Being beaten from outside the area

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

Is it just me who is a little uneasy with the amount of time we seem to concede goals from outside the area (I make it Seven = 2 at Fulham, 1 at Huddersfield, 1 at Oldham, 2 at Brighton and 1 against Bristol Rovers)?? I know Henderson wasn't at fault for Kuffours effort yesterday but in previous games Martin seems to have been beaten a lot from distance. What can we put it down to? His shortcomings, luck or does the fault lay with the defence?

I dont know if its a good thing or not if opposing managers tell teams to shoot on sight....?? haha or is this a completely pointless thread?!

[Ross-Kemp]

Is it just me who is a little uneasy with the amount of time we seem to concede goals from outside the area (I make it Seven = 2 at Fulham, 1 at Huddersfield, 1 at Oldham, 2 at Brighton and 1 against Bristol Rovers)?? I know Henderson wasn't at fault for Kuffours effort yesterday but in previous games Martin seems to have been beaten a lot from distance. What can we put it down to? His shortcomings, luck or does the fault lay with the defence?

I dont know if its a good thing or not if opposing managers tell teams to shoot on sight....?? haha or is this a completely pointless thread?!

Make a good point, maybe the defence should be closing them down, maybe the midfielders should be challenging. It is alarming to see how many we have conceded from outside the box.

[DB11]

The defence don't close down.

[Anish]

I'd blame it on a combination of the central midfielders not closing down and making challenges, and Martin's poor positioning/goalkeeping. Hopefully with Henderson back in goal one of those factors has been eliminated, but I'd still like to see the defence/midfield closing down players who are 20 yards out.

[syston_fox]

Make a good point, maybe the defence should be closing them down, maybe the midfielders should be challenging. It is alarming to see how many we have conceded from outside the box.

I think Martin's positioning was suspect at times and the two Fulham goes had massive deflections.

What concerns me more is the amount of wonder goals we seem to conceed in the goal in front of the family stand!

[carterfox90]

it's very alarming how poor we are at closing down both from the defense & from the non-existdent midfield seeing as our manager was a top defender ????????????? but taking nothing away from the rovers striker that was a great goal hendo had no chance

[JoeyB]

Too much of a Gap between defence and Midfield tbh

[Bert]

Is it just me who is a little uneasy with the amount of time we seem to concede goals from outside the area (I make it Seven = 2 at Fulham, 1 at Huddersfield, 1 at Oldham, 2 at Brighton and 1 against Bristol Rovers)?? I know Henderson wasn't at fault for Kuffours effort yesterday but in previous games Martin seems to have been beaten a lot from distance. What can we put it down to? His shortcomings, luck or does the fault lay with the defence?

I dont know if its a good thing or not if opposing managers tell teams to shoot on sight....?? haha or is this a completely pointless thread?!

Get it right mate. Not against Huddersfield it wasn't.

If they're strikes you can't save, what can you do? At least 3 of the goals were deflected.

[Heart-Shaped Fox]

i think the bristol goal was one of those things, but others i have seen should have been stopped

[Thracian]

Is it just me who is a little uneasy with the amount of time we seem to concede goals from outside the area (I make it Seven = 2 at Fulham, 1 at Huddersfield, 1 at Oldham, 2 at Brighton and 1 against Bristol Rovers)?? I know Henderson wasn't at fault for Kuffours effort yesterday but in previous games Martin seems to have been beaten a lot from distance. What can we put it down to? His shortcomings, luck or does the fault lay with the defence?

I dont know if its a good thing or not if opposing managers tell teams to shoot on sight....?? haha or is this a completely pointless thread?!

No it's not. It is an alarm call. And evidence that we are falling back too deep and giving a chance to the ball holder.

[Benji]

King taking too long to close down outside the area

[davieG]

The Bristol goal I thought Tunchev was a bit slow in responding to the potential situation. As for Martin being to blame a few were deflections and I have a recollection of the similar conversation last year only then it was Henderson taking the blame

[Father Ted]

I'd blame it on a combination of the central midfielders not closing down and making challenges, and Martin's poor positioning/goalkeeping. Hopefully with Henderson back in goal one of those factors has been eliminated, but I'd still like to see the defence/midfield closing down players who are 20 yards out.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

Well we've only conceeded 12 in the league so far so the question is, if we close down the shots outside the area more, would that mean there's a chance more clear cut chances could be created???

I wonder if it's just one of those things - 9 out of 10 shots from outside the box will be crap, but purhapse we've been having the 9 and they've be having

the 1?!?

[Thracian]

King taking too long to close down outside the area

Don't be fecking stupid. There's no way King wants to be defending on the edge of the penalty area and making a big crowd out of things. If four defenders cannot hold a back line 30-35 yards from goal and put in an immediate challenge to anyone gettingthe ball it's a poor do.

Some people will say anything to protect Tunchev and Kisnorbo from criticism but they've ben retreating too far and for no reason and we've paid for it.

.

[Corky]

Don't be fecking stupid. There's no way King wants to be defending on the edge of the penalty area and making a big crowd out of things. If four defenders cannot hold a back line 30-35 yards from goal and put in an immediate challenge to anyone gettingthe ball it's a poor do.

Some people will say anything to protect Tunchev and Kisdnoprbo from criticism but they've ben retreating too far and for no reason and we've paid for it.

.

Not him again

[DJ Barry Hammond]

Don't be fecking stupid. There's no way King wants to be defending on the edge of the penalty area and making a big crowd out of things. If four defenders cannot hold a back line 30-35 yards from goal and put in an immediate challenge to anyone gettingthe ball it's a poor do.

Some people will say anything to protect Tunchev and Kisnorbo from criticism but they've ben retreating too far and for no reason and we've paid for it.

.

Are you suggesting King's not a box to box player then???

And I'm sorry, but any defence holding a line up 30-35 yards from goal with the ball in their own half would be asking for trouble so i don't really see you're point?

As a defender, within reason, you'd be much happier with someone shooting from 35 yards, then threading a ball between the two centrebacks for a striker to have a chance from 12 or less yards.

The biggest reason for yesterday's goal was kissa's 50 pence peice header to give away the throw-in beforehand, but Tunchev was fairly tight, the lad just didn't lose control to enable a concerted tackle.

[Thracian]

Are you suggesting King's not a box to box player then???

And I'm sorry, but any defence holding a line up 30-35 yards from goal with the ball in their own half would be asking for trouble so i don't really see you're point?

As a defender, within reason, you'd be much happier with someone shooting from 35 yards, then threading a ball between the two centrebacks for a striker to have a chance from 12 or less yards.

The biggest reason for yesterday's goal was kissa's 50 pence peice header to give away the throw-in beforehand, but Tunchev was fairly tight, the lad just didn't lose control to enable a concerted tackle.

Exactly my reason for constantly saying defenders, particularly full-backs, need to be fast and mobile instead of pedestrian and with the turning circle of oil tankers.

Retreating should be a last resort and once you get closer than 30 yards the goalkeeper starts getting unsighted and people start getting in each other's way. It happens, of course but we should not willingly let it happen.

As for King he might wll go box to box in the event of free-kicks and corners but his prime responsiblility is to be available to pick up the first pass from the back line.

Are you saying a four man back line is not enough? For what? When, other than at set pieces, do you ever see opponents attacking us with four and five forwards?i

[Bert]

Don't be fecking stupid. There's no way King wants to be defending on the edge of the penalty area and making a big crowd out of things. If four defenders cannot hold a back line 30-35 yards from goal and put in an immediate challenge to anyone gettingthe ball it's a poor do.

Some people will say anything to protect Tunchev and Kisnorbo from criticism but they've ben retreating too far and for no reason and we've paid for it.

Pot. Kettle. Black. Comes to mind, as it's exactly the same thing you do with King.

[Benji]

wow

[Raj]

The Rovers goal was ronaldoesque quality .

Even Spider Kalac wouldnt have stopped that!

[Corky]

The Rovers goal was ronaldoesque quality .

Even Spider Kalac wouldnt have stopped that!

Don't mention that name again. His performance against Bolton still gives me nightmares.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

Exactly my reason for constantly saying defenders, particularly full-backs, need to be fast and mobile instead of pedestrian and with the turning circle of oil tankers.

Retreating should be a last resort and once you get closer than 30 yards the goalkeeper starts getting unsighted and people start getting in each other's way. It happens, of course but we should not willingly let it happen.

As for King he might wll go box to box in the event of free-kicks and corners but his prime responsiblility is to be available to pick up the first pass from the back line.

Are you saying a four man back line is not enough? For what? When, other than at set pieces, do you ever see opponents attacking us with four and five forwards?i

Ok i see defending isn't your specalist area.

1.) It is easier to defend the ball when it is in front of you than it is to watch it go over you're head, turn and chase after it. From 30-35 yards after a slow build up I would expect my back 4 to be around the edge of the area for your back line, with the midfield presuring the man with the ball.

2.) Pace is not required to be a great defender, it's quickness in the mind and position that counts. There are so many examples that i really can't be bothered to list them.

3.) As a central midfielder you job is to aid attack and defence, not just one or the other. King has not been given a 'free role' he is required to do his fair share of the defensive work as well as Oakley. If he is not doing this then that may suggest why players are getting time to set up long shots and score from them.

4.) Quite often opponents will have one midfielder attacking from deep, especially if only one is playing up front. If the midfielder is picking him up (so the back four can maintain shape and stop the ball being played into space for a striker to run onto.) then it would be handy for that midfielder to track that player until he can safely pass him on. Equally wide players need to be tracked, and if the opposite winger can track back and double up this aids a teams defensive play.

5.) A keeper worth his wage shouldn't be un-sighted that many times - in fact he can use players in front of him to his advantage as he can position himself according to the bit's of the goal not covered by the defender. (yes it may go past the defender, but it's a positioning technique.)

6.) One of the biggest crimes a defender can make is going for the ball when the ball is not their to be won. By tracking and shielding effectively a defence can make a team lose possesion without needing to put in a tackle.

7.) When defending you are coached to guide the play inside for two reasons - 1.) statisically most goals come from wide areas 2.) More of your players are inside which help reduce space and options

Defensively on Saturday the back four looked sound, Lambert hardly saw the ball and Kuffour's chances were limited to 3 shots from distance if i remember rightly. There were no obvious clear cut chances. If a team isn't getting chances and not pushing many bodies forward they will take 'pot shots' if they have time, and i think this may be the reason why a larger proportion of goals conceeded have been from outside the box.

[potter3]

Depending on the situation, and how high we're defedning it's the centre backs or center mids job. The exception is from a set piece that breaks free, every one in the box should push up and prevent it being played back in, but it also gives the opposition less time on the ball to take a shot.

[Daggers]

We should never concede goals, ever. Sack the board!