s the correct answer then Finners? 
 

Do we really want to fall into that cycle again of having an unmotivated dullard as our manager again, we’ve gone through plenty of them in my lifetime especially. The type of managers you just know are not the right fit for Leicester City. 
 

The best managers we’ve had in my lifetime, O’Neill, Pearson, Ranieri. They all had personality, charisma and in O’Neill and Pearson’s cases especially you knew they could be no nonsense. 
 

As you’ve said yourself, when Pearson came in, he cleansed the squad, signed the right personalities and gave us a certain culture. That’s where his no nonsense approach came into play though, he had a certain approach to his management and thinking and it worked a treat. 
 

We need a manager who will bring that certain style of approach again. That is going to be the most important thing for us next season. 

 

Some fans just get the assumption that Sean Dyche is in the right mould to do that. There’s certain managers out there who you just know wouldn’t bring the right culture. 
 

We’re in the shit mate, where a shift in culture is badly needed, who’s in the right mould to do it though? 

 

My point is just that anybody can value hard work, commitment, a never say die attitude and a culture of teamwork. I'm not a world class football manager but I personally like all of those things AND exciting attacking football. 

 

There'll be coaches out there with a similar outlook. 

 

I'm just saying we don't need a footballing dinosaur to rebuild the squad we just need someone that understands culture and mentality, I just used the example Thomas Frank but he's not going to be alone is he. 

 

Too often people equate hard work and graft ONLY with managers like Dyche and Moyes like somehow good football and good personalities are mutually exclusive. It's silly. 

 

Edited 8 April by Finnegan

[RoboFox]

9 minutes ago, kingfox said:

We’re in the shit mate, where a shift in culture is badly needed, who’s in the right mould to do it though? 

Whoever it is, they won't be on the same planet - let alone the radar - of our esteemed leaders. 

 

Aiyawatt will go down the tried and tested route of someone he deems to have a nice aura or who he played as on FIFA 2006. 

 

[Iwebema]

27 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Brentford is a really good point actually. 

 

Nobody would describe Thomas Frank as being "Sean Dyche like" would they? He's another one that's a thoughtful, well spoken academic. He's a student of sports science and sports psychology with no significant playing career. 

 

Tactically, his teams play some excellent football that can be great to watch and he's a long way from any kind of football dinosaur. 

 

But he's championed a culture he describes as "No Dickheads" which he credits to the All Blacks as being the defining feature of their recruitment. 

 

Yes, they are data driven, yes they recruit carefully using analytics to make sure a player fits the role they want to fill technically. 

 

But they also do a significant amount of work determining a player's personality and you don't get signed at Brentford if you don't fit the culture and a big part of that culture is working hard for the team and not having an ego. 

 

We desperately need to get that back because we lost it for years. Puel is hugely, hugely over rated by a section of revisionists on here but, credit where it's due, he did seem to understand this. 

 

Rodgers was the complete opposite. Actively went out and targeted people that were broken or wayward or didn't fit in elsewhere because he thought it would get you technically gifted players for cheap and now we're paying the price. 

 

It's all about the way you operate and the standards you set.

 

If at the top it's acceptable to just do the bare minimum and half arse everything it leaks into every aspect of the club and we have seen that play out over the last few years. There is a huge culture of "yeah that's good enough" going on with us at the moment...

 

Weird analogy but my daughter wrote a birthday card for someone the other day and crossed out the receipents name 5 times before getting it right...I said to her you can't send that it's a mess and her response was "but I wrote the card? It's done?" You can see where I'm going with this....ha

 

And I think this is where my bigger worry lies, we are talking about the next manager essentially needing to be the one who fixes everything and change how we operate as a football club, which arguably shouldn't be their main role, we have so much wrong and such little accountability it's hard to see any manager coming in and having the ability to make the changes we need they will be adopting a bit of a shit show.

 

That said if Pearson can do it, it means it can be done, I think Enzo was on the way to doing it, regardless of what you think about his football, he was demanding more.

 

Imo we need an up and coming passionate football obsessive manager, it's going to take one hell of a personality to turn this all around.

What we can't have is a meek, manage by numbers yes man who is just greatful to be employed.....that is assuming we don't make any changes to the club structure.

 

 

[SafewayFox]

47 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Brentford is a really good point actually. 

 

Nobody would describe Thomas Frank as being "Sean Dyche like" would they? He's another one that's a thoughtful, well spoken academic. He's a student of sports science and sports psychology with no significant playing career. 

 

Tactically, his teams play some excellent football that can be great to watch and he's a long way from any kind of football dinosaur. 

 

But he's championed a culture he describes as "No Dickheads" which he credits to the All Blacks as being the defining feature of their recruitment. 

 

Yes, they are data driven, yes they recruit carefully using analytics to make sure a player fits the role they want to fill technically. 

 

But they also do a significant amount of work determining a player's personality and you don't get signed at Brentford if you don't fit the culture and a big part of that culture is working hard for the team and not having an ego. 

 

We desperately need to get that back because we lost it for years. Puel is hugely, hugely over rated by a section of revisionists on here but, credit where it's due, he did seem to understand this. 

 

Rodgers was the complete opposite. Actively went out and targeted people that were broken or wayward or didn't fit in elsewhere because he thought it would get you technically gifted players for cheap and now we're paying the price. 

 

I was going to comment about Frank’s “No dickheads” ethos is probably as impressive as their approach to data.

 

Lots of clubs can have stats and data people at their club but a club the size of Brentford and their now regular status as a PL club highlights where we went wrong.

 

I know that we had success beyond our wildest expectations but the board still thinking that we’re some top 8 club sums up their foolishness.

[Guy]

Crumbs, after the abject performance (no.14) last night v Toon Army, the amount of empty seats around the stadium and with the only fans being the Newcastle ones who you could hear then how Ruud is still here is astounding. After yesterday then we should have followed Southampton's lead  but the club obviously have no plan whatsoever that I can see in this regard so Ruud is obviously here until the end of the season now an could be so beyoind that too - shudders!  

[Bilo]

2 minutes ago, Guy said:

Crumbs, after the abject performance (no.14) last night v Toon Army, the amount of empty seats around the stadium and with the only fans being the Newcastle ones who you could hear then how Ruud is still here is astounding. After yesterday then we should have followed Southampton's lead  but the club obviously have no plan whatsoever that I can see in this regard so Ruud is obviously here until the end of the season now an could be so beyoind that too - shudders!  

Not a chance he's here in August. 

[Gamble92]

Bloke from Telegraph in Amsterdam right now on Talksport. ****in hell. Seemed to know Ruud on a personal level. 

 

"He was willing to lead Leicester in the Championship a few weeks ago but things have changed"

 

"I'm told even his manager (Jon Rudkin) ISNT IN THE LOOP and is just waiting for a thumb up or thumb down"

 

Seriously wtf have we become as a club. Top has destroyed us. 

[Muzzy_no7]

Do we think the board have written it into Ruuds contract that once relegation is confirmed he and his plonker of a GK coach go without payment? 

[Guy]

1 minute ago, Bilo said:

Not a chance he's here in August. 

It would be nuts to suggest he is really but the fact that he is still here now after last night (which I thought would be the tipping point), still suggests anything is possible. All the same I hope you're right obviously. The smart sweaters and long waistcoats effect of the autumn time has long since worn off with Ruud!

[kingfox]

7 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

My point is just that anybody can value hard work, commitment, a never say die attitude and a culture of teamwork. I'm not a world class football manager but I personally like all of those things AND exciting attacking football. 

 

There'll be coaches out there with a similar outlook. 

 

I'm just saying we don't feed a footballing dinosaur to rebuild the squad we just need someone that understands culture and mentality, I just used the example Thomas Frank but he's not going to be alone is he. 

 

Too often people equate hard work and graft ONLY with managers like Dyche and Moyes like somehow good football and foot personalities are mutually exclusive. It's silly. 

 

And I gave my reasons why we shouldn’t give a footballing dinosaur the Leicester job. Dyche has certain characteristics that a chunk of Leicester fans probably wouldn’t mind, but like you I want exciting attacking football, and I gave my reasons why we shouldn’t go near him. 
 

But Thomas Frank is a great example of the type of personality we need right now, he has certain characteristics especially when it comes to managerial style that we are in desperate need for. 
 

There’s numerous younger managers out there who bring hard work and graft to their philosophy. I’m not in the camp where managers such as Dyche and Moyes are the only one’s who can bring such traits.

 

Finding a manager who fits that bill though is hard to come by. As you said to me the other day, football is heavily system oriented nowadays, where more managers care more about that side of the game, rather than building the right culture. 

[Bilo]

8 minutes ago, Guy said:

It would be nuts to suggest he is really but the fact that he is still here now after last night (which I thought would be the tipping point), still suggests anything is possible. All the same I hope you're right obviously. The smart sweaters and long waistcoats effect of the autumn time has long since worn off with Ruud!

Quite honestly, after last night's interview, I wouldn't be surprised to see a caretaker at the Amex this weekend. 

[Finnegan]

11 minutes ago, kingfox said:

And I gave my reasons why we shouldn’t give a footballing dinosaur the Leicester job. Dyche has certain characteristics that a chunk of Leicester fans probably wouldn’t mind, but like you I want exciting attacking football, and I gave my reasons why we shouldn’t go near him. 
 

But Thomas Frank is a great example of the type of personality we need right now, he has certain characteristics especially when it comes to managerial style that we are in desperate need for. 
 

There’s numerous younger managers out there who bring hard work and graft to their philosophy. I’m not in the camp where managers such as Dyche and Moyes are the only one’s who can bring such traits.

 

Finding a manager who fits that bill though is hard to come by. As you said to me the other day, football is heavily system oriented nowadays, where more managers care more about that side of the game, rather than building the right culture. 

 

This is exactly why our operating model doesn't work. 

 

A modern head coach has enough on his plate being able to come up with a tactical plan and drill it, coach it in to the players. They don't want or need the distraction of being responsible for also building a squad. We don't want to be looking for any "manager", we want to be looking separately for a head coach and a sporting director / director of football. 

 

It's not just a problem of over burdening one person or being over reliant on one person it's also about the fact we're increasingly chasing unicorns. 

 

If you want someone to be brilliant at recruitment, brilliant at squad management, brilliant at tactics, brilliant at coaching, that person doesn't exist anymore. Arguably, it never did, even greats like SAF didn't actually do all that, they knew how to delegate. 

 

If we keep insisting on not having a proper director of football then every time we recruit we're going to find it harder and harder to find the right person because the current generation coming through aren't "managers" at all, they are ALL head coaches and they all really expect a squad to be there readily assembled for them. Enzo being the brilliant example. They just don't have the skill set we're looking for because we're stuck in the past. It'll get harder and harder every year. 

 

Edited 8 April by Finnegan

[Big Dave]

Wonder if there is a relegation clause in his contract like the Southampton manager had? If that is the case, it may be why he hasn’t gone yet (and having to wait until we are officially relegated).

[whitlock]

Saw an interview with Craig Bellamy - not trying to say he is a good manager or anything, but..

 

He has set some non-negotionables and it was things like, no shirt swapping, its our badge we've worked hard for. Club badge doesn't touch the floor, all kit is handed to the kit man, dinner at round tables, no phones etc.

 

Quite liked those sort of principles he is embedding, right now it seems we have absolutely nothing instilled at all.

 

 

[filbertway]

1 hour ago, Finnegan said:

 

Brentford is a really good point actually. 

 

Nobody would describe Thomas Frank as being "Sean Dyche like" would they? He's another one that's a thoughtful, well spoken academic. He's a student of sports science and sports psychology with no significant playing career. 

 

Tactically, his teams play some excellent football that can be great to watch and he's a long way from any kind of football dinosaur. 

 

But he's championed a culture he describes as "No Dickheads" which he credits to the All Blacks as being the defining feature of their recruitment. 

 

Yes, they are data driven, yes they recruit carefully using analytics to make sure a player fits the role they want to fill technically. 

 

But they also do a significant amount of work determining a player's personality and you don't get signed at Brentford if you don't fit the culture and a big part of that culture is working hard for the team and not having an ego. 

 

We desperately need to get that back because we lost it for years. Puel is hugely, hugely over rated by a section of revisionists on here but, credit where it's due, he did seem to understand this. 

 

Rodgers was the complete opposite. Actively went out and targeted people that were broken or wayward or didn't fit in elsewhere because he thought it would get you technically gifted players for cheap and now we're paying the price. 

 

Same as Brighton, when Ashworth was there he was on training ground guru I believe. He said that the data was purely used to identify players. The real work then if not only scouting the players, but getting references and having an understanding of the personality of the player.

Basically everything we did when Walsh and Pearson were here. 

 

The only difference is, that's their club culture, whereas for us, it was just our current manager's culture.

[Heskey2011]

40 minutes ago, RoboFox said:

Whoever it is, they won't be on the same planet - let alone the radar - of our esteemed leaders. 

 

Aiyawatt will go down the tried and tested route of someone he deems to have a nice aura or who he played as on FIFA 2006. 

 

Like Enzo?