Absolute *** of our time Pt.MXXVI

[Guest MattP]

The 2011 census (i.e. politically neutral source, after Labour had left govt) reports that, in England & Wales, there were 86,000 people who spoke Somali as their main language: http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171778_297002.pdf

 

That doesn't include the under-3s, Scotland/N.Ireland or people who failed to complete the census (though I think they might adjust data to allow for the latter). That suggests the true figure may well be over 100,000, but probably nowhere near 200,000....still a lot, even if it is a small percentage of the population (0.2% of population) 

 

It's estimated 115,000 residing in the UK in 2010 according to the Office for National Statistics

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somalis_in_the_United_Kingdom

 

Back to the point though why are there so many here? How does an island like ours end up with so many (even if it's only 80,000 bare minimum) people from a West African coastline compared to the rest of Europe? People a lot less 'racist' than me will be asking these questions a lot in the future so someone is going to need to come with some answers as to why it happened.

 

Netherlands: 34,631 (2013);^[2]Sweden: 21,597 (2007);^[3]Norway: 19,656 (2007);^[4]Denmark: 16,550 (2008);^[5] and Finland: 14,045 (2011).^[6]

Edited 25 September 2013 by MattP

[indierich06]

No of course, it's only the extremists, they make up a tiny percentage of muslims, the rest of them are all really nice. Some of my best friends are muslims. Christians commit atrocities too. You can't blame Muslims. All religions attract their fair share of nutjobs. Nothing unusual about Islam. Just the media only report when its a Muslim killing babies or chopping off people's heads in the street. When Christians do it the media doesn't mention it. Nothing wrong with Islam. Muslims are innocent. We should sympathise with them more, maybe give them more space in our country, give them free money and education, bend over backwards for them. Oh god please, they've done nothing wrong. I love Muslims! I hate white people! It's the whites what's to blame. We should punish ourselves. Ten, no twenty lashes, administered by a Muslim. I cant believe white people let this happen. Politicians should go to jail for not doing more to stop Muslims from continuously going on sick killing sprees. They can't help it! White people made them do it. It's just the media. White people kill kids with machine guns in shopping malls too. Happens all the time. Nothing wrong with Islam. Some of my best friends are Muslim. They are really nice. They haven't said anything about wanting to kill my kids so I know they're really good people.

 

Spot on. The rest was incoherant nonsense though.

[Alf Bentley]

It's estimated 115,000 residing in the UK in 2010 according to the Office for National Statistics

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somalis_in_the_United_Kingdom

 

Back to the point though why are there so many here? How does an island like ours end up with so many (even if it's only 80,000 bare minimum) people from a West African coastline compared to the rest of Europe? People a lot less 'racist' than me will be asking these questions a lot in the future so someone is going to need to come with some answers as to why it happened.

 

Netherlands: 34,631 (2013);^[2]Sweden: 21,597 (2007);^[3]Norway: 19,656 (2007);^[4]Denmark: 16,550 (2008);^[5] and Finland: 14,045 (2011).^[6]

 

I don't have an established view on this, but your Wiki article explains it quite thoroughly: Some historical British connection via a local protectorate, trade and military ties....but, of course, the main flow has been refugees since Somalia descended into chaos. It seems that the flow was initially to Scandinavia & Netherlands, but partly switched to UK (anti-Muslim climate in NL, presumably stricter controls in Scandinavia).

 

However, do your other figures show numbers of Somalis in Netherlands, Sweden etc? If so, given that each of those countries have populations that are between 10% and 25% of the UK population, they would all have more, proportionately. Any figures for France, Germany etc? I know that France has about twice as many immigrants as us (mainly North Africans), while Germany took in at least 1 million refugees from the Balkans wars in the 1990s....DK overall comparative figures of stats re. Somalis, though.

 

The big story might be the scale of the population movements Europewide, not just to the UK (though the latter is of more direct concern to us, of course). What this all means and what should be done about it is another matter....

[Rincewind]

Spot on. The rest was incoherant nonsense though.

Yes I was wondering where it was going and thought he had had a brain transplant until I read on. I gave up halfway.

[Finnaldo]

I'd like to make all religion private, I get annoyed at not being able to walk near the clock centre without someone trying to get you to read their religious text.

That sounds pretty much like a Atheist version of most Islamic countries.

It's remarkable how Muslims are antagonised the way they are. I'd imagine most people didn't want to exile all Irish nationals during the troubles. My grandad was Irish. Does that mean I'm a suspected IRA member? Should I apologise for what the IRA did?

Perhaps had we not invaded their land during the crusades, or had an atheist U.S.S.R not invaded it simply to expand, the minority of extremists may not be so volatile towards Western culture.

[Guest MattP]

I don't have an established view on this, but your Wiki article explains it quite thoroughly: Some historical British connection via a local protectorate, trade and military ties....but, of course, the main flow has been refugees since Somalia descended into chaos. It seems that the flow was initially to Scandinavia & Netherlands, but partly switched to UK (anti-Muslim climate in NL, presumably stricter controls in Scandinavia).

 

However, do your other figures show numbers of Somalis in Netherlands, Sweden etc? If so, given that each of those countries have populations that are between 10% and 25% of the UK population, they would all have more, proportionately. Any figures for France, Germany etc? I know that France has about twice as many immigrants as us (mainly North Africans), while Germany took in at least 1 million refugees from the Balkans wars in the 1990s....DK overall comparative figures of stats re. Somalis, though.

 

The big story might be the scale of the population movements Europewide, not just to the UK (though the latter is of more direct concern to us, of course). What this all means and what should be done about it is another matter....

 

Why was the flow concentrated there though? That's what I can't understand. Who chooses this and why?

 

That sounds pretty much like a Atheist version of most Islamic countries.

It's remarkable how Muslims are antagonised the way they are. I'd imagine most people didn't want to exile all Irish nationals during the troubles. My grandad was Irish. Does that mean I'm a suspected IRA member? Should I apologise for what the IRA did?

Perhaps had we not invaded their land during the crusades, or had an atheist U.S.S.R not invaded it simply to expand, the minority of extremists may not be so volatile towards Western culture.

 

Drivel. My Mum is Irish as well. Nothing to do with anything, nonsense argument. The republican movement is far detatched from what Sunni Islamists do is so far apart it's not worth talking about.

 

If you actually do believe that they have a right to feel this way due to the crusades (so I also assume I am entitled to be attacking Central Europe and the Spanish can run riot over North Africa in your eyes - we shouldn't be allowed to) surely we should be completely stopping immigration from any countries we have invaded over the years considering the problems it's obviously going to cause?

 

I've heard some excuses trotted out for people brought up in the West to commit atrocities but the Crusades is taking it to another level.

 

Who can I attack for the Ottoman and Roman Empires?

Edited 25 September 2013 by MattP

[Rincewind]

That sounds pretty much like a Atheist version of most Islamic countries.

It's remarkable how Muslims are antagonised the way they are. I'd imagine most people didn't want to exile all Irish nationals during the troubles. My grandad was Irish. Does that mean I'm a suspected IRA member? Should I apologise for what the IRA did?

Perhaps had we not invaded their land during the crusades, or had an atheist U.S.S.R not invaded it simply to expand, the minority of extremists may not be so volatile towards Western culture.

The only ones I see reading religious text are the ones that tell you you are going to hell. I don't think they are Muslims.

I just ignore them. They are never going to convert me so why does it matter.

[Alf Bentley]

It's estimated 115,000 residing in the UK in 2010 according to the Office for National Statistics

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somalis_in_the_United_Kingdom

 

Back to the point though why are there so many here? How does an island like ours end up with so many (even if it's only 80,000 bare minimum) people from a West African coastline compared to the rest of Europe? People a lot less 'racist' than me will be asking these questions a lot in the future so someone is going to need to come with some answers as to why it happened.

 

Netherlands: 34,631 (2013);^[2]Sweden: 21,597 (2007);^[3]Norway: 19,656 (2007);^[4]Denmark: 16,550 (2008);^[5] and Finland: 14,045 (2011).^[6]

 

Why was the flow concentrated there though? That's what I can't understand. Who chooses this and why?

 

Looks like you've got the topic sorted for your politics PhD thesis, Matt... 

 

Interesting - and important - questions, but I've got to work, and then go to the pub. Sorry for the (temporary) lack of commitment.

[Bobby Hundreds]

Imagine getting shot in the face for not knowing who the mother of the son of the flying spaghetti monster was.

[Guest MattP]

Looks like you've got the topic sorted for your politics PhD thesis, Matt... 

 

Interesting - and important - questions, but I've got to work, and then go to the pub. Sorry for the (temporary) lack of commitment.

 

No problem, I should be doing the same, have a good drink.

[Smudge]

Imagine getting shot in the face for not knowing who the mother of the son of the flying spaghetti monster was.

Arggghh! 'e ad it comin'

[Zingari]

Imagine getting shot in the face for not knowing who the mother of the son of the flying spaghetti monster was.

Could be a new idea for an extreme TV quiz game show. Audiences are getting fed up with cash prizes . How about one dedicated to the best contestants avoiding mutilation? 

[I am Rod Hull]

Could be a new idea for an extreme TV quiz game show. Audiences are getting fed up with cash prizes . How about one dedicated to the best contestants avoiding mutilation? 

 

Great idea, i`d go on that.

 

Just hope they dont ask me who Nick Clegg is 

[Zingari]

Great idea, i`d go on that.

 

Just hope they dont ask me who Nick Clegg is 

It's bound to be multi choice , the other pics will probably be Nora Batty and Auntie Wainwright 

you'll be ok 

[I am Rod Hull]

It's bound to be multi choice , the other pics will probably be Nora Batty and Auntie Wainwright 

you'll be ok 

 

If one of them is Compo i`m fooked 

[Harry - LCFC]

You can't blame Kenyan or Somalian education when some of the perpetrators are western born and bred. Examples of western educated terrorists abound, so I don't really agree that improving education is the answer.

 

I still think it works in the long term. You need generations of good schooling for people to drop this kind of behaviour. Discrimination against black people is still not gone in America but it has faded over time as the population becomes more intelligent and as people interact more with each other.

[Guest MattP]

I still think it works in the long term. You need generations of good schooling for people to drop this kind of behaviour. Discrimination against black people is still not gone in America but it has faded over time as the population becomes more intelligent and as people interact more with each other.

 

That's a dubious statement for Britain and America over the last 50 years.

[Bobby Hundreds]

Could be a new idea for an extreme TV quiz game show. Audiences are getting fed up with cash prizes . How about one dedicated to the best contestants avoiding mutilation? 

 

How about everyone in the world gets asked a question from Trivial Pursuit, you get to choose your own topic and if you get the answer wrong you are shot in the back of the head on the spot?

 

Ask for the entertainment category and you have to answer 10 questions correctly.

[Zingari]

How about everyone in the world gets asked a question from Trivial Pursuit, you get to choose your own topic and if you get the answer wrong you are shot in the back of the head on the spot?

 

Ask for the entertainment category and you have to answer 10 questions correctly.

Phew that's a bit extreme .

I was going to start with shaving heads , extracting teeth, pulling out fingernails ,  etc before it went that far. 

 

 

Actually i think they've been doing shows like this in Japan for years now, 

[Kitchandro]

That sounds pretty much like a Atheist version of most Islamic countries.

It's remarkable how Muslims are antagonised the way they are. I'd imagine most people didn't want to exile all Irish nationals during the troubles. My grandad was Irish. Does that mean I'm a suspected IRA member? Should I apologise for what the IRA did?

Perhaps had we not invaded their land during the crusades, or had an atheist U.S.S.R not invaded it simply to expand, the minority of extremists may not be so volatile towards Western culture.

 

But Irish people are normal when they're not terrorists. Muslims are backward and strange whether they're terrorists or not.

 

You're last sentence where you're clearly trying to justify what Muslim extremists are like is unacceptable. We can't control what the Western world did years ago, we can't even control what our governments do now. What the hell has all that stuff got to do with innocent people?

 

British people are very tolerant so any problems Muslims have is based on their own hang ups about how Western people live their lives.

[Finnegan]

But Irish people are normal when they're not terrorists. Muslims are backward and strange whether they're terrorists or not.

You're last sentence where you're clearly trying to justify what Muslim extremists are like is unacceptable. We can't control what the Western world did years ago, we can't even control what our governments do now. What the hell has all that stuff got to do with innocent people?

British people are very tolerant so any problems Muslims have is based on their own hang ups about how Western people live their lives.

... Wow.

[Rincewind]

The papers would be so boring if they printed good news about different cultures. People would have nobody to blame.

[Guest MattP]

... Wow.

 

 

Seriously? What's the fuss about?

[Guest MattP]

The papers would be so boring if they printed good news about different cultures. People would have nobody to blame.

 

Yeah. How dare the papers keep reporting on these massacres that are killing hundreds of people?

 

We should brush that under the carpet and put a woman in a burka on the front page donating a tin of beans to Down and Out instead.

Edited 26 September 2013 by MattP

[Dan]

The papers would be so boring if they printed good news about different cultures. People would have nobody to blame.

 

We've still got Wellens.