General News Thread

[DJW1]

59 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Reform are not going to win the next election.  They have peaked already, and people will vote tactically to keep them out.  They will get maybe 50-60 seats, but comfortably leave the option for a coalition government to form.  The question is whether that coalition is Labour Liberal or Conservative Reform.  Nigel deputy PM worst case imo.  It is still possible imo for Labour or Conservatives to get their shit together enough to win.

I don´t see reform winning any seats in London (inner city), Leicester, Bradford, Birmingham, Scotland, NI or university towns (Cambridge, Oxford, Canterbury, Exeter etc.). As you say, a coalition is a likely outcome.

[Spudulike]

15 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

See this is the part I just can't agree with. 

 

Politics and music have gone hand in hand pretty much for eternity. 

 

Even just looking at what we'd probably think of as contemporary music, starting around the 60s or so you've got the entire counter culture movement that's steeped in political feeling. Not just in the music and lyrics themselves but in the words and the actions of the performers both on stage and off. 

 

For me as someone that's spent most of my life listening to rock, punk and metal I'd probably find it harder to list apolitical bands than political ones and for pretty much my whole life I've been watching artists go on stage and use the platform to speak out. 

 

Edit: just because I've seen @Samilktray react to this post, it's not exclusive to rock either. Look at the infancy of hip hop, from Gil Scott-Heron through to the early years of NWA et all, there's always been a heavy political current through hip hop. 

 

I went on those 'Rock against racism' marches in the late 70's and wore my 'Pogo on a Nazi' badge with pride. Might be why I'm disturbed by the current wave of activism being stoked by some with a platform who's motives may not be genuine. 

[Tommy G]

6 minutes ago, DJW1 said:

The definitions in my earlier comment were derived from a study of UK voters carried out several years ago. Another study states that 30% of British people admit to being racist.

 

Everyone is naturally bigoted. It derives from a fear/mistrust of people who are different from yourself (it´s hardwired into all of us, genetically). Most people try to fight against it.

 

I think it´s bit more complicated. For example, an Afghan family arriving in the UK with no money. skills or English would be rejected by most people. An Afghan family who were well educated, spoke perfect English and had money in the bank to start a business would receive the red carpet treatment. So, there is economic bigotry too.

There is a video knocking about at a immigration rally about open boarders, when a guy asks if people are in support of immigration - they say yes, then he offers a form to complete to sign up to house them, they all immediately recoil and think of a million reasons why they can't. 

 

 

[Finnegan]

1 hour ago, Jon the Hat said:

Reform are not going to win the next election.

 

I really wish I shared your confidence. 

 

[Spudulike]

2 minutes ago, Tommy G said:

There is a video knocking about at a immigration rally about open boarders, when a guy asks if people are in support of immigration - they say yes, then he offers a form to complete to sign up to house them, they all immediately recoil and think of a million reasons why they can't. 

 

 

Which is why Reform have hatched the policy for building immigration detention centres in Green voting constituences. The meltdown, they claim, has exposed this 'refugees welcome but not in my back yard'.

[Finnegan]

16 minutes ago, Tommy G said:

There is a video knocking about at a immigration rally about open boarders, when a guy asks if people are in support of immigration - they say yes, then he offers a form to complete to sign up to house them, they all immediately recoil and think of a million reasons why they can't. 

 

 

 

I really, really, really, really hate these videos and the people that think they're any kind of clever gotcha. 

 

Just ****ing moronic. 

 

You don't want a stranger coming to live actually in your house so you must be some sort of hypocrite. Jesus ****ing christ. 

 

For the record, if I did have to have a stranger come live in my house I'd much rather it be a migrant from almost any country than a Reform voter. 

 

Edited 13 May by Finnegan

[leicsmac]

5 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I really, really, really, really hate these videos and the people that think they're any kind of clever gotcha. 

 

Just ****ing moronic. 

 

You don't want a stranger coming to live actually in your house so you must be some sort of hypocrite. Jesus ****ing christ. 

 

For the record, if I did have to have a stranger come live in my house I'd much rather it be a migrant from almost any country than a white British chav. 

 

And it's the overall Joker-in-the-Dark- Knight message, too. 

 

"I'm going to prove that deep down everyone is as tribal and bigoted as I am, that way I'm entirely justified in my bigotry and my belief that a better world isn't possible, so let's just accept the tribal status quo with all the oppression, ethnic cleansing, death and suffering as rote, OK?"

Edited 13 May by leicsmac

[Tommy G]

15 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I really, really, really, really hate these videos and the people that think they're any kind of clever gotcha. 

 

Just ****ing moronic. 

 

You don't want a stranger coming to live actually in your house so you must be some sort of hypocrite. Jesus ****ing christ. 

 

For the record, if I did have to have a stranger come live in my house I'd much rather it be a migrant from almost any country than a Reform voter. 

 

I agree I just thought it was funny. I don't think anyone would, but they wouldn't want to say otherwise as you could easily be labelled as something you aren't quite quickly. 

[Foxdiamond]

53 minutes ago, DJW1 said:

The definitions in my earlier comment were derived from a study of UK voters carried out several years ago. Another study states that 30% of British people admit to being racist.

 

Everyone is naturally bigoted. It derives from a fear/mistrust of people who are different from yourself (it´s hardwired into all of us, genetically). Most people try to fight against it.

 

I think it´s bit more complicated. For example, an Afghan family arriving in the UK with no money. skills or English would be rejected by most people. An Afghan family who were well educated, spoke perfect English and had money in the bank to start a business would receive the red carpet treatment. So, there is economic bigotry too.

So presumably people coming here have a degree of bigotry or does that disappear if having/choosing to leave their original homeland.

[MPH]

2 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

Reform are not going to win the next election.  They have peaked already, and people will vote tactically to keep them out.  They will get maybe 50-60 seats, but comfortably leave the option for a coalition government to form.  The question is whether that coalition is Labour Liberal or Conservative Reform.  Nigel deputy PM worst case imo.  It is still possible imo for Labour or Conservatives to get their shit together enough to win.

 

this is why I was saying they absolutely have to drop starmer like a hot potato. Make the change now.

[kenny]

Badenoch had her weetabix today.

[CornwallFox]

1 hour ago, Tommy G said:

There is a video knocking about at a immigration rally about open boarders, when a guy asks if people are in support of immigration - they say yes, then he offers a form to complete to sign up to house them, they all immediately recoil and think of a million reasons why they can't. 

 

 

This is the weirdest argument. 

I often see anti-immigration people ask this of pro-immigration people. But nobody on the pro side is asking anybody to house anybody themselves. It's just the weirdest attempt at a gotcha moment.

[Finnegan]

13 minutes ago, kenny said:

Badenoch had her weetabix today.

 

I mean, she might be the single least effective party leader of any major party in my lifetime tbh and that includes Liz Truss. She can sit the **** down.

[st albans fox]

11 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I mean, she might be the single least effective party leader of any major party in my lifetime tbh and that includes Liz Truss. She can sit the **** down.

Really ? 
I mean that’s such a low bar 

[kenny]

14 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I mean, she might be the single least effective party leader of any major party in my lifetime tbh and that includes Liz Truss. She can sit the **** down.

I don't think its worth Starmer sitting down after today.

[Lionator]

Excuse the pun but why are immigration issues always so black or white? It’s either that you want every ‘forener’ deported or that you want to open the gates for whole world. Immigration should be functional for the states needs, an asylum system is completely separate. 

We’re just so bad at political debate these days. The general knowledge on why immigration exists is non existent. 

[filthyfox]

47 minutes ago, Lionator said:

Excuse the pun but why are immigration issues always so black or white? It’s either that you want every ‘forener’ deported or that you want to open the gates for whole world. Immigration should be functional for the states needs, an asylum system is completely separate. 

We’re just so bad at political debate these days. The general knowledge on why immigration exists is non existent. 

Seriously...  there HAVE to be some jobs the asylum seekers that have travelled through at least 5 other "safe" countries to get here could do?

 

And i mean FOR FREE while you and i pay for their living and food expenses.

 

Ps- i also do not believe minimum wage (MW) should exist.  Market forces and freedom of choice should decide what an employer pays.  MW is tge way to disaster.

Edited 13 May by filthyfox

[DJW1]

2 hours ago, Foxdiamond said:

So presumably people coming here have a degree of bigotry or does that disappear if having/choosing to leave their original homeland.

There is bigotry and prejudice all around the world. Some of the most vehement anti-immigration views are expressed by people whose families only arrived perhaps 1 generation before.

Likewise, there has always been racial/religious bigotry in Britain. The targets for this have varied over the centuries: Jews, Catholics, French, German, Irish, Afro-Caribbeans, Indians and Pakistanis, Eastern Europeans, Muslims....

[Finnegan]

59 minutes ago, Lionator said:

Excuse the pun but why are immigration issues always so black or white? It’s either that you want every ‘forener’ deported or that you want to open the gates for whole world. Immigration should be functional for the states needs, an asylum system is completely separate. 

We’re just so bad at political debate these days. The general knowledge on why immigration exists is non existent. 

 

Every issue is split black and white these days. People can't hold contrasting thoughts in their head. The internet has been making it worse for years, so has the falling standards of education and journalism in this country and the rise of social media "news." 

 

[Trav Le Bleu]

5 hours ago, Finnegan said:

 

Not specifically talking about you as I've got no idea what you listen to but it does make me laugh how many of the people that trot out phrases like this these days are watching groups like RATM or SOAD or Green Day or some punk band whose lyrics and behavior have always made it clear they are profoundly political in what they do

 

I'd say 90% of the time I hear people being outraged about a band or artist having made a political statement it was a band or artist that are famously and notoriously political like, all the time. 

 

Ain't nobody turning up to a Taylor Swift gig and all of a sudden hearing her yelling from the river to the sea or **** MAGA or death to Putin or something are they. 

 

Also, they're only sick of it if it's contrary to their own political views.

 

You don't get right wingers banging on about Kid Rock, KanYe or Bryan Ferry.

[bovril]

1 hour ago, Lionator said:

Excuse the pun but why are immigration issues always so black or white? It’s either that you want every ‘forener’ deported or that you want to open the gates for whole world. Immigration should be functional for the states needs, an asylum system is completely separate. 

We’re just so bad at political debate these days. The general knowledge on why immigration exists is non existent. 

Doesn't help either that "immigrants" are talked about as a monolith when some immigration flows are more successful than others

[Trav Le Bleu]

3 hours ago, DJW1 said:

Everyone is naturally bigoted

That's what a bigot would say. No offence

I am just kidding.

 

Don't agree mind you. I would say that almost everyone has maybe a weariness of certain types of people, but to say all people dislike everyone who is different (a bigot) is just not true. The world just wouldn't function and the reason for this is...

 

Everyone is different.

 

And the realisation of this is the fundamental basis of tolerance.

 

I've never understood why I should be the same as anyone else and I've never wanted anyone to be like me. I mean... how boring would that be?

 

[Trav Le Bleu]

8 minutes ago, bovril said:

Doesn't help either that "immigrants" are talked about as a monolith when some immigration flows are more successful than others

Immigration = Invasion = bad.

[Trav Le Bleu]

2 hours ago, CornwallFox said:

This is the weirdest argument. 

I often see anti-immigration people ask this of pro-immigration people. But nobody on the pro side is asking anybody to house anybody themselves. It's just the weirdest attempt at a gotcha moment.

I find it weird that if you're not anti-immigration then you're labelled pro-immigration. Can't you just say that, it happens, what about it?

 

I'm going out in a limb here, but are some people not anti-immigration, but are anti-immgrant?

[Jattdogg]

2 hours ago, kenny said:

Badenoch had her weetabix today.

This touched a nerve with me.

 

Canada stopped producing it and now imports something called Weetabix from Kenya and it is rancid.

 

As a almost daily eater of the product for decades, I so sad. Lol

 

Now I have to have some sort of toast with avocado, or regular cheerios.  Barstards.