General News

[blabyboy]

1 hour ago, Lionator said:

That’s also true but that’s the risk. Not that the Russians wouldn’t do the same. It’s just you can see Trump using it is as some kind of pretext to declare Ukraine doesn’t want peace. 

Well if he does, he'll need to explain why Russia sent almost double the amount of drones at the same time and how that's irrelevant.

[st albans fox]

26 minutes ago, blabyboy said:

Well if he does, he'll need to explain why Russia sent almost double the amount of drones at the same time and how that's irrelevant.

 Not how the news is framed this morning though 

if you’d read the bbc website you’d hardly have noticed ref a Russian drone attack last night. 
 

the take away this morning is that Ukraine attacked Moscow and that gives an administration who will make stuff up if they need to actual photographs and videos to use. 
 

Of course we have no idea if this was done with American approval - it’s possible as part of a wider game. 

Edited 11 March by st albans fox

[Sampson]

2 hours ago, Lionator said:

That’s also true but that’s the risk. Not that the Russians wouldn’t do the same. It’s just you can see Trump using it is as some kind of pretext to declare Ukraine doesn’t want peace. 

Trump already does this. You really think they should just sit there while Russia drone attacks and not retaliate, because it might make Trump do what he’s already doing anyway? 
 

No offense, as I think you often make good points, but this one just doesn't really make sense to me. Ukraine shouldn't just sit there and take it.

Edited 11 March by Sampson

[Lionator]

32 minutes ago, Sampson said:

Trump already does this. You really think they should just sit there while Russia drone attacks and not retaliate, because it might make Trump do what he’s already doing anyway? 
 

No offense, as I think you often make good points, but this one just doesn't really make sense to me. Ukraine shouldn't just sit there and take it.

This is the power dynamic though isn’t it and the whole downside of what’s going on. Ukraine are well within their rights to fight back like that but they have to realise they’re dealing with brazen cry baby’s. It’s just crap all round (obviously). 

[Dunge]

42 minutes ago, Sampson said:

Trump already does this. You really think they should just sit there while Russia drone attacks and not retaliate, because it might make Trump do what he’s already doing anyway? 
 

No offense, as I think you often make good points, but this one just doesn't really make sense to me. Ukraine shouldn't just sit there and take it.

I understand this but it depends what Ukraine’s strategy is. There’s been talk that they’ve been discussing negotiating tactics with the UK, and that they were going to go with a plan of being more visibly on-board with America, trying to make Russia appear more the ones who are a blocker to peace. If that was to be their strategy then this is questionable timing.

[Jon the Hat]

2 hours ago, ealingfox said:

 

What's their plan then? I don't agree that it looks like they 'certainly have one'.

It's not clear to be honest, but I think to assume they are making it up as they go along would be foolish.

 

A lot of people think they want to bring Russia back to the table on trade and are happy to give up Ukraine to do so.  The Trump mind I think sees Russia of old and finds the argument they have the right to a sphere of influence compelling.  Its an awful about face.  He also (rightly) thinks Europe have been sponging for years and are quite capable of handling Russia on their own. 

 

He seems determined not to allow China to become the world's great superpower.  He is pushing hard to fight for critical minerals, to bring production of tech, semiconductors etc. to the US or safe allies.  Once Taiwan is no longer essential to the US supply chain he they will probably let China take it, as long as they stay in their own backyard.  He is going to fight Chinese influence in Africa again for critical minerals.  He would like to be able to massively reduce Dolars flowing to China, about 30 years too late.

 

Whether he is capable of pulling any of it off remains to be seen, but I think for example the commentary suggesting he has screwed up the Russia Ukraine negotiations because he gave up leverage before talks even started assumes he gives a single damn about Ukraine territory or demands.  He doesn't.  He has a completely different lens to everyone else.  Its sort of fascinating in an awful oh-my-god-the-world-is-changing-utterly-in-front-of-our-very-eyes kind of way.

 

On another note, it seems to be dawning on Australia that they are never going to get any Submarines from the AUKUS deal, so expect the next government to rip up that deal and go crawling back to the French to buy their subs. Hopefully the rest of the savings go on building the capability to manufacture missiles and drones.  That is how you protect Australia.  Lots of near-shore submarines and a huge arsenal or missiles and anti-ship drones.

Edited 11 March by Jon the Hat

[Sampson]

When I was growing up, I was always told that the reason democracy is better and we have freedom is that we have the freedom to protest against things we consider injustices and vote our governments we don’t like. Freedom to protest was drilled into me as one of the absolute fundamentals of democracy.
 

Trump trying to deport a legal, permanent resident married to an American citizen for protesting makes me extremely uncomfortable. Not just uncomfortable because I feel for individual or others in similar situation, but it’s this continuation of using anti-immigrant rhetoric as a convenient excuse to gain more power for the president and to erode away the checks and balances of power that hold up democracy. It feels like the first step - make anti-protest laws against immigrants because most voters don’t care about them only to build in legal creep for prison time for anyone, who protests. Just feels like “first they came for the communists…” stuff.

[Tommy G]

Away from American politics for the 56,768th time, I feel so sorry for this guy and his surviving daughter 

 

https://news.sky.com/story/john-hunts-message-to-killer-kyle-clifford-as-man-who-murdered-bbc-commentators-family-is-sentenced-13326310

[bovril]

3 minutes ago, Tommy G said:

Away from American politics for the 56,768th time, I feel so sorry for this guy and his surviving daughter 

 

https://news.sky.com/story/john-hunts-message-to-killer-kyle-clifford-as-man-who-murdered-bbc-commentators-family-is-sentenced-13326310

Difficult sometimes to come to terms with the violence that exists in the world

[leicsmac]

13 minutes ago, Tommy G said:

Away from American politics for the 56,768th time, I feel so sorry for this guy and his surviving daughter 

 

https://news.sky.com/story/john-hunts-message-to-killer-kyle-clifford-as-man-who-murdered-bbc-commentators-family-is-sentenced-13326310

It is really unfortunate that the actions of Convict#47 are so bombastic and consequential that they're dominating the discussion, but what can you do?

 

On the topic, powerful and accurate from Mr Hunt there. I doubt there's many that fit the description of a sociopath as well as Clifford does.

[st albans fox]

3 hours ago, Sampson said:

When I was growing up, I was always told that the reason democracy is better and we have freedom is that we have the freedom to protest against things we consider injustices and vote our governments we don’t like. Freedom to protest was drilled into me as one of the absolute fundamentals of democracy.
 

Trump trying to deport a legal, permanent resident married to an American citizen for protesting makes me extremely uncomfortable. Not just uncomfortable because I feel for individual or others in similar situation, but it’s this continuation of using anti-immigrant rhetoric as a convenient excuse to gain more power for the president and to erode away the checks and balances of power that hold up democracy. It feels like the first step - make anti-protest laws against immigrants because most voters don’t care about them only to build in legal creep for prison time for anyone, who protests. Just feels like “first they came for the communists…” stuff.

This case is now subject to court procedures - if the person has acted outside of the law or the conditions of his green card then I’m sure he will be deported. Otherwise the law will prevent him being deported.  Maybe it will go all the way to the Supreme Court if there is a grey area. That would be an interesting vote. 
 

 

[st albans fox]

2 hours ago, Tommy G said:

Away from American politics for the 56,768th time, I feel so sorry for this guy and his surviving daughter 

 

https://news.sky.com/story/john-hunts-message-to-killer-kyle-clifford-as-man-who-murdered-bbc-commentators-family-is-sentenced-13326310

hopefully being in a wheelchair means Clifford will be guaranteed to have his face smashed in most days or be kept in solitary for his safety.  

 

another case where it’s tough to justify the costs of keeping this scumbag locked up for the next fifty+ years 

 

my remote island idea would work well here …………

[leicsmac]

27 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

This case is now subject to court procedures - if the person has acted outside of the law or the conditions of his green card then I’m sure he will be deported. Otherwise the law will prevent him being deported.  Maybe it will go all the way to the Supreme Court if there is a grey area. That would be an interesting vote. 
 

 

I do admire your faith in the system of checks and balances and that they would stop - or indeed are stopping - Trump or his supporters in much of a meaningful fashion at all.

 

He has numerous loyalists within the legal system for exactly this purpose.

[st albans fox]

7 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

I do admire your faith in the system of checks and balances and that they would stop - or indeed are stopping - Trump or his supporters in much of a meaningful fashion at all.

 

He has numerous loyalists within the legal system for exactly this purpose.

Well last week the SC voted to pay the USAID contracts that hadn’t yet been settled (would have been a disgrace to have made any other judgement) against the wishes of the administration so they don't always just do as they’re told ( I think 2 conservative judges went against the govt) 

[leicsmac]

1 minute ago, st albans fox said:

Well last week the SC voted to pay the USAID contracts that hadn’t yet been settled (would have been a disgrace to have made any other judgement) against the wishes of the administration so they don't always just do as they’re told ( I think 2 conservative judges went against the govt) 

You're right - it isn't always, but it is, and will be, often enough to cause issues and to let him mostly exercise his will over the legal system as well as everywhere else. That has been the plan all along, after all.

[st albans fox]

1 minute ago, leicsmac said:

You're right - it isn't always, but it is, and will be, often enough to cause issues and to let him mostly exercise his will over the legal system as well as everywhere else. That has been the plan all along, after all.

Yes

interested to see what happens on this one 

there surely has to be legal procedure - what about the ‘constitoooshun’ ? 

[Tommy G]

54 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

hopefully being in a wheelchair means Clifford will be guaranteed to have his face smashed in most days or be kept in solitary for his safety.  

 

another case where it’s tough to justify the costs of keeping this scumbag locked up for the next fifty+ years 

 

my remote island idea would work well here …………

What I find infuriating is the fact he chose not to appear in court. Why cant we force people? Strap him to a chair in cuffs and make him sit through the victim statements. 

[leicsmac]

35 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Yes

interested to see what happens on this one 

there surely has to be legal procedure - what about the ‘constitoooshun’ ? 

Unfortunately, since the start of his second term, the word "surely" has found itself stretched rather considerably.

 

I hope I'm wrong, but I fear the legal and constitutional systems won't offer enough of a barrier to someone like him wanting to do as they wish and knowing the levers to pull on how.

 

14 minutes ago, Tommy G said:

What I find infuriating is the fact he chose not to appear in court. Why cant we force people? Strap him to a chair in cuffs and make him sit through the victim statements. 

I remember this coming up on here re the Lucy Letby case(?) too.

 

In principle I'm all for it, but in practice I'm not sure how you really compel a person to go somewhere they don't want to go short of beating them half to death or drugging them, and I'm not sure the state should have that power except in the most urgent cases of life threatening self defence.

[Tommy G]

Just now, leicsmac said:

Unfortunately, since the start of his second term, the word "surely" has found itself stretched rather considerably.

 

I hope I'm wrong, but I fear the legal and constitutional systems won't offer enough of a barrier to someone like him wanting to do as they wish and knowing the levers to pull on how.

 

I remember this coming up on here re the Lucy Letby case(?) too.

 

In principle I'm all for it, but in practice I'm not sure how you really compel a person to go somewhere they don't want to go short of beating them half to death or drugging them, and I'm not sure the state should have that power except in the most urgent cases of life threatening self defence.

Sounds appropriate for someone who has committed a triple murder don't you think. 

 

 

[Sampson]

1 hour ago, st albans fox said:

This case is now subject to court procedures - if the person has acted outside of the law or the conditions of his green card then I’m sure he will be deported. Otherwise the law will prevent him being deported.  Maybe it will go all the way to the Supreme Court if there is a grey area. That would be an interesting vote. 
 

 

That kind of misses the point for me and is also a bit of a cop out. The point is that if you can even create a legal reason to deport a legal resident living  married to an American because of protesting then that’s a pretty scary precedent to have and makes me feel uncomfortable. The right to protest should be one of the absolute pillars of democracy.

[st albans fox]

10 minutes ago, Sampson said:

That kind of misses the point for me and is also a bit of a cop out. The point is that if you can even create a legal reason to deport a legal resident living  married to an American because of protesting then that’s a pretty scary precedent to have and makes me feel uncomfortable. The right to protest should be one of the absolute pillars of democracy.

100%

I think if the person has only protested peacefully then they’ll struggle to deport him 

we’ll see what evidence ICE present to the court.  Of course, as Mac points out, a lack of evidence may not save him but at least we’ll see what the case against him actually is.  For now, we see on social media what interested parties want us to see. 

[leicsmac]

14 minutes ago, Tommy G said:

Sounds appropriate for someone who has committed a triple murder don't you think. 

 

 

Yeah, but there's a reason states that call themselves civilised can't enact such things in the cause of punishment or sentencing anymore - because part of that pretence of civilisation is being civil even to the uncivilised.

 

Again, don't get me wrong, I wouldn't get in anyone's way in this particular case, but it would rather put the lie to the idea the UK treats its criminals much better than places it sometimes looks down its nose at.

[leicsmac]

16 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

100%

I think if the person has only protested peacefully then they’ll struggle to deport him 

we’ll see what evidence ICE present to the court.  Of course, as Mac points out, a lack of evidence may not save him but at least we’ll see what the case against him actually is.  For now, we see on social media what interested parties want us to see. 

I think it is a mistake to assume that evidence and what the case actually is really matters here.

[leicsmac]

The casual contempt the current US administration has towards a neighbouring nation that's been nothing but friendly to it is likewise utterly contemptuous.

 

I hope Carney is tough enough to tell them to fvck off in every diplomatic way possible.

[Dahnsouff]

Trump says tariffs go up to 50% on Aluminium and Steel from evil Canada, but has not filled out the necessary paperwork meaning it cannot happen.