Who should we blame for the downfall of our youths?

[Trotty]

Peter Taylor

[Darkzzz_]

Downfall of our Youths??

It's easy to say blame the parents i suppose. I do partly blame them, as discipline is a major part in growing up, Every parent should be teaching there children right from wrong and at the same time letting them learn from there own mistakes can make them adapt better in society!

A lot of parents dont even care that there kids are running around the streets until midnight, why?? Are they too busy to be parents? If so why did they decide to have the kids in the first place??

I think a lot of it comes down to the above factors, also society in general plays a major part in what is happening on our streets.

Drugs and Drink are so easy to get hold of, with that all combined these kids become full of rage, craving that attention they never got off there parents, looking to be part of something, then comes the whole gang issue, the family, the belonging to something!!

It is a vicious circle, that needs to be tackled at the root of it all, the way we bring these kids up!!!

At the end of the day, no kid is born into this, it is the people around them that play a major part in which way there life will go...

I just wish sometimes this country would be a lot tougher when it comes to these issues!

[MC Prussian]

Unfortunately, in the video game called "Life", you can't just pull the plug or cut the power.

You can reset a game, but not a living and breathing human being.

Seriously though, youth violence has always existed and will continue to do so. You can't prevent it entirely, but maybe have an impact on an individual basis. What has changed though, is the level of brutality and the amount of weapons included. Back in the days, you'd start a fight to put things right and after a few blows or literally "teaching" your adversary a "lesson", you'd often help him back up, clean the clothes, shake hands and go separate ways again.

There are too many kids out there today following a "Gangsta" cult that has its place in North America only and which is the result of a specific historic development and should thus be put in context.

Imitating an original has never been the way forward. It's the reason why I can't take those boys serious.

I, for my part, have never been involved in beatings and I consider myself lucky.

[breadandcheese]

Anyone get smacked as a child?

To be honest that sorted me out good and proper and kept me in line along with being brought up with a conscience (sp?) but since smacking seems to have been banned all these kids are running riot and have a lack of discipline. I remember there was a woman who lived near me, very upper class who didn't believe in smacking, her son is now in prison.

What are peoples views on this? Old timers - bring back the cane?

The funny thing is, if you ask the question "who supports smacking children?" in my experience, I have always found those that do support it were smacked themselves.

[Head Honcho]

Have we stopped blaming Tony Blair for everything now then?

[Darkzzz_]

Have we stopped blaming Tony Blair for everything now then?

Yeah on to the next victim!!

Tony is yesterdays news.... " we wont stop until we have Browns head" cry the british public

[Alexikokopops]

Why have we stopped playing the blame game?!

Be specific.

- Zimbabweans

- Somalis

- Nigerians

- Eastern Europeans

I blame the blacks.

I think the browns definately have some say in the matter.

And them gays.

Oh those gays.

[Master Fox]

Why have we stopped playing the blame game?!

I think the browns definately have some say in the matter.

And them gays.

Oh those gays.

Don't get me started on those 'GAYS'

[Raj]

Why have we stopped playing the blame game?!

I think the browns definately have some say in the matter.

And them gays.

Oh those gays.

And dont get me started on them Brown types!!!

[Darkzzz_]

And dont get me started on them Brown types!!!

Them browns are nasty things once they get going!!

Getting into the minds of the youth, injecting them with venom, rage and evil thoughts!!

All in the name of money and power!

I blame these corner shops!

[blue blood]

Unfortunately, in the video game called "Life", you can't just pull the plug or cut the power.

You can reset a game, but not a living and breathing human being.

Seriously though, youth violence has always existed and will continue to do so. You can't prevent it entirely, but maybe have an impact on an individual basis. What has changed though, is the level of brutality and the amount of weapons included. Back in the days, you'd start a fight to put things right and after a few blows or literally "teaching" your adversary a "lesson", you'd often help him back up, clean the clothes, shake hands and go separate ways again.

There are too many kids out there today following a "Gangsta" cult that has its place in North America only and which is the result of a specific historic development and should thus be put in context.

Imitating an original has never been the way forward. It's the reason why I can't take those boys serious.

I, for my part, have never been involved in beatings and I consider myself lucky.

More or less spot on there with my views me old mucker. the fact is back in the days fists were used to settle disputes. Nowadays knives are used for the fcuk of it.

Even myself if i see trouble i think twice whether i should interviene as it only takes one swipe to be cut up.

I think one stark difference i notice between the early 90's and now is that when i was at school everyday before school we would play football, every break and lunch we would play football and everyday after school we would play football. I would only need to cross the road and walk into a park. That same park is completely fenced off now and i never see the youth playing footy in the neigboring parks anymore. What should they do with their time? can you blame them? yes the buck stops at the parents but how is it possible for the parents to control elements of society?

[JadeFalcon]

i'll tell you who, the damned government thats who, who cant control the illegal/legal migration to this country,

you know why ? cause there are 400 prison places at leicester jail, 270 of those places taken up by migrants that are deemed a flight risk, held there till they can be deported

this labour government has systematically destroyed this country by not giving a crap about the people of this country, while helping out everybody else, i recently read a story on bbc news that britain is going to give £825M to either india or pakistan over something or other... yet our country is on the verge of social collapse imho, could this money not have gone to help out homeless population ? our hospitals ? better jails ? more police ?

no lets just give it out to everybody else before even thinking of the people here first

why do you think they banned firearms here ? not to appease a few parents in scotland, whom yes i do feel sorry for, but imho the real reason is so we have no way do 1. defend ourselves in the event of any form of war and 2. to stop the people uprising against this self centered egotistical government that dont actually give a fook about the people who put them in power

^---- my £1's worth on this subject

also an edit on alexie's comments... i totally agree with you on the "gangsta" culture, i was browsing myspace music the other day, came across some so called gansta rapper, rapping about guns bitches bling and the hard life in the ganglands... u know where this guy was from ?? leicester ffs.... what in the F**K does this guy know ? i could have understood a hard life if u had come from the bronx / queens / compton, but ffs you from leicester ! this little 6 stone feckin reprobate would get eaten alive on the real streets, thats why so many people like this end up dead on a street somewhere, basically"flap your mouth off loud enough and long enough" and somebody will come along eat him up for it

found the guy again http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fusea...endID=234155038

"5 to the head and 5 to the belly" <--- sums it all up really

[Koke]

Absolutely, 100% spot on Lee. I talk about this issue a lot with my girlfriend who manages a youth project and is also doing a Masters in criminology. Everything you say about the media is correct. At the same time there is a lot of work to be done. Part of the problem is that because of this media sensationalism MP's and other people who think they know best feel the need to come out and speak about what is wrong. Often they are so far wide of the mark and only serve to increase the "gap" between what they think needs to be done and the reality of what youth really needs.

It's not about more police or more discipline or more ASBO's or harsher sentences. It's about people like my girlfriend working with young people face to face, giving them skills, responsibility and direction.

There is a problem, like there's always been, but it never gets solved because the policy makers and people in power haven't got a f**king clue.

I appreciate and respect what you g/f is doing but I just don't think It's that simple talking to them face to face. Some of them are as stubborn as ever. My brother once worked on a youth project for a local community in Wolverhampton many years ago and it was a bitch. He was 24 at the time and he did connect with some of them, but most them were completely lost with their "Feck you, I do as I please" attitude.

Do you believe parents should be given more freedom to teach and discipline their kids? The way I see is that the parents have their hands tied around their backs and if their kids commits a public criminal offence everybody will start pointing the fingers at the parents. School teachers is another thing, the lack of respect shown to them by school kids these days is really appalling.

I'm not saying bring back the cane, I'm just saying parents should be given more freedom when it comes to their kids, even if it means smacking them once in a while.

I do agree with you on the media thing though.

[Koke]

Unfortunately, in the video game called "Life", you can't just pull the plug or cut the power.

You can reset a game, but not a living and breathing human being.

Seriously though, youth violence has always existed and will continue to do so. You can't prevent it entirely, but maybe have an impact on an individual basis. What has changed though, is the level of brutality and the amount of weapons included. Back in the days, you'd start a fight to put things right and after a few blows or literally "teaching" your adversary a "lesson", you'd often help him back up, clean the clothes, shake hands and go separate ways again.

There are too many kids out there today following a "Gangsta" cult that has its place in North America only and which is the result of a specific historic development and should thus be put in context.

Imitating an original has never been the way forward. It's the reason why I can't take those boys serious.

I, for my part, have never been involved in beatings and I consider myself lucky.

Good point.

[Koke]

Why have we stopped playing the blame game?!

I think the browns definately have some say in the matter.

And them gays.

Oh those gays.

I blame these lot

[hairy]

Society. Every aspect of it.

[Bellend Sebastian]

Absolutely, 100% spot on Lee. I talk about this issue a lot with my girlfriend who manages a youth project and is also doing a Masters in criminology. Everything you say about the media is correct. At the same time there is a lot of work to be done. Part of the problem is that because of this media sensationalism MP's and other people who think they know best feel the need to come out and speak about what is wrong. Often they are so far wide of the mark and only serve to increase the "gap" between what they think needs to be done and the reality of what youth really needs.

It's not about more police or more discipline or more ASBO's or harsher sentences. It's about people like my girlfriend working with young people face to face, giving them skills, responsibility and direction.

There is a problem, like there's always been, but it never gets solved because the policy makers and people in power haven't got a f**king clue.

I agree with you on this one, certainly. One of the least helpful contributions to the debate that always gets trotted out is the notion that you will somehow create better citizens by beating their problems out of them. I too know someone that works with youngsters, particularly troubled ones at that, and the backgrounds of some of these kids is so f**ked up that it would be difficult to dream up a punishment that would be worse than their actual lives, other than perhaps physically torturing them. The possibly surprising thing with these kids though, and let's be clear, some of their behaviour is pretty vile, when shown some care and respect, set a good example, and given a proper opportunity to express themselves, they are capable of being proper functioning human beings.

Obviously I'm talking about the worst kids here. As for kids generally, I don't think they're that bad - no worse than they've been at any other point in history

[James.]

I appreciate and respect what you g/f is doing but I just don't think It's that simple talking to them face to face. Some of them are as stubborn as ever. My brother once worked on a youth project for a local community in Wolverhampton many years ago and it was a bitch. He was 24 at the time and he did connect with some of them, but most them were completely lost with their "Feck you, I do as I please" attitude.

Do you believe parents should be given more freedom to teach and discipline their kids? The way I see is that the parents have their hands tied around their backs and if their kids commits a public criminal offence everybody will start pointing the fingers at the parents. School teachers is another thing, the lack of respect shown to them by school kids these days is really appalling.

I'm not saying bring back the cane, I'm just saying parents should be given more freedom when it comes to their kids, even if it means smacking them once in a while.

I do agree with you on the media thing though.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying a face to face chat will solve the problem. What I'm saying is that instead of a bunch of out of touch politicians saying we need to do this and that they should be investing in people who actually go into the estates, youth clubs, etc and try to make a difference on the "front line" as it were. I'm sick of so-called experts proclaiming how dangerous the streets are from the comfort of their middle class lives when there's good people out there really trying hard to give these young people the inspiration and direction they crave.

I'd probably agree with you on the parents thing but the problem there is that parents can not control their kids every hour of the day, and nor should they. It's a difficult one. More discipline would probably help in the short term but I don't see it having a significant long term effect.

[James.]

I agree with you on this one, certainly. One of the least helpful contributions to the debate that always gets trotted out is the notion that you will somehow create better citizens by beating their problems out of them. I too know someone that works with youngsters, particularly troubled ones at that, and the backgrounds of some of these kids is so f**ked up that it would be difficult to dream up a punishment that would be worse than their actual lives, other than perhaps physically torturing them. The possibly surprising thing with these kids though, and let's be clear, some of their behaviour is pretty vile, when shown some care and respect, set a good example, and given a proper opportunity to express themselves, they are capable of being proper functioning human beings.

Obviously I'm talking about the worst kids here. As for kids generally, I don't think they're that bad - no worse than they've been at any other point in history

I can entirely relate what you're saying with the conversations I've had with my girlfriend. Some of the stories you hear are absoluterly shocking. Punishment, in those circumstances, is completely counter productive.

All of which implies that this needs to be analysed on a case by case basis, every "youth" has their own set of needs and issues. Blanket policies won't help.

[Thracian]

Anyone get smacked as a child?

To be honest that sorted me out good and proper and kept me in line along with being brought up with a conscience (sp?) but since smacking seems to have been banned all these kids are running riot and have a lack of discipline. I remember there was a woman who lived near me, very upper class who didn't believe in smacking, her son is now in prison.

What are peoples views on this? Old timers - bring back the cane?

Not at all.

I was smacked/caned as a kid when I deserved it but I've never physically punished the two younger of my three sons.

I've always trusted my sons and treated them with the same respect as I'd expect for myself, even when they were young.

I've never really had rules as such but reasons for our ideas about acceptable behaviour were explained over time.

For instance: Would you want someone to steal your phone? No. well don't steal anyone else's and if such a thing happens to you are you a weakling who would respond by doing the same or are you your own personality and able to make and stand by your own right choices?

We've tried to live respectably ourselves to the point where if we fall down ourselves - and we do just like everyone else - our kids are as likely to point it out if we don't recognise it ourselves.

There's not much point talking about treating people with respect if you don't practice it. The same goes for girlfriends really. "Would you want your girl to go dating someone else at the same time as dating you? If not, then don't do it to them."

Our family is there for each other whatever, no ifs or buts. There are no problems our sons can bring home that we wouldn't be there to offer support with. Declaring they were homosexual, had AIDS, had killed a copper...it would make no difference. In fact the first mentioned wouldn't even constitute a problem beyond having to get used to something I was unfamiliar with and I actually wonder if circumstances might make a homosexual out of anyone (another potential thread altogether).

My point is that anyone can stand steadfast in good times. But as parents our kids know that if they're in any kind of trouble/difficulty or have any kind of problem there's one place they can turn to for unconditional help and support.

Parents might try to set standards and might offer their guidance but they aren't there to be judgemental or to force their views on their offspring. It's their kids lives, not theirs. If kids naturally see some merit in what you stand for then fine but forcing them/brainwashing them is totally different to simply setting them an example and letting they choose a pathway for themselves.

Parents are there to be a rock for their children whenever they need it and to give them the strength of character to be rocks themselves in time.

There are I am sure other ways to approach parenthood and whatever approach you choose it's there but for fortune sometimes. Kids can take a wrong turn whatever their upbringing, physical punishment or no punishment. That's why I believe it is so important to give them strength of character from the off.

And, perhaps, to give them a pet to help look after too.

My sons all grew up having to take part responsibility for a dog from the time it was a pup. They quickly learned to understand why certain training safeguarded the dog's welfare and therefore, I'm sure, to understand why there'd be good reason I'd ask them to take certain precautions in certain situations.

Like posting a guard when they went swimming in the quarry, always wearing proper shoes when climbing or taking weather checks, letting people know where they were going and taking friends along when they went skiing.

And when my wife curls up on the sofa at night and says "We've got good sons" I know I've been blessed and that my faith in them has been justified in countless ways.

PS: I don't see so much the downfall of youth as the lack of proper guidance by leaders who should have known better and by adults who should have been wiser. But that's another argument altogether.

[blue blood]

i'll tell you who, the damned government thats who, who cant control the illegal/legal migration to this country,

you know why ? cause there are 400 prison places at leicester jail, 270 of those places taken up by migrants that are deemed a flight risk, held there till they can be deported

this labour government has systematically destroyed this country by not giving a crap about the people of this country, while helping out everybody else, i recently read a story on bbc news that britain is going to give £825M to either india or pakistan over something or other... yet our country is on the verge of social collapse imho, could this money not have gone to help out homeless population ? our hospitals ? better jails ? more police ?

no lets just give it out to everybody else before even thinking of the people here first

why do you think they banned firearms here ? not to appease a few parents in scotland, whom yes i do feel sorry for, but imho the real reason is so we have no way do 1. defend ourselves in the event of any form of war and 2. to stop the people uprising against this self centered egotistical government that dont actually give a fook about the people who put them in power

^---- my £1's worth on this subject

also an edit on alexie's comments... i totally agree with you on the "gangsta" culture, i was browsing myspace music the other day, came across some so called gansta rapper, rapping about guns bitches bling and the hard life in the ganglands... u know where this guy was from ?? leicester ffs.... what in the F**K does this guy know ? i could have understood a hard life if u had come from the bronx / queens / compton, but ffs you from leicester ! this little 6 stone feckin reprobate would get eaten alive on the real streets, thats why so many people like this end up dead on a street somewhere, basically"flap your mouth off loud enough and long enough" and somebody will come along eat him up for it

found the guy again http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fusea...endID=234155038

"5 to the head and 5 to the belly" <--- sums it all up really

ha ha ha that guy is funny, his rapping is not the best, what ever happened to the sugar hill gang et at?

[Alexikokopops]

I blame these lot

I still express, yo, I don't smoke weed or sess

Cause it's known to give a brother brain damage

And brain damage on the mic don't manage - NUTHIN

but makin a sucka and you equal

Don't be another sequel...

Four years later he releases an album called the Chronic.

I think you're onto something...

[purpleronnie]

As the who said 'The kids are alright'.

[Webbo]

I remember the campaign to ban the cane when I was at school, all the do-gooders said that schools and society would become less violent as a result. Does anybody agree that that's what happened?

When I was at school the pupils feared the teachers now it's the other way round.

[Darkzzz_]

I remember the campaign to ban the cane when I was at school, all the do-gooders said that schools and society would become less violent as a result. Does anybody agree that that's what happened?

When I was at school the pupils feared the teachers now it's the other way round.

Bring back the demon headmaster!!!