Wish I could steal £16k, get away with it and call it a mistake.

[davieG]

You need to attract a better calibre of people. Paying them 64k or whatever might sound like a good salary but people with leadership and expertise will work in the private sector for more than twice that. This leaves you with a bunch of egotistical power merchants who don't have the necessary talent to run a country.

I was jesting to some degree.

Alright in theory and I don't fundamentally disagree about £64K being an attractive salary, I was on £34k myself 5 years ago but I doubt those people, even with a higher salary would be interested in becoming MPs etc and you'd leave a void in industry where the genuine talents are needed.

Besides money is not the only motivator and is often a temporary one anyway what we need is talented people that are committed to the cause not necessarily as a career though more as a vocation.

I don't believe these people aren't fiddling because they need the money it's because they are fundamentally dishonest.

[filbertway]

I prefer it when the sun gets outraged about MP's claiming expenses for sandwhiches to be honest.

Touché on the robbery though, it has to be said.

[Zingari]

julie kirkbride is looking old and grey all of a sudden , she was a cracker not long back

she could do with some hair colour

( on expenses of course )

[Dr The Singh]

julie kirkbride is looking old and grey all of a sudden , she was a cracker not long back

she could do with some hair colour

( on expenses of course )

I'd giver one!!!

( on expenses of course )

[Zingari]

I'd giver one!!!

( on expenses of course )

oh yes indeed , but looking like this

or this ?

i think she's after a bit of sympathy

[Jon the Hat]

Mp's expenses are the drop in the ocean, not benefit fraud. If they all nicked £30k each a year that is £20m. Not a lot in comparison to the Billions lost in Benefit fraud.

The point really is trust. This has been a long time coming, becuase for many years they knew they couldn't put up Salaries to were they should be - bear in mind the civil servant in charge of the Fee office (overseeing these expenses) is paid £150k a year - they tacitly allowed a stack of expenses as a form of top up salary.

As it happens I earn as much as an MP and i can just about afford to live in a 2 bed house in Surrey. If I had to be in London 3-4 days and week i would certainly want those costs covered with expenses. On the other hand i would expect to feed myslef in the evenings if I was at a taxpayer funded flat, not have my food bills on expenses. There is a lot of taking the piss going on. Basic MP's salaries should be higher though, if only so they can concentrate on their jobs and not other means of making money.

[breadandcheese]

You need to attract a better calibre of people. Paying them 64k or whatever might sound like a good salary but people with leadership and expertise will work in the private sector for more than twice that. This leaves you with a bunch of egotistical power merchants who don't have the necessary talent to run a country.

I think there's a number of problems with this.

1) Crowding out theory. You pay the best people the money, the private sector either pays more, or whithers as it doesn't have the best people in place.

2) The assumption that the people right for the job would be working in the private sector for £128K a year, automatically precludes those of a lower income class as being the right people for the job.

3) Politics does not have to be a career option but a service to the country. i.e. why not have those who have earnt well in different areas of industry, serving in parliament with the benefit of their experience, rather than an MP whose qualification is having been a resaercher within the party.

The obvious answer to the MPs expenses problem is anything bought with taxpayer money is owned by the taxpayer. When an MP stands down or is voted out, they get the option to buy their second home and contents from the state at the going market rate.

[James.]

I think there's a number of problems with this.

1) Crowding out theory. You pay the best people the money, the private sector either pays more, or whithers as it doesn't have the best people in place.

2) The assumption that the people right for the job would be working in the private sector for £128K a year, automatically precludes those of a lower income class as being the right people for the job.

3) Politics does not have to be a career option but a service to the country. i.e. why not have those who have earnt well in different areas of industry, serving in parliament with the benefit of their experience, rather than an MP whose qualification is having been a resaercher within the party.

The obvious answer to the MPs expenses problem is anything bought with taxpayer money is owned by the taxpayer. When an MP stands down or is voted out, they get the option to buy their second home and contents from the state at the going market rate.

1. In a theoretical sense that's a valid point but I don't think it's particularly relevant here. I think there's enough people to be able to maintain private sector efficiency and innovation but also populate the government. Remember I also said I'd half the number of MP's. I'm not talking about doubling the salary of everyone in the public sector.

2. I'm not making judgements on the ability of lower income people to do the job of a politician. I'm remarking that high calibre, talented people are more likely to be drawn to the private sector where they feel they get rewarded for their ability.

3. I completely agree. The more politicians with industry experience covering diverse fields the better.

[Monk]

James I thought you weren't going to post during the day anymore!

[James.]

James I thought you weren't going to post during the day anymore!

It's... err... work related.

Good point actually. Thing is I've had quite a relaxing introduction to my new job. Pretty laidback over here, I really shouldn't slip back into old habits though.

[Tabou]

It's... err... work related.

Good point actually. Thing is I've had quite a relaxing introduction to my new job. Pretty laidback over here, I really shouldn't slip back into old habits though.

I lasted 6 months. Today is my first day back on FT.

Hip Hip.

[Manwell Pablo]

Why the hell any of us should obey laws and pay taxes at the bidding of the disreputable band of lowlife's who serve as our ministers and MPs is beyond me although there's plenty will still vote for them as if they've not already done harm enough.

To think there are some still condemn corruption in places like Africa! Graduates, presumably, of the Tony Blair/Gordon Brown School of Hypocrisy and Double Talk.

Thatcher stole my milk.

That was worth more than 16k to me, now I have weak bones and my teeth fall out.

Curse the Tories.

Curse you.

[Ultra]

Why the hell any of us should obey laws and pay taxes at the bidding of the disreputable band of lowlife's who serve as our ministers and MPs is beyond me although there's plenty will still vote for them as if they've not already done harm enough.

To think there are some still condemn corruption in places like Africa! Graduates, presumably, of the Tony Blair/Gordon Brown School of Hypocrisy and Double Talk.

Like these things never happened before 1997..

[Ultra]

Don't agree that these scumbags should be paid a "reasonable" salary. They get £64,000 per year, which is greater than 95% of wage earners in this country. And they also get 21 weeks paid holiday.

There is a complete whitewash unfolding before our eyes. Whatever they might say, fraud has been committed here. The chicken run to repay some of these expenses is just a ruse to avoid this matter going any further and to avoid legal proceedings.

Some of these fcukwits deserve to be behind bars...

Thanks to the system they set up, people in poverty have to jump through any number of hoops to claim benefits they may be entitled to. And if they make mistakes when filling in forms, they're usually NOT given the benefit of the doubt.

The main parties are on notice. If they don't clean up their act then the electorate will do it for them by booting them out of office.

How ironic would it be, however, if UKIP and the BNP - who at European and local levels respectively have been among the biggest fiddlers of all - were somehow portrayed as the "good guys"?

[Bellend Sebastian]

The system is clearly bollocks and open to abuse. However, I do find the outrage that MPs are taking advantage of it a bit weird though because if you asked the average man in the street if he'd take advantage of a system where things that you need get paid for, then he probably would. I know MPs should lead by example, but they're just people, aren't they?

Obviously I wouldn't take advantage in that way because I'm practically a perfect human being and above all temptation

[Matt]

Are they having a laugh?

Apparently a panel of senior Metropolitan Police officers are being put together to decide whether these MP's need any criminal justice or to decide if any action needs to be taken.

FFS! Do they really need a panel to discuss if any criminal justice, or if action needs to be taken? Let alone 'senior officers'. Treat them as you any one of us of the street, treat them like shit.

[Shrenchel]

Don't agree that these scumbags should be paid a "reasonable" salary. They get £64,000 per year, which is greater than 95% of wage earners in this country. And they also get 21 weeks paid holiday.

There is a complete whitewash unfolding before our eyes. Whatever they might say, fraud has been committed here. The chicken run to repay some of these expenses is just a ruse to avoid this matter going any further and to avoid legal proceedings.

I don't disagree that it's a very liveable wage, should be enough for anyone, but to get paid less than a GP, a headteacher, a decent salesperson etc when the decisions you make affect millions of people does seem a bit odd. I think all this expenses shit is disgusting but can probably understand the mindset of wanting to make a bit more out of your job when all of them could walk into a profession that pays twice as much with half the amount of stress.

[l444ry]

I don't disagree that it's a very liveable wage, should be enough for anyone, but to get paid less than a GP, a headteacher, a decent salesperson etc when the decisions you make affect millions of people does seem a bit odd. I think all this expenses shit is disgusting but can probably understand the mindset of wanting to make a bit more out of your job when all of them could walk into a profession that pays twice as much with half the amount of stress.

Thing is, Schrench, that there is no shortage of people wanting to become an MP, therefore you could make out an argument for reducing their salaries.

Most MP's are just voting fodder to get bills through parliament and have little or no responsibility for decisions. Cabinet Ministers, however, do have responsibility for decisions and are paid anything up to £40,000 over and above their MP's salary.

[Alexikokopops]

The system is clearly bollocks and open to abuse. However, I do find the outrage that MPs are taking advantage of it a bit weird though because if you asked the average man in the street if he'd take advantage of a system where things that you need get paid for, then he probably would. I know MPs should lead by example, but they're just people, aren't they?

Obviously I wouldn't take advantage in that way because I'm practically a perfect human being and above all temptation

Thank you. That's the point I was trying to make here

Lets be honest. How many people here wouldn't try slipping a few extra things on expenses if they could get away with it?

But £16,000? And however many thousands others have stolen of the general public?

That's abit more than slipping a few extra's on expenses IMO.

They've certainly not helped the recession have they? There not helping with credit crunch are they?

Good point. I imagine if you added up all the frivolous expenses MPs have made we could of staved off all this economic decline and saled through care free to the other side.

My point was that a lot people only slip a few extra's on expenses because they're worried they might get caught. If your standard office worker for example had good enough reason to think they could get away with bunging £16k on expenses I reckon there would be quite a few who jump at the chance. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just making an observation about human nature.

Are they having a laugh?

Apparently a panel of senior Metropolitan Police officers are being put together to decide whether these MP's need any criminal justice or to decide if any action needs to be taken.

FFS! Do they really need a panel to discuss if any criminal justice, or if action needs to be taken? Let alone 'senior officers'. Treat them as you any one of us of the street, treat them like shit.

Imagine the situation. You work for a company. It has a quite frankly ridiculous expenses policy. You've been putting stuff on expenses which are being passed through even though they probably shouldn't, and the company is okay-ing it all. The shareholders of the company find out about the stupid expenses rules and the CEO suddenly realises he has to make an example to appease them and fires some of the employees who have been using it a lot,. Would you expect the police to suddenly wade in and arrest anyone and everyone?

That's all a hypothetical situation, mind.

[davieG]

Thing is, Schrench, that there is no shortage of people wanting to become an MP, therefore you could make out an argument for reducing their salaries.

Most MP's are just voting fodder to get bills through parliament and have little or no responsibility for decisions. Cabinet Ministers, however, do have responsibility for decisions and are paid anything up to £40,000 over and above their MP's salary.

And no qualifications are needed just find a constituency that is prepared to select you and dominated by the party of your choosing and you're virtually home and dry.

All you need is high level of bullshittability

[Maybes]

Justice needs to be done.

[MC Prussian]

Only £16k to start with?

That's peanuts.

Very modest MPs you have there.

Aim higher.

[davieG]

Thank you. That's the point I was trying to make here

But £16,000? And however many thousands others have stolen of the general public?

That's abit more than slipping a few extra's on expenses IMO.

They've certainly not helped the recession have they? There not helping with credit crunch are they?

Good point. I imagine if you added up all the frivolous expenses MPs have made we could of staved off all this economic decline and saled through care free to the other side.

My point was that a lot people only slip a few extra's on expenses because they're worried they might get caught. If your standard office worker for example had good enough reason to think they could get away with bunging £16k on expenses I reckon there would be quite a few who jump at the chance. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just making an observation about human nature.

Imagine the situation. You work for a company. It has a quite frankly ridiculous expenses policy. You've been putting stuff on expenses which are being passed through even though they probably shouldn't, and the company is okay-ing it all. The shareholders of the company find out about the stupid expenses rules and the CEO suddenly realises he has to make an example to appease them and fires some of the employees who have been using it a lot,. Would you expect the police to suddenly wade in and arrest anyone and everyone?

That's all a hypothetical situation, mind.

Except some have been claiming for things that are clearly against the rules like mortgage interest payments that's been completed or husband/wife MPs both claim for the same thing shared expenses.

Hypothetically if you worked for a company that provided you with a regular sum to buy a car and you carried on claiming it after the car was paid for you'd be in court before you could get in reverse gear.

[Maybes]

Imagine the situation. You work for a company. It has a quite frankly ridiculous expenses policy. You've been putting stuff on expenses which are being passed through even though they probably shouldn't, and the company is okay-ing it all. The shareholders of the company find out about the stupid expenses rules and the CEO suddenly realises he has to make an example to appease them and fires some of the employees who have been using it a lot,. Would you expect the police to suddenly wade in and arrest anyone and everyone?

That's all a hypothetical situation, mind.

Yes its fraud.

[Shrenchel]

And no qualifications are needed just find a constituency that is prepared to select you and dominated by the party of your choosing and you're virtually home and dry.

All you need is high level of bullshittability

Granted but like in any job the more you pay, the higher quality of employee you attract. Surely the fact that the most talented people could breeze into a job with a salary that is 5 times higher is one of the reasons the so many fooking awful people manage to become an MP.