Hullfox Posted 11 June 2006 Posted 11 June 2006 So by that reasoning a fan can never question any managerial decision, because if we knew better then we'd actually be in football management ourselves? Ex-players like Gary Lineker, Alan Shearer, Ian Wright and Alan Hansen all lamented Eriksson's tactics, just like us fans are doing. Are their opinions invalid too because they've never been international managers? Almost everybody thinks Hargreaves is useless - just because we're not international managers it doesn't mean we are wrong. Sven has played defensive football in the last 2 tournaments after we've gone ahead, and every single time it's cost us. Leading 1-0 v Brazil, we sit on it and lose 2-1. Same against France 2 years later. It's arguable that we did the same against Portugal in the same tournament although Sven has the convenient excuse that Wayne Rooney got injured. Today was a sign of things to come, I'd bet you money on it. Firstly, read your initial post. There's no question marks in there. You were telling not discussing. Of course decisions can be questioned. Debate is good, out and out attacks are very closed and don't invite discussion. As for the pundits, surely it's a question of who you agree with. All opinions are valid, not all are correct. Listening to Sir Bobby Robson, Martin Jol, Frank Lampard Snr and 5Live's Mike Sewell this morning gave different opinions to yours. Sewell who was in the stadium pointed out that Owen who had played one full game since December was wilting in front of his eyes. Robson and Jol who are both proven experts talked about the debilitating heat and how this should now be a platform to build from. (Not a brilliant performance, a job done and a platform). Lampard said how the team were suffering from the heat but buoyant about the result whilst knowing there was more to do. Almost very body thinks Hargreaves is useless????? From which poll did that come? I was under the impression that this man has played week in week out for the most succesful team in recent times in Germany. He simply cannot be useless. I would however agree that there is a discussion to be held about how he best fits into the England team but it seems to me that that is not what you are looking for. At the end of the day, I 'd rather be an England Supporter than a Swedish one this morning. Good sides win when they don't play so well (Chelsea spring to mind), England managed this yesterday. If we win on Thursday, we qualify after just two group games. Trawl back through the record books to see when we last achieved that. Despite the Anti Sven feeling that obviously exists with some, his record in championships is one of the best that we've had as a national side, that is unquestionable. Whether we could have done things better is.
Ric Flair Posted 12 June 2006 Posted 12 June 2006 Poor display by England, but they won. That's a great asset to have when you can win games when you play badly. Paraguay might not be classed as a dominant force in international football and our squad is much stronger than theirs but everyone knew they wouldn't be a pushover and they weren't thanks to some sloppy football from us. We won. Sweden ****ed up and we are now in the driving seat. England must now take the initiative and push on from here. If this is all we can moan about in this World Cup then we will have done very well. It's important that the manager and players learn from this game and reach their peak later on. Sven made some terrible decisions, but he doesn't have the final say on how England play football as a team. With the likes of John Terry, Rio Ferdinand, Steven Gerrard, Frank Lampard, David Beckham and Michael Owen in your team I find it hard to believe that these players would sit back on a 1-0 lead against Paraguay because Sven has told them to. I was embrassed by the performance, but as i've said. If this is the worst that happens to us this World Cup then we will have done very well. I'm not saying this is it for us now and we'll destroy every other team, but winning 1-0 against Paraguay hasn't ended our chances of success either. I'd be far more worried if I was Sweden than us.
Ricey Posted 12 June 2006 Author Posted 12 June 2006 Poor display by England, but they won. That's a great asset to have when you can win games when you play badly. Paraguay might not be classed as a dominant force in international football and our squad is much stronger than theirs but everyone knew they wouldn't be a pushover and they weren't thanks to some sloppy football from us. We won. Sweden ****ed up and we are now in the driving seat. England must now take the initiative and push on from here. If this is all we can moan about in this World Cup then we will have done very well. It's important that the manager and players learn from this game and reach their peak later on. Sven made some terrible decisions, but he doesn't have the final say on how England play football as a team. With the likes of John Terry, Rio Ferdinand, Steven Gerrard, Frank Lampard, David Beckham and Michael Owen in your team I find it hard to believe that these players would sit back on a 1-0 lead against Paraguay because Sven has told them to. I was embrassed by the performance, but as i've said. If this is the worst that happens to us this World Cup then we will have done very well. I'm not saying this is it for us now and we'll destroy every other team, but winning 1-0 against Paraguay hasn't ended our chances of success either. I'd be far more worried if I was Sweden than us. Agreed, also maybe it's a good thing we've started badly but still won? because hopefully now we can improve and turn in a couple of good performances against T&T and Sweden which will give us high confidence going into the group stage. I'd sooner play badly in the first game rather than the third.
Fez of Mahrez Posted 12 June 2006 Posted 12 June 2006 We don't have any more games before 5pm German time so they can't blame the heat from here on in.
Steven Posted 12 June 2006 Posted 12 June 2006 We don't have any more games before 5pm German time so they can't blame the heat from here on in. The next excuse is already being prepared.
davieG Posted 12 June 2006 Posted 12 June 2006 The next excuse is already being prepared. Sven's Coaching Manuals
Daggers Posted 12 June 2006 Posted 12 June 2006 The best thing about getting older is having a fading memory - already the visions from Saturday are blurring and being replaced with a misplaced and unexplainable sense of optimism.
davieG Posted 12 June 2006 Posted 12 June 2006 The best thing about getting older is having a fading memory - already the visions from Saturday are blurring and being replaced with a misplaced and unexplainable sense of optimism. What happened on Saturday, anything important?
Daggers Posted 12 June 2006 Posted 12 June 2006 What happened on Saturday, anything important? ...umm...I think I did the shopping on Saturday. Or was it the washing... Why?
martyn Posted 12 June 2006 Posted 12 June 2006 Firstly, read your initial post. There's no question marks in there. You were telling not discussing. Of course decisions can be questioned. Debate is good, out and out attacks are very closed and don't invite discussion. As for the pundits, surely it's a question of who you agree with. All opinions are valid, not all are correct. Listening to Sir Bobby Robson, Martin Jol, Frank Lampard Snr and 5Live's Mike Sewell this morning gave different opinions to yours. Sewell who was in the stadium pointed out that Owen who had played one full game since December was wilting in front of his eyes. Robson and Jol who are both proven experts talked about the debilitating heat and how this should now be a platform to build from. (Not a brilliant performance, a job done and a platform). Lampard said how the team were suffering from the heat but buoyant about the result whilst knowing there was more to do. Almost very body thinks Hargreaves is useless????? From which poll did that come? I was under the impression that this man has played week in week out for the most succesful team in recent times in Germany. He simply cannot be useless. I would however agree that there is a discussion to be held about how he best fits into the England team but it seems to me that that is not what you are looking for. At the end of the day, I 'd rather be an England Supporter than a Swedish one this morning. Good sides win when they don't play so well (Chelsea spring to mind), England managed this yesterday. If we win on Thursday, we qualify after just two group games. Trawl back through the record books to see when we last achieved that. Despite the Anti Sven feeling that obviously exists with some, his record in championships is one of the best that we've had as a national side, that is unquestionable. Whether we could have done things better is. Spot on my friend. The Hargreaves hate is ridiculous and fuelled by pundits/journalists who naturally discriminate against him for never having played in England whilst remaining ignorant to his importance at Bayern Munich. He has 31 caps, how many of these have been 90 minutes in his preferred position.
Anish Posted 13 June 2006 Posted 13 June 2006 Spot on my friend. The Hargreaves hate is ridiculous and fuelled by pundits/journalists who naturally discriminate against him for never having played in England whilst remaining ignorant to his importance at Bayern Munich. He has 31 caps, how many of these have been 90 minutes in his preferred position. Name one good performance by Hargreaves in an England shirt and I'll name 20 bad performances. It's that simple. He can do however well he wants to in Germany but almost everytime he wears the England shirt he's shite. It says a lot about German football that Hargreaves looks a quality player. He media don't slate him simply because he doesn't play in England. Over the years Gascoigne, Ince, Platt, Beckham et al have all been playing abroad. Anyway, if he did play in the Premiership he'd be pissed all over. None of the top teams would buy him for sure.
macbeth Posted 13 June 2006 Posted 13 June 2006 ronnie ancona/ alitair mcgowan sketch had got it right about him.... he only gets in the england team cos everyone wants to kiss him when a goal is scored........by either side
Ric Flair Posted 13 June 2006 Posted 13 June 2006 The best thing about getting older is having a fading memory - already the visions from Saturday are blurring and being replaced with a misplaced and unexplainable sense of optimism. Correct! I am already back to thinking we will win the world cup again. Optimism, blind optimism.
Master Fox Posted 13 June 2006 Posted 13 June 2006 Correct! I am already back to thinking we will win the world cup again. Optimism, blind optimism. I still believe we're going to win the competition. I don't understand why people were moaning about the performance against Paraguay? The job was to win the game which we did. Now we're in a fantastic position to reach the next round after we destroy T & T on Thursday. England are a strong team, they didn't need to play well against Paraguay to win the game. This is a sign of a good team IMO. To add point about Hargreaves, when has he ever played a full 90 mins for England? I think he came on against Paraguay and did a decent job. Some of comments that people come out with after England games really pisses me off. Why can't everyone get behind the team? We won our first game against a good side that we made look very average. It was a fantastic victory and now we'll only get better on the way to glory!
Bert Posted 13 June 2006 Posted 13 June 2006 Name one good performance by Hargreaves in an England shirt and I'll name 20 bad performances. It's that simple. He can do however well he wants to in Germany but almost everytime he wears the England shirt he's shite. It says a lot about German football that Hargreaves looks a quality player. He media don't slate him simply because he doesn't play in England. Over the years Gascoigne, Ince, Platt, Beckham et al have all been playing abroad. Anyway, if he did play in the Premiership he'd be pissed all over. None of the top teams would buy him for sure. Good post Anish and some good points raised. Hargreaves wil never be a regular starter in any of our top 4 english teams, he'd do well at teams like Middlesborough, Villa but that's only 'cos their shite. I thought Hargreaves did well when he came on on Saturday, he looked a lot tighter on his man/men when closing them down, but he isn't world class and if we persist playing him for 30 minutes or so in every game, goals wll be conceded through him, not primarily thrugh him bein cack, but the fact of the heat and how long it takes a sub to adjust to a game. The position is vital because its the last point of defence before they can either run at our defence and/or have a shot on goal, with a fair chance of the ball going in.
shen Posted 13 June 2006 Posted 13 June 2006 I still believe we're going to win the competition. I don't understand why people were moaning about the performance against Paraguay? The job was to win the game which we did. Now we're in a fantastic position to reach the next round after we destroy T & T on Thursday. England are a strong team, they didn't need to play well against Paraguay to win the game. This is a sign of a good team IMO. To add point about Hargreaves, when has he ever played a full 90 mins for England? I think he came on against Paraguay and did a decent job. Some of comments that people come out with after England games really pisses me off. Why can't everyone get behind the team? We won our first game against a good side that we made look very average. It was a fantastic victory and now we'll only get better on the way to glory! Paraguay are a very ordinary side. England didn't create a single clear cut chance bar a couple of long shots. People are fully entitled to expect some good football from a team full of top class players, where all the outfield players had previous Champions League experience. The only real positive from the game is that England got the 3 points, which of course is the most important thing. But there isn't much else England can take from this game..
Hullfox Posted 13 June 2006 Posted 13 June 2006 Name one good performance by Hargreaves in an England shirt and I'll name 20 bad performances. It's that simple. He can do however well he wants to in Germany but almost everytime he wears the England shirt he's shite. It says a lot about German football that Hargreaves looks a quality player. He media don't slate him simply because he doesn't play in England. Over the years Gascoigne, Ince, Platt, Beckham et al have all been playing abroad. Anyway, if he did play in the Premiership he'd be pissed all over. None of the top teams would buy him for sure. Well, seen as you're so sure then.... Hargreaves you're shit. Apparently it's official.
Strokes Posted 13 June 2006 Posted 13 June 2006 Well, seen as you're so sure then.... Hargreaves you're shit. Apparently it's official. Didn't realise this site was all about facts, or do we have to run our opinions by you for approval?
Hullfox Posted 13 June 2006 Posted 13 June 2006 Didn't realise this site was all about facts, or do we have to run our opinions by you for approval? Not at all, though if you are unsure of anything you write, feel free to ask for help. I've been completely won over by the strength of the argument made - Hargreaves is quite blatantly shit.
The People's Hero Posted 13 June 2006 Posted 13 June 2006 He's discrete and gives a cracking blow job. What more could Sven want?
Hullfox Posted 13 June 2006 Posted 13 June 2006 He's discrete and gives a cracking blow job. What more could Sven want? Actually, his blow jobs might be okay in Germany but as soon as he tries one for the national team he's shit.
The People's Hero Posted 13 June 2006 Posted 13 June 2006 Nah, you've got it all wrong. He's good at oral sex. He's rubbish at football.
Daggers Posted 14 June 2006 Posted 14 June 2006 It was a fantastic victory and now we'll only get better on the way to glory! Do you earn a crust working as a spin doctor?
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