Dr The Singh Posted 26 March 2009 Posted 26 March 2009 Ask Dr The Singh... Wrong it was Babs, that started it, I just continued it and called Gandhi a coont!! Then you peeed me off byt saying: 'Hindus Sikh violence is so last century' And unfortunately I didn't have enough time to answer that because it's SOOOOOOOO, isn't last century, and do you know why, because this century the thousands of women raped, children and man murdered have not recieved justice. There victims are still alive, yet the culprits roam free!! Have you heard of 'widow colony' in Delhi, this is the place where thtems of thousands of women were shunned and hidden away from the world by the Indian government!! These woment were raped and or made widows but government propageted terror, they live in squallers, there kids have no future and nor do these women. Where is the justice!! What about those ten of thousands of men and boys kidnapped by government agents for never to return, what about there families!! The culprits have been awarded with medals, honours and have statues and government buildings named after them!! What about the 100,000 sikhs still sitting in prison, without being charged or ever going to get a trial date!! Forget guantanimo, atleast they have some rights!! WHat about the desicrationa theft of 100's of SIkh historical artifacts by the Indian Army, where are those artifiacts now!! These issues are still here this century, worse still many of these things are still going on!! Cus, you know fook all about what has transpired with the Indian government and Sikhs, doesn;sn't give you a right to be so pig fooking ignorant!!
James. Posted 26 March 2009 Posted 26 March 2009 If you really want to see for yourself, why don't I take you to my local Sikh Temple (Holy Bones), maybe before a city game, you can visit the first Sikh Museum outside of hindustan and partake in some free food (curry) which is open for all, worshippers and non worshippers alike. Free curry!! Well up for that Singh.
Alexikokopops Posted 26 March 2009 Posted 26 March 2009 Singh! Can you explain in a nutshell why Gandhi ain't liked by Sikhs? I missed it before in the Gandhi statue thread
Alexikokopops Posted 26 March 2009 Posted 26 March 2009 Free curry!! Well up for that Singh. I remember when we went on a trip to Leicester to see Hindu, Sikh and Muslim places of worship (I think Muslim, I can't remember) we got some cracking curry and onion bahjis. I want to be Sikh
Thracian Posted 26 March 2009 Posted 26 March 2009 Ultra,First source, the UK Sikh Federation, the largest Sikh organisation outside of the hindustan, various other banner organisations including BOSS (British Organisation of Sikh Students, the largest Youth Sikh Body outside of the hindustan). These guys have grown to be very powerful as a voice of the Sikhs, and have been taken very seriously buy our ruler Gordon and the future one David!! Majority of Sikh Temples and Sikh Human Rights groups also come under this banner, majority come under the banner of the SIkh Coalition, this shows the organisations in which the Sikhs are entwinned and have a common thought, I would presume the sentiments would ressinate accross all of the coalition, have a look and see who's in it and see how many UK Temples are part of it for yourself, they also have many articles which discredit gandhi and his mohatma status, comfirming what i'm saying http://www.sikhcoalition.org/miramax_details.asp Back to UKSF from there website, alhough not related to the statue of Leicester, I would presume it would have the same result: The Sikh Federation (UK) also provided the Mayor with useful information for him to consider why it is not appropriate to support a statue of Mahatma Gandhi in Parliament Square. Prior to the meeting the Mayor’s Office were made aware of factual information on www.gandhism.net. It is almost certain the idea of a statue of Gandhi, which has also been strongly opposed by Westminster City Council is now permanently off the agenda. http://www.sikhfederation.com/index.php?op...atid=37:archive Ultra, it's your lucky day, you asked for 'source' i'm willing to give yo a first hand source, ME!! Unfortunately I don't think any SIkh temple or group were ever interviewed regarding the matter (as far as i know), and if they were, the remarks would probably be far too controversial for the likes of the Leicester Mercury. My family have a long history with majorirty of the SIkh temples and know commity members of most. If you really want to see for yourself, why don't I take you to my local Sikh Temple (Holy Bones), maybe before a city game, you can visit the first Sikh Museum outside of hindustan and partake in some free food (curry) which is open for all, worshippers and non worshippers alike. I know the community\congregation well, they all are from the narborough road area and I have grew up with whose on the commitee, infact the president (Ajmer Basra) only lives around the corner to me. My mother, every morning, cooks and cleans at the free kitchen, my kids go punjabi school and I go to there gym, so you could say this temple is integral part of my life and integral to the Sikh community around that area!! Firstly you will notice in the musuem, all the freedom fighters, martyrs etc, many pics also are of hindus and muslims, funnily enough some brits. Gandhi supposedly being father of the nation (india)and the one who got us\sikhs freedom from the british, you would expect to his picture????? Not even one, I have never been to any Sikh temple in my life with his picture in it, there are many other hindu's even muslims but never that bold twat...........that my friend speaks louder then any statue or website link!!! Before you say this is not the only temple, I will show my relationship with them and how they all are interlinked. My family is entwined with most: Ramgharhia Board, Meynell Road, my family were one of the first members of this temple and have been for 35 years, my family built this temple, they did alot of the carpentry and metal work. This temple is very inclusive, and has a close nit inner circle, my uncles Mr Sev and Kalsi are on the board!! This temple shy itself from 'politics', but they participate in many functions held by BOSS, and UKSF. Again no Gandhi pics, and have participated in many human rights rallies against hindustan!!! Guru Tegh Bahadur, probably the largest Sikh Temple in Leicester, I don't have much to do with this temple to be honest, but they have a Sikh library and a Sikh gallery containing Martyrs, Freedom Fighters etc, again NO Gandhi!!! They are connected with many Sikh Youth organisations including BOSS and Sikhsangat. And have had affiliations with the Sikh Coalition and UKSF Sikh Temple, Asford Road, this temple is privately funded Sikh Temple by a Priest, being based in India, they would never openly admit to anything anit indian, in fear of being aressted and tortured in India. Having said that, they have had guest many guest speakers which have lashed out against the Gandhi regime. Again no Gandhi pics!! My sister is getting married at this temple and trust me if it were pro gandhian, no way would she get married here!!! Gurdwara Dashmesh, Gypsy Lane, my boy goes martial arts training here (Shin Kin), it's heavily infused with BOSS, and many of the students where alot of clothing with Babbar Khalsa and Sant Jarnail Singh on it, bith which have a fondness for being anti gandhi!! Just as alittle proof, the Shin Kin propogates the Sikh National Anthem, how anti India of them: http://www.shin-kin.com/articles/sikh-national-anthem.html Ravidass, and any others are very small interms of community members, but all take part in the Sikh Parade, where all Martyrs are remembered, No Gandhi obviously!!! This is not just a UK thing, his statue is also being out up in the US, Sikhs have also opposed that one aswell http://www.hvk.org/articles/0801/51.html http://sikhsinkuwait.wordpress.com/2007/10/17/219/ I ASK YOU ULTRA NAME ME ONE MAJOR SIKH ORGANISATION THAT GAVE THERE BLESSING TO THE MONSTERS STATUE Again Ultra, like I have said, stop trying to be a smart arse, and try act like you know something you know fook all about!!! Fascinating. Is this Sikh museum open for anyone to view or do you have to be accompanied? It seems strange that I pass it on many occasions and never even realised what it was. Are there English translations if you'll excuse my ignorance on this?
Babylon Posted 26 March 2009 Posted 26 March 2009 Wrong it was Babs, that started it I blame Jade Goody... Did someone say free curry? I'm up for it... what do I have to do?
Dr The Singh Posted 26 March 2009 Posted 26 March 2009 At least show him enough respect to spell his name right.. I'd quite like to see a non-racist, non-sectarian explanation as to why a Gandhi statue would cause offence. But I didn't see any such case last year, and don't expect one to appear now. You having a laugh, Gandhi is a racist himself, let alone, a hypocrite, a adulterer, liar, conspirer, not really actions of a mohatma!! Again Ultra, another little lesson!! GANDHI ON NON-VIOLENCE • During a prayer speech: “If we had the atom bomb, we would have used it against the British.” - June 16, 1947 »Reference: Gandhi’s “The Last Phase”, Vol II, p. 326 To the British during WWII: “This manslaughter must be stopped. You are losing; if you persist, it will only result in greater bloodshed. Hitler is not a bad man.” »Reference: G.D. Birla’s “In the Shadow of the Mahatma”, p. 276 GANDHI ON BLACKS AND RACE RELATIONS • “A general belief seems to prevail in the colony that the Indians are little better, if at all, than the savages or natives of Africa. Even the children are taught to believe in that manner, with the result that the Indian is being dragged down to the position of a raw Kaffir.” »Reference: The Collected Works of Mahatma Gandhi, Government of India (CWMG), Vol I, p. 150 • Regarding forcible registration with the state of blacks: “One can understand the necessity for registration of Kaffirs who will not work.” »Reference: CWMG, Vol I, p. 105 • “Why, of all places in Johannesburg, the Indian Location should be chosen for dumping down all the Kaffirs of the town passes my comprehension...the Town Council must withdraw the Kaffirs from the Location.” »Reference: CWMG, Vol I, pp. 244–245 • His description of black inmates: “Only a degree removed from the animal.” Also, “Kaffirs are as a rule uncivilized - the convicts even more so. They are troublesome, very dirty and live almost like animals.” - Mar. 7, 1908 »Reference: CWMG, Vol VIII, pp. 135-136 Gandhi's adultery, and perversion, and the taking advantage of one of his cult members: gandhi became a celebate while he was at his ashram (retreat), he bacame a cult figure and many women and men joined his cult. He used to test his celebacy by making young naked women lie on top of him (never his wife). It's fair to say he failed his test on each occassion!! During his Noakhali tour of 1946, Gandhi used to sleep with the nineteen-year-old Manu. When Nirmal Bose, his Bengali interpreter, saw this he protested, asserting that the experiments must be having bad psychological effects on the girl. In his Book My Days with Gandhi, published in 1953 with great difficulty and at his own expense, he offers a Freudian interpretation to Gandhi's experiments. It is generally believed that Gandhi started sleeping with women toward the close of his life. According to Sushila Nayar, he started much earlier. However, at the time he called it 'nature cure.' She told Mehta, 'long before Manu came into the picture I used to sleep with him just as I would with my mother. He might say my back aches. Put some pressure on it. So I might put some pressure on it or lie down on his back and he might just go to sleep. In the early days there was no question of calling this a brahamacharya experiment. It was just part of nature cure. Later on, when people started asking questions about his physical contact with women, the idea of brahamacharya experiments was developed. Don't ask me any more questions about brahamacharya experiments. There is nothing to say, unless you have a dirty mind like Bose.' From: Mahatma Gandhi and His Apostles Gandhi was a liar and a fraud, publically he announced it was ok for hindus and muslims to marry, but he never allowed his son to marry his muslim girlfriend, he went as far to disown him: Gandhi’s influential hand was also evident in Manilal’s decision to marry. He had wanted to marry Fatima Gool, a Muslim from the Cape, but Gandhi objected because she was not Hindu: http://www.peaceworkmagazine.org/gandhi-s-...rican-dissident Gandhi's hand in a murder cover up: In 1921, Gandhi helped cover up the murder of an American citizen by Gandhians who were rioting during the second Satyagraha movement. The murdered man was William Francis Doherty, an engineer working in Bombay. His wife dictated a sworn statement to a Los Angeles notary in 1929. http://gandhism.net/williamdoherty.php http://gandhism.net/andrews.php MORE ON GANDHI THE RACIST: http://gandhism.net/gandhiandblacks.php The Durban Post Office One of Gandhi's major "achievements" in South Africa was to promote racial segregation by refusing to share a post office door with the black natives. Sergeant Major Gandhi Learn how Gandhi became a Sgt. Major in the British Army and eagerly participated in the 1906 British war against the black Zulus. Gandhi and South African Blacks Gandhi wrote extensively about his experiences with the blacks of South Africa. He always termed them "Kaffirs" and his writings reveal a deep-seated disdain for these African natives. Introduction Gandhi is idolized by people of all political stripes around the world, and his life is popularly considered a model for the American Civil Rights Movement. U.S. Senator Harry Reid called Gandhi “a giant in morality.” Former U.S president Ronald Reagan signed a bill creating a “National Day of Recognition for Mohandas K. Gandhi.” South African leader Nelson Mandela called Gandhi “the archetypal anticolonial revolutionary” whose “nonviolent resistance inspired anticolonial and antiracist movements.” African-American Senator Obama reportedly keeps a picture of Gandhi in his office. Martin Luther King, Jr. associated Gandhi with the African-American struggle against inequality, segregation, and racism. Reverend King believed Gandhi was “inspired by the vision of humanity evolving toward...peace and harmony.” When the Indian government paid to place a statue of Gandhi at the Martin Luther King, Jr. Memorial Center in Atlanta, Mrs. King spoke about her husband's admiration for Gandhi, saying, “It is gratifying and appropriate that this statue is installed in this historic site.” Unfortunately, these people were never acquainted with the real, historical Mohandas Gandhi, who was a virulent racist. Gandhi was hired to work as an attorney for wealthy Indian traders in South Africa. He moved there in 1893 and soon helped establish the Natal Indian Congress. The goal of this Congress was to “promote concord and harmony among the Indians and Europeans residing in the colony [of South Africa].” Instead of concord and harmony with the blacks, however, Gandhi promoted racial segregation. The major achievement of the Congress was the successful attempt, spear-headed by Gandhi, to fix the Durban post office “problem.” This issue is discussed in-depth here. In 1904, Gandhi founded The Indian Opinion, a newspaper which he used as a political tool to promote his personal views. It is in this paper, which Gandhi edited until 1914, that we find a record of his extensive anti-black activism and opinions. A list of anti-black quotes from his writings, in which he invariably refers to the South African natives as “Kaffirs,” can be found here. Gandhi's opinion of the native is best summarized when he calls them people “whose occupation is hunting, and whose sole ambition is to collect a certain number of cattle to buy a wife with and, then, pass his life in indolence and nakedness.” Finally, in 1906, Gandhi cheered on the British as they waged a war on the black Zulus. He then volunteered for military service himself, attaining the rank of Sgt. Major in the British Army and assisting the war on blacks in every way he could. You can learn more about this here. One of the best-known heroes of the American Civil Rights Movement was Rosa Parks, the black lady who refused to sit at the back of the bus. While Gandhi is upheld as a champion of equality, the truth is that he probably would not even have allowed Mrs. Parks on the bus in the first place. He proudly said that among South African Indians, the “co-mingling of the coloured and white races...is practically unknown.” Gandhi also boasted, “If there is one thing, which the Indian cherishes, more than any other, it is the purity of type.” People remember Rev. King for his most famous speech, in which he said: “I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.” To associate Martin Luther King, Jr. with Mohandas Gandhi, whose dream was to clear the way for Apartheid in South Africa, is an insult to the memory of Rev. King. GANDHI'S BIGGEST AND WORST TRIUMPH - THE SLAVERY OF THE DALITS, GANDHI'S NAZI IDEOLOGY During the freedon movement of India, there were many other freedom movements, inlcuding that of muslims to pakistan. Gandhi was a firm believer of hindutva, or the varna system of hinduism. This system was formed many centurys ago where by said invaders (aryans) came to the indus vallet inhabited by lesser intelligent small aboriginal types. In order to keep there blood lines seperate (nazi-aryan connection) and enslaves the natives, they devised the varna system, whereby they would be top of the chain (4th born) and the natives (1st born), the natives could only get to heaven if they are 4th born and can only progress to 4th born if they fullfil there duties as slaves when they are 1st, 2nd and 3rd born. Unlike in Germany whereby the aryans were a majority and hence vanquishing everyone else was not a problem, in this land the bhramins\aryans were in a minority and required slaves and manual labour. Those tribes that were skilled labour were 2nd born and the 3rd born were given to warrior tribes which were also foriegn!! Obviously, the 1st born untouchables were treated like shit, did all the shitty work etc, and unfortunately it was there religious duty to be happy doing so!! Now during Gandhi's time a gentlement Dr Ambedkar lead a revolt of 1st born dalits, which makes up over 75% of the population, the thought of these guys taking by gandhi was firstly one of disgust, because they are untouchable plus it would undermine his authority and the financial implications (how would the rich and prosperous like him and his buddies live, who would do all the shitty jobs etc). Gandhi then had a plan, he decided to open an ashram, where a white cloth, this was very intentional and symbolic, he decide to live of the land and take in a young dalit boy!! His message was, don't asstrocise dalits, they are only doing there religious duty, and hence made dalits more appealable to wider india and tried to make dalits change there mind!! This was very clever, dalits would still remian dalits and still do there religious duties but the rest of society will not call them untouchable and let them get in harmony hence keepng the legacy of first born and the varna system slavery method intact!! [1] 1920: "I believe that caste has saved Hinduism from disintegration. But like every other institution it has suffered from excrescences. I consider the four divisions alone to be fundamental, natural and essential. The innumerable sub-castes are sometimes a convenience, often a hindrance. The sooner there is fusion, the better.... 2] 1920: "The beauty of the caste system is that it does not base itself upon distinctions of wealth-possessions. Money, as history has proved, is the greatest disruptive force in the world.... Caste is but an extension of the principle of the family. Both are governed by blood and heredity [3] 1921-22: "I believe that if Hindu society has been able to stand, it is because it is founded on the caste system.... A community which can create the caste system must be said to possess unique power of organization.... "To destroy the caste system and adopt the Western European social system means that Hindus must give up the principle of hereditary occupation which is the soul of the caste system. [The] hereditary principle is an eternal principle. To change it is to create disorder.... It will be a chaos if every day a Brahmin is to be changed into a Shudra and a Shudra is to be changed into a Brahmin. The caste system is a natural order of society.... I am opposed to all those who are out to destroy the caste system." (A, IX, 275f) 5] 1925: "There is no harm if a person belonging to one varna acquires the knowledge or science and art specialized in by persons belonging to other varnas. But as far as the way of earning his living his concerned, he must follow the occupation of the varna to which he belongs, which means he must follow the hereditary profession of his forefathers. Ambedkar rose to high heights, he decided to put forward dalit candidates for election knowing full well that dalits make the majority and his people would win. Gandhi like a cunning fox decided to go on hunger strike to stop Ambedkar. Ambedkar knowing full well that if Gandhi dies there will be civil war between dalits and the rest as they will balme him and his policies for his death, he rescinded, and once again Gandhi enslaves the first born!!! Ambedkar was very critical of Gandhi: Ambedkar criticized the Indian National Congress and its leader Mohandas (Mahatma) Gandhi, whom he accused of reducing the untouchable community to a figure of pathos. Ambedkar was also dissatisfied with the failures of British rule, and advocated a political identity for untouchables separate from both the Congress and the British. At a Depressed Classes Conference on August 8, 1930 Ambedkar outlined his political vision, insisting that the safety of the Depressed Classes hinged on their being independent of the Government and the Congress both: We must shape our course ourselves and by ourselves... Political power cannot be a panacea for the ills of the Depressed Classes. Their salvation lies in their social elevation. They must cleanse their evil habits. They must improve their bad ways of living.... They must be educated.... There is a great necessity to disturb their pathetic contentment and to instill into them that divine discontent which is the spring of all elevation.[2] In this speech, Ambedkar criticized the Salt Satyagraha launched by Gandhi and the Congress. Ambedkar's criticisms and political work had made him very unpopular with orthodox Hindus, as well as with many Congress politicians who had earlier condemned untouchability and worked against discrimination across India. This was largely because these "liberal" politicians usually stopped short of advocating full equality for untouchables. When the British agreed with Ambedkar and announced the awarding of separate electorates, Gandhi began a fast-unto-death while imprisoned in the Yeravada Central Jail of Pune in 1932. Exhorting orthodox Hindu society to eliminate discrimination and untouchability, Gandhi asked for the political and social unity of Hindus. Gandhi's fast provoked great public support across India, and orthodox Hindu leaders, Congress politicians and activists such as Madan Mohan Malaviya and Palwankar Baloo organized joint meetings with Ambedkar and his supporters at Yeravada. Fearing a communal reprisal and killings of untouchables in the event of Gandhi's death, Ambedkar agreed under massive coercion from the supporters of Gandhi to drop the demand for separate electorates, and settled for a reservation of seats. This agreement, which saw Gandhi end his fast, in the end achieved more representation for the untouchables, while dropping the demand for separate electorates that was promised through the British Communal Award prior to Ambedkar's meeting with Gandhi. Ambedkar was to later criticise this fast of Gandhi as a gimmick to deny political rights to the untouchables and increase the coercion he had faced to give up the demand for separate electorates. SO GANDHI THE NAZI RACIST NEVER OCE OPPOSED CASTE SLAVERY, STIULL TODAY THERE IS NO EQUALITY FOR DALITS|UNTOUCHABLES People go about Mumbai killings and how 200 people were killed, but every day in mumbia over 200 dalit women are sold to the sex trade, over 200 dalit kids die of malnutrition and disease.......why because they are first born to the varna system, well done Gandhi!!!! I could go on for hours, Gandhi the politician has yet to be explored, India's partition, his fear of the mighty sikhs, his love of hitler but my fingers are hurting!! So Ultra, is the man whose statue you want....................or you still like your fuzzy wuzzy Gandhi, bollywoodised and glamourised. The only difference between him and Jebadiah Springfield is that Jebadiah might of been a crook but his legacy is dead, people can bring the best out of it, but Gandhi, his legacy remians, the enslavement of dalits, the freedom of the sikhs, the break up of many nations, many millions of people have died because of his direct an indirect actions!!!
BoneDog Posted 26 March 2009 Posted 26 March 2009 Ghandhi stood up against the oppressors and spoke for most people in his country. The people there were getting shit on and someone had to take a stand. He was a man
Dr The Singh Posted 26 March 2009 Posted 26 March 2009 Ghandhi stood up against the oppressors and spoke for most people in his country. The people there were getting shit on and someone had to take a stand. He was a man He was an eveant politician, Gordon Brown makes no lesser speeches then Gandhi!!! The majority were of the dalit community, changing of regime from british to indian made no difference to there lives, they are still untouchable!!! What he did was for hindutva!!!
Dr The Singh Posted 26 March 2009 Posted 26 March 2009 I blame Jade Goody... Did someone say free curry? I'm up for it... what do I have to do? Nothing, just go to the local Sikh temple, and go to the free kitchen!!! I blame Jade Goody aswell, only if she took the piss out of Gandhi instead of Shilpa
Dr The Singh Posted 26 March 2009 Posted 26 March 2009 Because it's fun and light hearted... Jade would have wanted it that way. It's because I love ripping Gandhi, I can't get enough of taking the piss out of that bold twat!!!
Dr The Singh Posted 26 March 2009 Posted 26 March 2009 Fascinating. Is this Sikh museum open for anyone to view or do you have to be accompanied? It seems strange that I pass it on many occasions and never even realised what it was. Are there English translations if you'll excuse my ignorance on this? It used to be a fulltime museum and open for all, alot of school trips and inter racial groups do visit, but due to funding I think you will have to ring and book a visit, and yes there's english translations!!
Flynny Posted 26 March 2009 Posted 26 March 2009 Aye up... grandfather 'goody' two-shoes is here. I reckon I've got a point but luckily we seem to be being outrageously controversial about Gandhi now... the egocentric cunt. (????) I'm actually going to do some reading up on this now. There must be books like this about Gandhi, like the one Christopher Hitchens wrote about Mother Teresa.
Dr The Singh Posted 26 March 2009 Posted 26 March 2009 I reckon I've got a point but luckily we seem to be being outrageously controversial about Gandhi now... the egocentric cunt. (????) I'm actually going to do some reading up on this now. There must be books like this about Gandhi, like the one Christopher Hitchens wrote about Mother Teresa. Every fooker has some failings about them, except me, but to call someone a 'mahatma' meaning god like and have so much wrong about them is totally disgusting, but unfortunatley these icons are political pawns people idolise them and use them to propagate there own sentiments and try to get people to conform!! In India, I would be arrested and imprisoned and called a Sikh terrorist for slandering Gandhi, there's loads of literature about Gandhi's dirty ways, non in India though!!!
Koke Posted 26 March 2009 Posted 26 March 2009 Singh, that was honestly quite fascinating. And about the curry, well to be honest last time I had a curry those Muslim ****ers tried to poison me. Either that or they make some absolute shit curries. I had stomach ache for 2 days.
Daggers Posted 26 March 2009 Posted 26 March 2009 What does a hindu?Lays eggs.... FCUKERS!!! If no one else is going to recognise this, I will.
Guest Bilo Posted 26 March 2009 Posted 26 March 2009 You having a laugh, Gandhi is a racist himself, let alone, a hypocrite, a adulterer, liar, conspirer, not really actions of a mohatma!! Again Ultra, another little lesson!!GANDHI ON NON-VIOLENCE • During a prayer speech: “If we had the atom bomb, we would have used it against the British.” - June 16, 1947 »Reference: Gandhi’s “The Last Phase”, Vol II, p. 326 To the British during WWII: “This manslaughter must be stopped. You are losing; if you persist, it will only result in greater bloodshed. Hitler is not a bad man.” »Reference: G.D. Birla’s “In the Shadow of the Mahatma”, p. 276 GANDHI ON BLACKS AND RACE RELATIONS • “A general belief seems to prevail in the colony that the Indians are little better, if at all, than the savages or natives of Africa. Even the children are taught to believe in that manner, with the result that the Indian is being dragged down to the position of a raw Kaffir.” »Reference: The Collected Works of Mahatma Gandhi, Government of India (CWMG), Vol I, p. 150 • Regarding forcible registration with the state of blacks: “One can understand the necessity for registration of Kaffirs who will not work.” »Reference: CWMG, Vol I, p. 105 • “Why, of all places in Johannesburg, the Indian Location should be chosen for dumping down all the Kaffirs of the town passes my comprehension...the Town Council must withdraw the Kaffirs from the Location.” »Reference: CWMG, Vol I, pp. 244–245 • His description of black inmates: “Only a degree removed from the animal.” Also, “Kaffirs are as a rule uncivilized - the convicts even more so. They are troublesome, very dirty and live almost like animals.” - Mar. 7, 1908 »Reference: CWMG, Vol VIII, pp. 135-136 Gandhi's adultery, and perversion, and the taking advantage of one of his cult members: gandhi became a celebate while he was at his ashram (retreat), he bacame a cult figure and many women and men joined his cult. He used to test his celebacy by making young naked women lie on top of him (never his wife). It's fair to say he failed his test on each occassion!! During his Noakhali tour of 1946, Gandhi used to sleep with the nineteen-year-old Manu. When Nirmal Bose, his Bengali interpreter, saw this he protested, asserting that the experiments must be having bad psychological effects on the girl. In his Book My Days with Gandhi, published in 1953 with great difficulty and at his own expense, he offers a Freudian interpretation to Gandhi's experiments. It is generally believed that Gandhi started sleeping with women toward the close of his life. According to Sushila Nayar, he started much earlier. However, at the time he called it 'nature cure.' She told Mehta, 'long before Manu came into the picture I used to sleep with him just as I would with my mother. He might say my back aches. Put some pressure on it. So I might put some pressure on it or lie down on his back and he might just go to sleep. In the early days there was no question of calling this a brahamacharya experiment. It was just part of nature cure. Later on, when people started asking questions about his physical contact with women, the idea of brahamacharya experiments was developed. Don't ask me any more questions about brahamacharya experiments. There is nothing to say, unless you have a dirty mind like Bose.' From: Mahatma Gandhi and His Apostles Gandhi was a liar and a fraud, publically he announced it was ok for hindus and muslims to marry, but he never allowed his son to marry his muslim girlfriend, he went as far to disown him: Gandhi’s influential hand was also evident in Manilal’s decision to marry. He had wanted to marry Fatima Gool, a Muslim from the Cape, but Gandhi objected because she was not Hindu: http://www.peaceworkmagazine.org/gandhi-s-...rican-dissident Gandhi's hand in a murder cover up: In 1921, Gandhi helped cover up the murder of an American citizen by Gandhians who were rioting during the second Satyagraha movement. The murdered man was William Francis Doherty, an engineer working in Bombay. His wife dictated a sworn statement to a Los Angeles notary in 1929. http://gandhism.net/williamdoherty.php http://gandhism.net/andrews.php MORE ON GANDHI THE RACIST: http://gandhism.net/gandhiandblacks.php The Durban Post Office One of Gandhi's major "achievements" in South Africa was to promote racial segregation by refusing to share a post office door with the black natives. Sergeant Major Gandhi Learn how Gandhi became a Sgt. Major in the British Army and eagerly participated in the 1906 British war against the black Zulus. Gandhi and South African Blacks Gandhi wrote extensively about his experiences with the blacks of South Africa. He always termed them "Kaffirs" and his writings reveal a deep-seated disdain for these African natives. Introduction Gandhi is idolized by people of all political stripes around the world, and his life is popularly considered a model for the American Civil Rights Movement. U.S. Senator Harry Reid called Gandhi “a giant in morality.” Former U.S president Ronald Reagan signed a bill creating a “National Day of Recognition for Mohandas K. Gandhi.” South African leader Nelson Mandela called Gandhi “the archetypal anticolonial revolutionary” whose “nonviolent resistance inspired anticolonial and antiracist movements.” African-American Senator Obama reportedly keeps a picture of Gandhi in his office. Martin Luther King, Jr. associated Gandhi with the African-American struggle against inequality, segregation, and racism. Reverend King believed Gandhi was “inspired by the vision of humanity evolving toward...peace and harmony.” When the Indian government paid to place a statue of Gandhi at the Martin Luther King, Jr. Memorial Center in Atlanta, Mrs. King spoke about her husband's admiration for Gandhi, saying, “It is gratifying and appropriate that this statue is installed in this historic site.” Unfortunately, these people were never acquainted with the real, historical Mohandas Gandhi, who was a virulent racist. Gandhi was hired to work as an attorney for wealthy Indian traders in South Africa. He moved there in 1893 and soon helped establish the Natal Indian Congress. The goal of this Congress was to “promote concord and harmony among the Indians and Europeans residing in the colony [of South Africa].” Instead of concord and harmony with the blacks, however, Gandhi promoted racial segregation. The major achievement of the Congress was the successful attempt, spear-headed by Gandhi, to fix the Durban post office “problem.” This issue is discussed in-depth here. In 1904, Gandhi founded The Indian Opinion, a newspaper which he used as a political tool to promote his personal views. It is in this paper, which Gandhi edited until 1914, that we find a record of his extensive anti-black activism and opinions. A list of anti-black quotes from his writings, in which he invariably refers to the South African natives as “Kaffirs,” can be found here. Gandhi's opinion of the native is best summarized when he calls them people “whose occupation is hunting, and whose sole ambition is to collect a certain number of cattle to buy a wife with and, then, pass his life in indolence and nakedness.” Finally, in 1906, Gandhi cheered on the British as they waged a war on the black Zulus. He then volunteered for military service himself, attaining the rank of Sgt. Major in the British Army and assisting the war on blacks in every way he could. You can learn more about this here. One of the best-known heroes of the American Civil Rights Movement was Rosa Parks, the black lady who refused to sit at the back of the bus. While Gandhi is upheld as a champion of equality, the truth is that he probably would not even have allowed Mrs. Parks on the bus in the first place. He proudly said that among South African Indians, the “co-mingling of the coloured and white races...is practically unknown.” Gandhi also boasted, “If there is one thing, which the Indian cherishes, more than any other, it is the purity of type.” People remember Rev. King for his most famous speech, in which he said: “I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.” To associate Martin Luther King, Jr. with Mohandas Gandhi, whose dream was to clear the way for Apartheid in South Africa, is an insult to the memory of Rev. King. GANDHI'S BIGGEST AND WORST TRIUMPH - THE SLAVERY OF THE DALITS, GANDHI'S NAZI IDEOLOGY During the freedon movement of India, there were many other freedom movements, inlcuding that of muslims to pakistan. Gandhi was a firm believer of hindutva, or the varna system of hinduism. This system was formed many centurys ago where by said invaders (aryans) came to the indus vallet inhabited by lesser intelligent small aboriginal types. In order to keep there blood lines seperate (nazi-aryan connection) and enslaves the natives, they devised the varna system, whereby they would be top of the chain (4th born) and the natives (1st born), the natives could only get to heaven if they are 4th born and can only progress to 4th born if they fullfil there duties as slaves when they are 1st, 2nd and 3rd born. Unlike in Germany whereby the aryans were a majority and hence vanquishing everyone else was not a problem, in this land the bhramins\aryans were in a minority and required slaves and manual labour. Those tribes that were skilled labour were 2nd born and the 3rd born were given to warrior tribes which were also foriegn!! Obviously, the 1st born untouchables were treated like shit, did all the shitty work etc, and unfortunately it was there religious duty to be happy doing so!! Now during Gandhi's time a gentlement Dr Ambedkar lead a revolt of 1st born dalits, which makes up over 75% of the population, the thought of these guys taking by gandhi was firstly one of disgust, because they are untouchable plus it would undermine his authority and the financial implications (how would the rich and prosperous like him and his buddies live, who would do all the shitty jobs etc). Gandhi then had a plan, he decided to open an ashram, where a white cloth, this was very intentional and symbolic, he decide to live of the land and take in a young dalit boy!! His message was, don't asstrocise dalits, they are only doing there religious duty, and hence made dalits more appealable to wider india and tried to make dalits change there mind!! This was very clever, dalits would still remian dalits and still do there religious duties but the rest of society will not call them untouchable and let them get in harmony hence keepng the legacy of first born and the varna system slavery method intact!! [1] 1920: "I believe that caste has saved Hinduism from disintegration. But like every other institution it has suffered from excrescences. I consider the four divisions alone to be fundamental, natural and essential. The innumerable sub-castes are sometimes a convenience, often a hindrance. The sooner there is fusion, the better.... 2] 1920: "The beauty of the caste system is that it does not base itself upon distinctions of wealth-possessions. Money, as history has proved, is the greatest disruptive force in the world.... Caste is but an extension of the principle of the family. Both are governed by blood and heredity [3] 1921-22: "I believe that if Hindu society has been able to stand, it is because it is founded on the caste system.... A community which can create the caste system must be said to possess unique power of organization.... "To destroy the caste system and adopt the Western European social system means that Hindus must give up the principle of hereditary occupation which is the soul of the caste system. [The] hereditary principle is an eternal principle. To change it is to create disorder.... It will be a chaos if every day a Brahmin is to be changed into a Shudra and a Shudra is to be changed into a Brahmin. The caste system is a natural order of society.... I am opposed to all those who are out to destroy the caste system." (A, IX, 275f) 5] 1925: "There is no harm if a person belonging to one varna acquires the knowledge or science and art specialized in by persons belonging to other varnas. But as far as the way of earning his living his concerned, he must follow the occupation of the varna to which he belongs, which means he must follow the hereditary profession of his forefathers. Ambedkar rose to high heights, he decided to put forward dalit candidates for election knowing full well that dalits make the majority and his people would win. Gandhi like a cunning fox decided to go on hunger strike to stop Ambedkar. Ambedkar knowing full well that if Gandhi dies there will be civil war between dalits and the rest as they will balme him and his policies for his death, he rescinded, and once again Gandhi enslaves the first born!!! Ambedkar was very critical of Gandhi: Ambedkar criticized the Indian National Congress and its leader Mohandas (Mahatma) Gandhi, whom he accused of reducing the untouchable community to a figure of pathos. Ambedkar was also dissatisfied with the failures of British rule, and advocated a political identity for untouchables separate from both the Congress and the British. At a Depressed Classes Conference on August 8, 1930 Ambedkar outlined his political vision, insisting that the safety of the Depressed Classes hinged on their being independent of the Government and the Congress both: We must shape our course ourselves and by ourselves... Political power cannot be a panacea for the ills of the Depressed Classes. Their salvation lies in their social elevation. They must cleanse their evil habits. They must improve their bad ways of living.... They must be educated.... There is a great necessity to disturb their pathetic contentment and to instill into them that divine discontent which is the spring of all elevation.[2] In this speech, Ambedkar criticized the Salt Satyagraha launched by Gandhi and the Congress. Ambedkar's criticisms and political work had made him very unpopular with orthodox Hindus, as well as with many Congress politicians who had earlier condemned untouchability and worked against discrimination across India. This was largely because these "liberal" politicians usually stopped short of advocating full equality for untouchables. When the British agreed with Ambedkar and announced the awarding of separate electorates, Gandhi began a fast-unto-death while imprisoned in the Yeravada Central Jail of Pune in 1932. Exhorting orthodox Hindu society to eliminate discrimination and untouchability, Gandhi asked for the political and social unity of Hindus. Gandhi's fast provoked great public support across India, and orthodox Hindu leaders, Congress politicians and activists such as Madan Mohan Malaviya and Palwankar Baloo organized joint meetings with Ambedkar and his supporters at Yeravada. Fearing a communal reprisal and killings of untouchables in the event of Gandhi's death, Ambedkar agreed under massive coercion from the supporters of Gandhi to drop the demand for separate electorates, and settled for a reservation of seats. This agreement, which saw Gandhi end his fast, in the end achieved more representation for the untouchables, while dropping the demand for separate electorates that was promised through the British Communal Award prior to Ambedkar's meeting with Gandhi. Ambedkar was to later criticise this fast of Gandhi as a gimmick to deny political rights to the untouchables and increase the coercion he had faced to give up the demand for separate electorates. SO GANDHI THE NAZI RACIST NEVER OCE OPPOSED CASTE SLAVERY, STIULL TODAY THERE IS NO EQUALITY FOR DALITS|UNTOUCHABLES People go about Mumbai killings and how 200 people were killed, but every day in mumbia over 200 dalit women are sold to the sex trade, over 200 dalit kids die of malnutrition and disease.......why because they are first born to the varna system, well done Gandhi!!!! I could go on for hours, Gandhi the politician has yet to be explored, India's partition, his fear of the mighty sikhs, his love of hitler but my fingers are hurting!! So Ultra, is the man whose statue you want....................or you still like your fuzzy wuzzy Gandhi, bollywoodised and glamourised. The only difference between him and Jebadiah Springfield is that Jebadiah might of been a crook but his legacy is dead, people can bring the best out of it, but Gandhi, his legacy remians, the enslavement of dalits, the freedom of the sikhs, the break up of many nations, many millions of people have died because of his direct an indirect actions!!! Really fascinating stuff Singhy, I'm ashamed to admit that I was ignorant of all this but now intend to do some reading of my own on the subject. Perhaps the deification of him across the world makes any questioning of his legacy tantamount to blasphemy, but it's good to know that not everybody subscribes to what you describe as the Bollywood view of Gandhi. Great post.
BoneDog Posted 26 March 2009 Posted 26 March 2009 He was an eveant politician, Gordon Brown makes no lesser speeches then Gandhi!!!The majority were of the dalit community, changing of regime from british to indian made no difference to there lives, they are still untouchable!!! What he did was for hindutva!!! Yes I agree in some way. But I think he was the better of two options. I don't idolise him. I don't really understand what's going on here? Are people trying to say Ghandhi was a violent hater?
Dr The Singh Posted 26 March 2009 Posted 26 March 2009 Yes I agree in some way. But I think he was the better of two options. I don't idolise him. I don't really understand what's going on here? Are people trying to say Ghandhi was a violent hater? Gandhi's intervention had very little to do with the freedom of the indus valley, Britian were skint and needed money, the muslims, dalits, sikhs and hindus were all tasting freedom as the Brits were so weak, the Congress and Brits used each other to make a highly desirable departure at the cost of 50 million dollars, infact 80 million because unlike coward India the Pikisatani's refused to pay the brits and hence Gandhi crapping his pants at the thought of the brits returning paid there amount aswell!! Infact India could have been freed after world war one, but Gandhi and Congress were not at the forefront and oppposed the proposal. Funnily enough the selfish Gandhi said he would not gain freedom with the use of violence, someone should have asked the cooont what happened when they did get freedom, there was violent uprising everywhere, but as he and his minions were at the forefront they didn't seem to mind!!!
BoneDog Posted 26 March 2009 Posted 26 March 2009 Gandhi's intervention had very little to do with the freedom of the indus valley, Britian were skint and needed money, the muslims, dalits, sikhs and hindus were all tasting freedom as the Brits were so weak, the Congress and Brits used each other to make a highly desirable departure at the cost of 50 million dollars, infact 80 million because unlike coward India the Pikisatani's refused to pay the brits and hence Gandhi crapping his pants at the thought of the brits returning paid there amount aswell!!Infact India could have been freed after world war one, but Gandhi and Congress were not at the forefront and oppposed the proposal. Funnily enough the selfish Gandhi said he would not gain freedom with the use of violence, someone should have asked the cooont what happened when they did get freedom, there was violent uprising everywhere, but as he and his minions were at the forefront they didn't seem to mind!!! Congress?
Guest Bilo Posted 26 March 2009 Posted 26 March 2009 The figures related to internet votes, which could have come from anywhere on the planet.No self-respecting elected authority would have been guided by them. I only referred to them to kill the myth, which has resurfaced on this thread, that the council was acting against the public's wishes. You've just admitted that the figures you posted relate to internet votes, possibly the most unreliable method of gauging public opinion of them all. So they can hardly be seen as a concrete indicator of Leicester residents' opinion on the statue can they? Therefore, they do not 'kill the myth' that the council was acting against the wishes of the public, as we haven't seen a reliable indication of the public's wishes.
Dr The Singh Posted 26 March 2009 Posted 26 March 2009 Congress? They were the leading political party, there members at the time are national hereos, they, gandhi and the brits were the main conspirers in this true to history disaster! Britain wanted the money quick, lord mountbatten had 2 months to get it done, this caused a disaster of biblical, hinducal, sikhical, islamical proportion, over 1 million people died, 2 million displaced, but that's not the end of it, while Britain just fooked off with the money, the congress went about fooking things up even more, went back on it's promises and the the logo hindustan for hindus was used and hence today Kashmir, Punjab and another 9 states want freedom, the policies of congress or any Indian political hasn't changed!
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