Cifuentes OUT

[trooky]

2 hours ago, Claudio Fannieri said:

Not playing these player severely weakens our negotiating position. The board will have felt based on previous season at this level that they would do enough to keep us in the promotion contention whilst putting themselves in the shop window to negotiate a deal that works for the club in January. 
 

The difference is this time certain  players have checked out and effectively downed tools. 
 

These players are expensive assets paid huge weekly salaries there is no way any owner / DoF is going to allow players earning in excess of £250k per week to sit rotting in the stands. 

We don't have a negotiating position, these players are on a fortune and we need to comply with PSR. 

 

We'll do well to a get any fee for them, a loan with 100% wages payed is our starting point and if we get anyone stupid to pay a transfer fee that's a bonus IMO. 

[Claudio Fannieri]

8 minutes ago, trooky said:

We don't have a negotiating position, these players are on a fortune and we need to comply with PSR. 

 

We'll do well to a get any fee for them, a loan with 100% wages payed is our starting point and if we get anyone stupid to pay a transfer fee that's a bonus IMO. 

we absolutely had to give ourselves a fighting chance to have a negotiating position, the owner and DoF will have hoped that once the window closed the players who wanted out would knuckle down and show their class as they did for the majority of the 2023-24 season, however times have changed and moved on and unfortunately this time round this hasn’t been the case. 

 

I agree a loan that covers any amortisation and 100% coverage of wages is best we can hope for but to even secure that kind of deal means they needed to be involved. Leaving any of these in the stands from September through to the window opening would have led to nothing more than low ball offers. 
 

 

[BrilliantFox]

2 hours ago, LCFCJohn said:

We all want the 90 dominant performance but it’s a tight league and away from home, the home side is always going to have a spell in the game.

This logic is fine against Arsenal. You're not going to dominate Arsenal both halves.

 

But its Derby, that second half is simply unacceptable.

 

Marti set us up like we're QPR, he is out of his depth.

[trooky]

1 hour ago, Claudio Fannieri said:

we absolutely had to give ourselves a fighting chance to have a negotiating position, the owner and DoF will have hoped that once the window closed the players who wanted out would knuckle down and show their class as they did for the majority of the 2023-24 season, however times have changed and moved on and unfortunately this time round this hasn’t been the case. 

 

I agree a loan that covers any amortisation and 100% coverage of wages is best we can hope for but to even secure that kind of deal means they needed to be involved. Leaving any of these in the stands from September through to the window opening would have led to nothing more than low ball offers. 
 

 

We talking about Rudkin, we couldn't even get a decent fee for one of our most saleable assets in BEK. 

 

We're not going to have a bidding war for any of the players in question. 

 

IMO the strategy would be to let them rot in the reserves or just get rid, we've done neither.

 

I'd be quite happy if Faes rots in the reserves and misses out on the World cup, it's what he deserves. 

[Claudio Fannieri]

5 minutes ago, trooky said:

We talking about Rudkin, we couldn't even get a decent fee for one of our most saleable assets in BEK. 

 

We're not going to have a bidding war for any of the players in question. 

 

IMO the strategy would be to let them rot in the reserves or just get rid, we've done neither.

 

I'd be quite happy if Faes rots in the reserves and misses out on the World cup, it's what he deserves. 

But that viewpoint further compounds the PSR and financial issues. I would be more than happy to see Winks, Faes et al rot in the stands but the cold hard business facts are by doing that we would have 250k a week or over £10m per year in wages doing nothing and in the case of Faes losing a potential £10m+ transfer fee. Whilst in the premier league you may be able to hold that stance with one or two but not in the championship. 
 

In honestly believe the club wanted to limp through to January in the hope they could offload the likes of Winks, Daka, Soumare for fees or loans that cover amortisation but more importantly cover wages and then offload the likes of Faes and VK for fees that give us some profit and opportunity to generate funds to bring in 2 or 3 fresh faces. 
 

[ALC Fox]

Having one good half and one bad half was a regular feature until the recent calamitous performances. Yesterday was a return to what we've seen all season, with the difference that we were very, very good and also very clinical against Derby.

 

Having runners from deep (e.g. James) and playing with energy (including Skipp) was a breath of fresh air. Maybe that suits us more away from home, but the template now has to be Skipp and James deep and BDCR in the 10 position has to be the template going forward, with Page hopefully being given some game time.

 

Winks needs to earn his place back. Easily our best midfielder when he wants to be but is really hot and cold this season, and we may need to remove him from the dressing room if suspicions about his attitude are correct.

 

The differing performances within the same game are really frustrating, especially when we know that we can perform how we did in the first half against Derby.

 

Is Marti the guy to take us forward? It feels like he's still working out his best side and that he's being forced to include players who don't want to be here. And that some of those who he wants to include are very young and therefore inexperienced and inconsistent.

 

But we need to turn some of these inconsistent performances into more complete performances and build some momentum. We have the ability to trouble the top six and even maybe get up to second if we can put a run of form together. There's a long way to go.

[Dahnsouff]

1 hour ago, trooky said:

That doesn't make sense they've played poorly for at least a year and they're still here. 

 

No one will pay for Daka or Winks when they'll be available in the summer for free. 

 

The best we can hope for is a loan with 100% of their wages payed, which will save approx £3 million and that's 75% of JJs transfer fee. 

 

However I don't believe anyone is that stupid or desperate, truly shocking signings. 

 

 

 

 

 

Was thinking more from the showing any suitors they aren`t useless, despite being so for the best part of a year, but you are right about their contract. It renders it irrelevant. So out the hatch in the Winter Window if possible!

[Chrysalis]

5 hours ago, Claudio Fannieri said:

You do realise that PSR and amortisation means it’s not quite as simple as just giving players away for free, also interested clubs may not pay the same level of wages we are paying so we then are at risk that we have to pick up the shortfall. 
 

So for example if we freeze out Faes and as a result accept a low ball offer that is a couple of million short of his book value and then the buying club offer him reduced wages and we pick up the £20k per week shortfall that would be in PSR Terms a £2 million loss plus we would still have a £1m per year wage commitment. We would literally be preventing ourselves from signing a replacement. 
 

So the club have to try and keep these players involved and maximise value to ensure we generate funds to be able to reinvest.

 

PSR does not allow clubs like ourselves to take baths on poor signings on high wages. 

A lot of people misunderstand PSR, they think it needs you to get your money back, I try not to debate it too much.

But any kind of financial gain, such as getting rid of the wages still helps PSR, yes you might not get rid of all of the liability from the player purchase, but reducing the loss is still a PSR gain.

 

So e.g. you buy a player for 4 million, 4 year deal, amortised 1 million a year, and they also have 1 million a year salary.  Over 4 years, this is a total 8 million hit on the books.

 

If you get rid of the player end of year 3 for lets say 100k. (below book value).

You have still gained 1 million in wages plus the 100k cash from where you were prior to the sale, so the liability has reduced from 8 million to 6.9 million.

 

Insisting on recovering book value, is a big part of our problem, and led to us having a lot of players in the squad we dont want and also players winding down their contracts.  Iversen is a classic example of this.

Edited 7 December 2025 by Chrysalis
typos

[Claudio Fannieri]

3 hours ago, Chrysalis said:

A lot of people misunderstand PSR, they think it needs you to get your money back, I try not to debate it too much.

But any kind of financial gain, such as getting rid of the wages still helps PSR, yes you might not get rid of all of the liability from the player purchase, but reducing the loss is still a PSR gain.

 

So e.g. you buy a player for 4 million, 4 year deal, amortised 1 million a year, and they also have 1 million a year salary.  Over 4 years, this is a total 8 million hit on the books.

 

If you get rid of the player end of year 3 for lets say 100k. (below book value).

You have still gained 1 million in wages plus the 100k cash from where you were prior to the sale, so the liability has reduced from 8 million to 6.9 million.

 

Insisting on recovering book value, is a big part of our problem, and led to us having a lot of players in the squad we dont want and also players winding down their contracts.  Iversen is a classic example of this.

Yes I agree but the issue is we also pay ridiculous wages so the problem is we take a hit on book value and the buying club refuse to match the wages and we also end up covering the shortfall so miss out on both parts and therefore book a loss and have no room for manoeuvre on the wages front either. 

[whoareyaaa]

7 hours ago, BrilliantFox said:

This logic is fine against Arsenal. You're not going to dominate Arsenal both halves.

 

But its Derby, that second half is simply unacceptable.

 

Marti set us up like we're QPR, he is out of his depth.

We got 2 back against Sheff united it happens teams sit back when they are 3 up and try to protect the lead, no team is going gung ho for the second half that would be stupid.

 

Man City were 3 up at Leeds at home and it ended up 3-2  what's the big deal, have you never watched football before ?

Edited 7 December 2025 by whoareyaaa

[gurru991]

On 06/12/2025 at 07:40, Noahfence said:

Will give him credit for getting Aluko straight back onto the pitch so fair play. 

I thought that was good man management to show Aluko he still has confidence in him.  I do see positives in Marti & I think he could do a job if supplied with some decent players. He has shown strength by not playing Faes & excluding Winks but desperately needs a striker in the Winter window.

[BrilliantFox]

21 minutes ago, whoareyaaa said:

teams sit back when they are 3 up and try to protect the lead

 

what's the big deal, have you never watched football before ?

The best form of defence is attack and the opposition cannot score when you have the ball.

The big deal is it is an indictment on Marti's poor tactics and inability to dictate tempo and control a game.

 

2nd half we played like a Dyche team, sit back and invite pressure.

Hilariously enough, we couldn't even keep a clean sheet which proves my entire point.

 

You go for the jugular, get the 4th or 5th and finally demoralise the Derby players.

Keep the press high.

Keep the high line.

This is the football Marti promised, he is not delivering any of that.

 

Marti instead did the opposite and gave Derby more confidence. They were allowed 18 shots against us! You cannot make excuses for this.

 

Edited 7 December 2025 by BrilliantFox

[gurru991]

The only way I would  like to see Marti fired is if we have someone better lined up to replace him & at the present moment I have so little faith in Tweedle dum or Tweedle dee being able to get that right.

[whoareyaaa]

19 minutes ago, BrilliantFox said:

The best form of defence is attack and the opposition cannot score when you have the ball.

The big deal is it is an indictment on Marti's poor tactics and inability to dictate tempo and control a game.

 

2nd half we played like a Dyche team, sit back and invite pressure.

Hilariously enough, we couldn't even keep a clean sheet which proves my entire point.

 

You go for the jugular, get the 4th or 5th and finally demoralise the Derby players.

Keep the press high.

Keep the high line.

This is the football Marti promised, he is not delivering any of that.

 

Marti instead did the opposite and gave Derby more confidence. They were allowed 18 shots against us! You cannot make excuses for this.

 

The main thing is to get the 3 points, we was 3 up in the first half of course we are going to go out there to protect the lead not try and score 4 5 and 6 it rarely happens when a team is 3 up. so your point is moot. we done enough second half to get the 3 points and limit them to one goal.

[Dahnsouff]

Just now, whoareyaaa said:

The main thing is to get the 3 points, we was 3 up in the first half of course we are going to go out there to protect the lead not try and score 4 5 and 6 it rarely happens when a team is 3 up. so your point is moot. we done enough second half to get the 3 points and limit them to one goal.

It was also impossible that they would play so stupidly in the second half, so we did what has been done to us; we got the job done early.

[Pliskin]

A marker has been laid…. He now needs to build on this…

[Dahnsouff]

Yup, keep it going or get out.

[coolhandfox]

QPR up to 6th without Marti after only spent 8.5m this summer.

 

Marti only managed an 18th and 15th place finish.

 

[It'sblueupnorth]

34 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

QPR up to 6th without Marti after only spent 8.5m this summer.

 

Marti only managed an 18th and 15th place finish.

 

Not sure what the point is, they’re only 5 pts in front of 15th place with a game extra played and 26 left to play this season, they’ve also spent 8.5 more than Marti has this summer

[Joe90]

6 hours ago, It'sblueupnorth said:

Not sure what the point is, they’re only 5 pts in front of 15th place with a game extra played and 26 left to play this season, they’ve also spent 8.5 more than Marti has this summer

The point is marti is a shit manager who really has done nothing his managerial career 

[coolhandfox]

8 hours ago, It'sblueupnorth said:

Not sure what the point is, they’re only 5 pts in front of 15th place with a game extra played and 26 left to play this season, they’ve also spent 8.5 more than Marti has this summer

The fact is, they’ve achieved a higher league position this season than they ever did under him. His best was 10th for just a week, and their average position during his tenure was 18th.

 

So, they’ve improved without him, while he’s well on his way to dragging us down to his usual standard.

 

And you think last year’s QPR squad, plus £8m, should be outperforming our squad?

[teblin]

He needs to get another result tonight and at the weekend, the 1st half was good on Saturday but until we scored we still started slow. 

 

I'm not convinced, but would be great if he proved us all wrong in the long run, just can't see it.

[TheGoldenGod]

Expect this thread to be HOT at FT tonight.

[Tuna]

2 minutes ago, TheGoldenGod said:

Expect this thread to be HOT at FT tonight.

That's the spirit!

[TheGoldenGod]

5 minutes ago, Tuna said:

That's the spirit!

Could be for the reason we unanimously want the thread closed