General News Thread

[leicsmac]

10 minutes ago, Sampson said:

You’re having a separate conversation and one which has personal and emotional anecdotal evidence to you though and trying to try it together with things it shouldn’t be tied to which is exactly why I feel politicians have an impossible job to bring it up in a democracy.
 

I’m talking about you stating your point is one of “balance”, saying “she’s not the only one” “not all old people are a drain on public finances” as a balance on the average costs of an ageing population and the increasing pension, health care and public service costs to the government and the shrinking ratio of tax payers and the shrinking ratio of people fit to do jobs which require taxing physical or mental labour or that require higher levels of concentration  - I just don’t think it’s balance because it’s irrelevant to the discussion, but it’s a common logical fallacy used which make it a political impossibility to discuss.

 

Saying the average older person objectively costs more and it will be unsustainable for the state to fund is not at all saying “all old people are a drain on resources”, so there is nothing there to “balance”.
 

The ageing population, pension system, rising healthcare and public services becoming unsustainable as the average age rises is a profound challenge to all western economies round the world, probably the most profound economic challenge we will face in the 21st century. That isn’t saying “all old people are a drain on politics” and trying to argue emotional individual stories are somehow a balancing argument to that is exactly why no politician wants to discuss such profound changes to our society and way of living, which humanity has never faced before and no one really has much of a clue of what to do with it, with a bargepole 

 

As for the “nothing new” again, I think that’s intellectually dishonest and trying to deflect the conversation because demographic change like this *is* extremely new - humans have never faced a situation like this before where the birth rate has dropped way below 2.0 children per women for decades while increasing life expectancy. We’ve always had societies where a large number of younger and middle aged people support a very small relative number of older people before, we’ve never faced societies where a relatively small number of younger and middle aged people have to support a large number of older people before. 

It is a massive problem, and likely another example that people want to kick down the road because they think it "too big".

 

Which future generations won't likely thank us for. 

[Guest TamworthFoxes]

Have we finally found something we can all agree on? 
We hate the elderly? 
Demo outside the care homes?

Bloody free loaders draining the system.

We saying 80 or 85 for state sanctioned euthanasia?

Starmer can have a new slogan “cull the fogeys”.

One plus point straight off the bat would be plenty of Leicester season tickets available for younger fans.

Peehaps also use the spare beds in care homes to house the immigrants?

[Foxdiamond]

45 minutes ago, TamworthFoxes said:

Have we finally found something we can all agree on? 
We hate the elderly? 
Demo outside the care homes?

Bloody free loaders draining the system.

We saying 80 or 85 for state sanctioned euthanasia?

Starmer can have a new slogan “cull the fogeys”.

One plus point straight off the bat would be plenty of Leicester season tickets available for younger fans.

Peehaps also use the spare beds in care homes to house the immigrants?

 

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

It is a massive problem, and likely another example that people want to kick down the road because they think it "too big".

 

Which future generations won't likely thank us for. 

Currently looking after 2 of the generation that hopefully will be part of the workforce that will support pensioners of the future that are now in their 30s and 40s

[Free Falling Foxes]

56 minutes ago, TamworthFoxes said:

Have we finally found something we can all agree on? 
We hate the elderly? 
Demo outside the care homes?

Bloody free loaders draining the system.

We saying 80 or 85 for state sanctioned euthanasia?

Starmer can have a new slogan “cull the fogeys”.

One plus point straight off the bat would be plenty of Leicester season tickets available for younger fans.

Peehaps also use the spare beds in care homes to house the immigrants?

 Could solve a lot of problems. 

 

As an aside however, re the text I've highlighted: 

If you substituted the word elderly for immigrants, blacks, Asians, refugees, gypsies, women and so on - even in jest, the s4it would really hit the fan.

 

For some reason, older folk are fair game.

[bovril]

6 hours ago, Zear0 said:

Global Britain init 

It's funny because one argument against EU migration was that there would never be enough long term, but somehow Brits memed themselves into thinking there'd be infinity migrants from countries with small populations and low birthrates. 

[Parafox]

6 hours ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

I could live off £9 a week if I was getting free food, housing paid for, tv paid for, mobile data paid for, free visits to places etc. 

 

You shouldn't be able to come here and get all that via our taxes, it's got to stop at some point. Those workers who used to support the country vs. those who take via taxes used to be in favour of those who support, but the numbers are going the other way now, causing the black hole we're currently facing. 

 

Who are the people getting these things, then?

 

You've simply spouted the same rhetoric that Reform want to hear and spread.

 

The only things on your list that they might get free is rent paid (if they qualify for full housing benefits) and food from a foodbank. And believe it or not people in crisis situations can only have 3 foodbank vouchers in a 6 week period by which time it is expected that they will no longer be in crisis. If their situation hasn't improved they can re-apply but it's not just handing out vouchers to all and sundry that rock up at CAB or the council. People are checked to try to ensure they are genuine.

 

WRT foodbanks, I volunteer in 2 locally. The people that come in are genuinely in need. Some are living temporarily in a hotel room having moved to escape domestic violence or in 1 case I know of, modern slavery. All they have is a kettle in their room. All we can give them is pot noodles, tinned rice pud, tinned fruit, tinned cold meat, tinned fish, stuff that doesn't need cooking.

 

And yes, some are immigrants that have left war torn countries and to avoid persecution.

 

It's easy to generalise until you see and hear things for yourself.

 

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, Foxdiamond said:

 

Currently looking after 2 of the generation that hopefully will be part of the workforce that will support pensioners of the future that are now in their 30s and 40s

Hopefully their future will not be as grim as might be predicted now. 

[Foxdiamond]

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

Hopefully their future will not be as grim as might be predicted now. 

Yes I look at them consumed with love for them and not a little worry

[Trav Le Bleu]

3 hours ago, Free Falling Foxes said:

 Could solve a lot of problems. 

 

As an aside however, re the text I've highlighted: 

If you substituted the word elderly for immigrants, blacks, Asians, refugees, gypsies, women and so on - even in jest, the s4it would really hit the fan.

 

For some reason, older folk are fair game.

He said hate the elderly, not ate the elderly.

[Leicester_Loyal]

3 hours ago, Parafox said:

 

Who are the people getting these things, then?

 

You've simply spouted the same rhetoric that Reform want to hear and spread.

 

The only things on your list that they might get free is rent paid (if they qualify for full housing benefits) and food from a foodbank. And believe it or not people in crisis situations can only have 3 foodbank vouchers in a 6 week period by which time it is expected that they will no longer be in crisis. If their situation hasn't improved they can re-apply but it's not just handing out vouchers to all and sundry that rock up at CAB or the council. People are checked to try to ensure they are genuine.

 

WRT foodbanks, I volunteer in 2 locally. The people that come in are genuinely in need. Some are living temporarily in a hotel room having moved to escape domestic violence or in 1 case I know of, modern slavery. All they have is a kettle in their room. All we can give them is pot noodles, tinned rice pud, tinned fruit, tinned cold meat, tinned fish, stuff that doesn't need cooking.

 

And yes, some are immigrants that have left war torn countries and to avoid persecution.

 

It's easy to generalise until you see and hear things for yourself.

 

How are they eating if they aren’t getting free food? How are they paying for accommodation if they aren’t being provided it by the Government? 

 

Illegal immigrants aren’t coming to food banks to be fed, they’re being fed in the hotels they’re being housed in. 
 

You’re talking about people who have come here using legal routes I assume? Which is fair enough. 

This country has got to stop providing freebies for everyone. It can’t carry on without bringing the whole lot down. 

[Jon the Hat]

The working population don't hate the elderly, but I think they do increasingly resent being asked to pay for their health and personal care when said elderly are often sitting on enormous wealth accrued through property bought cheaply, while said working population are paying a fortune to try to get to anything like the property their parent own.  Obviously those who have little need state support.  Those who don't shouldn't get it really. much as I would like to inherit a lot of money from the older generation in my family, I would rather not need it to pay off my mortgage before I retire (and I am lucky to be able to get that mortgage in the first place).

[Trav Le Bleu]

I wonder how many people who hate (yep) immigrants would stay put themselves if they lived in a war-torn country with rubble for a home, no work, dirty water, failing crops and raiding militia groups?

[CornwallFox]

8 hours ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

How are they eating if they aren’t getting free food? How are they paying for accommodation if they aren’t being provided it by the Government? 

 

Illegal immigrants aren’t coming to food banks to be fed, they’re being fed in the hotels they’re being housed in. 
 

You’re talking about people who have come here using legal routes I assume? Which is fair enough. 

This country has got to stop providing freebies for everyone. It can’t carry on without bringing the whole lot down. 

Just let them work as other countries do while claims are being processed. Get them doing useful tasks to help the country and earn their keep. 

[CornwallFox]

2 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

The working population don't hate the elderly, but I think they do increasingly resent being asked to pay for their health and personal care when said elderly are often sitting on enormous wealth accrued through property bought cheaply, while said working population are paying a fortune to try to get to anything like the property their parent own.  Obviously those who have little need state support.  Those who don't shouldn't get it really. much as I would like to inherit a lot of money from the older generation in my family, I would rather not need it to pay off my mortgage before I retire (and I am lucky to be able to get that mortgage in the first place).

I think it isn't helped by the fact that a proportion of the older population cannot bear the idea they didn't have it worse. You routinely see online comments and older people on question time and the like angrily talking about how they had to struggle and how the young want everything. Even a slight glance at historic housing cost data shows it's far harder now, but there's definitely a fair proportion of the elderly that simply resent the idea it's harder now. Obviously this doesn't apply to all older people, but the loudest voices are often those with these sorts of views. 

 

It's also that same older population that has tended, on average, to vote for Tory austerity, endless public sector wage restraint, ever more swingeing benefit cuts (at a time when benefits are mainly supporting poorly paying jobs) etc, while any slight removal of anything from the elderly leads to outrage. We've literally watched youth centres, sure start, public spaces for the young etc all cut, while triple locked pensions have seen double digit rises in some years. 

 

The young really need to start voting. And not for the snake oil salesman. 

 

 

Edited 7 August 2025 by CornwallFox

[leicsmac]

6 minutes ago, CornwallFox said:

I think it isn't helped by the fact that a proportion of the older population cannot bear the idea they didn't have it worse. You routinely see online comments and older people on question time and the like angrily talking about how they had to struggle and how the young want everything. Even a slight glance at historic housing cost data shows it's far harder now, but there's definitely a fair proportion of the elderly that simply resent the idea it's harder now. Obviously this doesn't apply to all older people, but the loudest voices are often those with these sorts of views. 

 

It's also that same older population that has tended, on average, to vote for Tory austerity, endless public sector wage restraint, ever more swingeing benefit cuts (at a time when benefits are mainly supporting poorly paying jobs) etc, while any slight removal of anything from the elderly leads to outrage. We've literally watched youth centres, sure start, public spaces for the young etc all cut, while triple locked pensions have seen double digit rises in some years. 

 

The young really need to start voting. And not for the snake oil salesman. 

 

 

You do see so much of this social Darwinist stuff. "I suffered so you should too, that's what life is about".

 

Whatever happened to being happy that future generations have it better? Surely that's the direction we should be looking in as a species?

[leicsmac]

15 hours ago, BKLFox said:

 

 

15 hours ago, leicsmac said:

 It's the farmers saying that they're struggling because of reduced yields due at least in part to biodiversity loss caused by changing weather patterns and overexploitation, not just me. 

 

But then I guess the first stage of grief/loss is denial. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czerd0zky10o

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c873z413r9lo

 

Only today. It's good to have validation, isn't it?

 

This problem isn't going away, and voting for a party that will do nothing about it won't make it go away either. 

[Lionator]

19 minutes ago, CornwallFox said:

Just let them work as other countries do while claims are being processed. Get them doing useful tasks to help the country and earn their keep. 

But then the same people will complain that they’re coming here and taking all the jobs. You have to realise that you can never win with these people. 

[The Doctor]

29 minutes ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

I wonder how many people who hate (yep) immigrants would stay put themselves if they lived in a war-torn country with rubble for a home, no work, dirty water, failing crops and raiding militia groups?

Tbh I think you're missing a key aspect of this, which is that a chunk of those who hate the concept of refugees and asylum also believe in the just world idea, so if your home is rubble, you have no work, water or crops and are getting raided by militias, you must have done something to deserve it

[The Doctor]

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/lifestyle/jk-rowling-suggests-nigel-farage-is-woke-396373/

 

heartwarming, all the worst people you know are fighting.

[leicsmac]

5 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

Tbh I think you're missing a key aspect of this, which is that a chunk of those who hate the concept of refugees and asylum also believe in the just world idea, so if your home is rubble, you have no work, water or crops and are getting raided by militias, you must have done something to deserve it

Oh yeah, Just World Fallacy. Should have included that too. Incredibly damaging. 

[Tommy Fresh]

49 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

Tbh I think you're missing a key aspect of this, which is that a chunk of those who hate the concept of refugees and asylum also believe in the just world idea, so if your home is rubble, you have no work, water or crops and are getting raided by militias, you must have done something to deserve it

Also ignoring the part played by our country in destabilising a lot of them

[leicsmac]

Just now, Tommy Fresh said:

Also ignoring the part played by our country in destabilising a lot of them

Another key point. 

 

As well as acknowledging that the issue exists, perhaps more people should ask exactly how the problem came to be in the first place, if they really want to address the core matters that allow it to be solved. 

[Jon the Hat]

57 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/lifestyle/jk-rowling-suggests-nigel-farage-is-woke-396373/

 

heartwarming, all the worst people you know are fighting.

I would say on balance that JKR and Farage are both having huge success in their endeavours in the past couple of years, (no doubt much to your irritation) so I don't expect they are too worried what each other thinks.

[Parafox]

10 hours ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

How are they eating if they aren’t getting free food? How are they paying for accommodation if they aren’t being provided it by the Government? 

 

Illegal immigrants aren’t coming to food banks to be fed, they’re being fed in the hotels they’re being housed in. 
 

You’re talking about people who have come here using legal routes I assume? Which is fair enough. 

This country has got to stop providing freebies for everyone. It can’t carry on without bringing the whole lot down. 

And there you go again.

 

Unqualified rhetoric.

 

I'm not going to labour the point or get into an unnecessary argument as I don't want this topic shut down again.

[JonnyBoy]

2 hours ago, CornwallFox said:

I think it isn't helped by the fact that a proportion of the older population cannot bear the idea they didn't have it worse. You routinely see online comments and older people on question time and the like angrily talking about how they had to struggle and how the young want everything. Even a slight glance at historic housing cost data shows it's far harder now, but there's definitely a fair proportion of the elderly that simply resent the idea it's harder now. Obviously this doesn't apply to all older people, but the loudest voices are often those with these sorts of views. 

 

It's also that same older population that has tended, on average, to vote for Tory austerity, endless public sector wage restraint, ever more swingeing benefit cuts (at a time when benefits are mainly supporting poorly paying jobs) etc, while any slight removal of anything from the elderly leads to outrage. We've literally watched youth centres, sure start, public spaces for the young etc all cut, while triple locked pensions have seen double digit rises in some years. 

 

The young really need to start voting. And not for the snake oil salesman. 

 

 

 

I think they are right about that, a lot of young people still want to go on holiday, have the latest i-phone, eat out a lot, coffees on their way to work, netflix subscription, car on finance list goes on. Then moan they can't save money (and btw I am a young(ish) person