Football Manager 2010

[Ricey]

it amazes me still that t requires even 1 patch. the time and effort that goes into it to release it and its STILL never ready.... if it didnt have by far the best game engine and set up out there, then it would of been kicked into touch years ago.... Very few games have the luxury of such patient and loyal 'fans'

It's the nature of the game, it's complex and therefore bound to constantly throw up issues. Most games probably have twice as many bugs as we do, but most of them aren't a big deal. With FM the smallest little bug can have a knock on effect with various features in the game and become a problem.

I don't think people realise what a complex game FM. Trust me, if you took a look through the various modules of code that make up the game you would soon realise!

[shen]

It's the nature of the game, it's complex and therefore bound to constantly throw up issues. Most games probably have twice as many bugs as we do, but most of them aren't a big deal. With FM the smallest little bug can have a knock on effect with various features in the game and become a problem.

I don't think people realise what a complex game FM. Trust me, if you took a look through the various modules of code that make up the game you would soon realise!

I'm coming to the conclusion that this is actually getting more and more cumbersome for players. The game caters more for number-crunchers than it does for the regular football fan and this is reflected in the countless forum posts where players complain about the inconsistent and unpredictability of their actions. Most players don't know what the different player characteristics do, how training works, which consequences the tactical setup has etc. The game really has become so clustered with variables and factors that it is practically impossible to get a general overview of how the game works. Seasoned players like myself are trained to look for key attributes, but recently I've realised that I'm no longer sure what attributes are key for different player positions other than the obvious ones. For example the attributes Anticipation, Decisions, Flair, Off The Ball and Position are arguably all different variants of the same thing, namely positional sense. Why can't they just be grouped together as such? Free Kick Taking, Corners and Crossing are arguably the same too. At the very least the two latter ones! I know I'm not the only one who has no idea what some of the attributes effectively mean or how important they are in relation to eachother.

The complex way that the programmers have combined the attributes in the game engine isn't clear to the casual gamer and from reading lots of topics on the forums re: tactics, training, CA/PA, player attributes etc., it doesn't even seem logical how occurences are calculated. The different training schedule theories (notably SFraser's and Tug's) are quite counter-intuitive and I don't understand what the whole thing adds to the game, other than giving a select few number-crunchers something to sink their teeth into. Basically I think the game would be improved no end if aspects if the game would be simplified in order to make the game more intuitive. And that doesn't have to degrade the game or make it easier to master!

[MPH]

It's the nature of the game, it's complex and therefore bound to constantly throw up issues. Most games probably have twice as many bugs as we do, but most of them aren't a big deal. With FM the smallest little bug can have a knock on effect with various features in the game and become a problem.

I don't think people realise what a complex game FM. Trust me, if you took a look through the various modules of code that make up the game you would soon realise!

I have played every single football manager game released from its first release on the commodore 64 upto its reincarnation under SI games its been intresting to see its growth in playability and complexity

and whilst i might not be a programmer, my brother is and explained alot about the complexity of even the basic games around today so it is no suprise to me to hear someone say how complex it is.

But that doesnt alter the fact that SI are a big company and hugely experienced at making football manager games... Saying it is a complex game is no excuse, especially if you are marketing yourself as the best in the business at what you do...

[Fox96]

After Finishing West Brom 7th In Championship, I was quite angry as i was only 1 point from the playoffs.

In the new season i was 7th again when i 'accidently' declared intrest in another job. The board ultimatemed (yes i can't spell it) me and i apoligised.

They said: "Apology Reejected" and sacked me

So after a year i got a job at Yeovil. And After about 4 Months Got Sacked!

I went on holiday an put that "apply for avalible jobs" comeback from holiday, and it automatically did more than apply but accepted a contract from grays! yes Grays!

I resaigned immediatly, and now i'm at Daganem & Redbridge, Im quite happy

[Ricey]

I'm coming to the conclusion that this is actually getting more and more cumbersome for players. The game caters more for number-crunchers than it does for the regular football fan and this is reflected in the countless forum posts where players complain about the inconsistent and unpredictability of their actions. Most players don't know what the different player characteristics do, how training works, which consequences the tactical setup has etc. The game really has become so clustered with variables and factors that it is practically impossible to get a general overview of how the game works. Seasoned players like myself are trained to look for key attributes, but recently I've realised that I'm no longer sure what attributes are key for different player positions other than the obvious ones. For example the attributes Anticipation, Decisions, Flair, Off The Ball and Position are arguably all different variants of the same thing, namely positional sense. Why can't they just be grouped together as such? Free Kick Taking, Corners and Crossing are arguably the same too. At the very least the two latter ones! I know I'm not the only one who has no idea what some of the attributes effectively mean or how important they are in relation to eachother.

The complex way that the programmers have combined the attributes in the game engine isn't clear to the casual gamer and from reading lots of topics on the forums re: tactics, training, CA/PA, player attributes etc., it doesn't even seem logical how occurences are calculated. The different training schedule theories (notably SFraser's and Tug's) are quite counter-intuitive and I don't understand what the whole thing adds to the game, other than giving a select few number-crunchers something to sink their teeth into. Basically I think the game would be improved no end if aspects if the game would be simplified in order to make the game more intuitive. And that doesn't have to degrade the game or make it easier to master!

Totally agree.

However my point was the game mechanics are complex, hence why the smallest bug can cause havoc.

But you raise some very good points and they are points that have been raised in the office. Regarding the attributes though, the new tactics system has gone some way to clearing up the confusion as key attributes needed for each position/role are now highlighted.

[Ricey]

I have played every single football manager game released from its first release on the commodore 64 upto its reincarnation under SI games its been intresting to see its growth in playability and complexity

and whilst i might not be a programmer, my brother is and explained alot about the complexity of even the basic games around today so it is no suprise to me to hear someone say how complex it is.

But that doesnt alter the fact that SI are a big company and hugely experienced at making football manager games... Saying it is a complex game is no excuse, especially if you are marketing yourself as the best in the business at what you do...

It's not an excuse, it's a fact.

I'm not saying we are perfect and don't make mistakes, however just because we release 3 patches doesn't mean the game NEEDS 3 patches. The game is perfectly playable on release, but we release patches to further tweak the game and tidy it up. A lot of games companies wouldn't do that, they would leave the smaller bugs until the next release

[MPH]

It's not an excuse, it's a fact.

I'm not saying we are perfect and don't make mistakes, however just because we release 3 patches doesn't mean the game NEEDS 3 patches. The game is perfectly playable on release, but we release patches to further tweak the game and tidy it up. A lot of games companies wouldn't do that, they would leave the smaller bugs until the next release

I dont know what world you live in but it isnt a consumer based world.

its absolutely laughable if you think it was perfectly playable on realease. I have lost count of the people i know who have the game and simply couldnt play it because all the bugs annoyed them and made it unplayable. appreciate you work for them but thats just funny. In any other industry, if a product was released with KNOWN faults you would get slaughtered. And it just damages your credibility even more that the folk who work there seem to know that and release the game anyway( not talking about you, here)

[Ricey]

I dont know what world you live in but it isnt a consumer based world.

its absolutely laughable if you think it was perfectly playable on realease. I have lost count of the people i know who have the game and simply couldnt play it because all the bugs annoyed them and made it unplayable. appreciate you work for them but thats just funny. In any other industry, if a product was released with KNOWN faults you would get slaughtered. And it just damages your credibility even more that the folk who work there seem to know that and release the game anyway( not talking about you, here)

So you are saying that FM10 was unplayable on release?

I'm bound to stick up for my own company, but that statement is ridiculous. FM10 had a few niggling issues on release, like any other game does, but to say it was unplayable is a huge overreaction.

Every game ever released as been released with known faults, the thing with Sim games is that those faults are a lot more noticeable. GTA has no-end of graphical glitches and 3D bugs, but because of the nature of the game they aren't a big deal.

The aim with FM10 was to 'polish' and to get the bug totals down as low as possible. The reaction we got from the community from the Demo and release was fantastic, the general consensus was that it was a more solid, stable and smoother game. Hardly sounds like the feedback for an "unplayable" game.

I know I constantly stick up for FM on here, but I only do it when I honestly believe people are overreacting. If I agree, I don't post anything.

[lcfc_jme]

Overrated

<_<

Didn't work out for you then, shen?

I signed him once and he was a waste of 19m, although I sold him after 2 seasons for 11m and regretted it because he got top scorer in the Prem 3 years running with West Ham.

Once finished with 65 goals in a single season, with 45 coming in the league that very same year. And he's currently just 14 goals away from being Leicester's all time record league goalscorer, and I reckon he has 2 seasons left in him. Magic stuff, I love him.

[Ozwin]

Started as Milwall, hoping to create the scummiest team in the world with Bolton style tactics. Havn't had much money yet so I've only been able to bring in loans (none too scummy) although I did get Nathan Tyson who plays for Forest so it's a start.

[shen]

<_<

Didn't work out for you then, shen?

I've yet to play a team that could attract or afford him I've not yet noticed him do anything of note in the game though...

[shen]

I've yet to play a team that could attract or afford him I've not yet noticed him do anything of note in the game though...

Well well well... in the first encounter with Mr Freshwater, the bastard goes on to score a 119th minute winner in the Super Cup for Genoa after having kept him quiet all game.

[lcfc_jme]

Well well well... in the first encounter with Mr Freshwater, the bastard goes on to score a 119th minute winner in the Super Cup for Genoa after having kept him quiet all game.

lol

What a hero. I knew you'd love him.

[Ashley]

Does anybody know which coaches are the best to get in FM2010 and how to get 5* coaching?

[Fox92]

Coca-Cola Cup, first round: Millwall 0-7 Queens Park Rangers

I don't know what happened, my QPR players just went mad and kept on scoring in a fierce local derby where Millwall are only in League 1.

Mind you, we'll be on the opposite end of a 7-0 defeat when we entertain Blackburn in the third round.

[DB11]

Does anybody know how to get 5* coaching?

ddm = determination + discipline + motivating

strength, aerobics

fit * 9 + ddm * 2

>= 270 -> 7

>= 240 -> 6

>= 210 -> 5

goalkeeper

gk * 2 + ddm

>=90 -> 7

>=80 -> 6

>=70 -> 5

tactics

tac * 2 + ddm

>=90 -> 7

>=80 -> 6

>=70 -> 5

ball control

tec * 6 + men * 3 + ddm * 2

>=270 -> 7

>=240 -> 6

>=210 -> 5

defense

def * 8 + (tac + ddm) * 3

>=360 -> 7

>=320 -> 6

>=280 -> 5

attack

att * 6 + tac * 3 + ddm * 2

>=270 -> 7

>=240 -> 6

>=210 -> 5

shooting

tec * 6 + att * 3 + ddm * 2

>=270 -> 7

>=240 -> 6

>=210 -> 5

set pieces

(att + men + tec) * 3 + ddm * 2

>=270 -> 7

>=240 -> 6

>=210 -> 5

example:

strength, aerobics

fit 20 + ddm>= 45 =7

fit 19 + ddm>= 50 =7

fit 18 + ddm>= 54 =7

fit 17 + ddm>= 59 =7

goalkeeper

gkp 20 + ddm>= 50 =7

gkp 19 + ddm>= 52 =7

gkp 18 + ddm>= 54 =7

gkp 17 + ddm>= 56 =7

gkp 16 + ddm>= 58 =7

gkp 15 + ddm>= 60 =7

tactics

tac 20 + ddm>= 50 =7

tac 19 + ddm>= 52 =7

tac 18 + ddm>= 54 =7

tac 17 + ddm>= 56 =7

tac 16 + ddm>= 58 =7

tac 15 + ddm>= 60 =7

defense

def 20 + (tac+ ddm)>=67 =7

def 19 + (tac+ ddm)>=70 =7

def 18 + (tac+ ddm)>=72 =7

def 17 + (tac+ ddm)>=75 =7

def 16 + (tac+ ddm)>=78 =7

def 15 + (tac+ ddm)>=80 =7

[lildave3]

ddm = determination + discipline + motivating

strength, aerobics

fit * 9 + ddm * 2

>= 270 -> 7

>= 240 -> 6

>= 210 -> 5

goalkeeper

gk * 2 + ddm

>=90 -> 7

>=80 -> 6

>=70 -> 5

tactics

tac * 2 + ddm

>=90 -> 7

>=80 -> 6

>=70 -> 5

ball control

tec * 6 + men * 3 + ddm * 2

>=270 -> 7

>=240 -> 6

>=210 -> 5

defense

def * 8 + (tac + ddm) * 3

>=360 -> 7

>=320 -> 6

>=280 -> 5

attack

att * 6 + tac * 3 + ddm * 2

>=270 -> 7

>=240 -> 6

>=210 -> 5

shooting

tec * 6 + att * 3 + ddm * 2

>=270 -> 7

>=240 -> 6

>=210 -> 5

set pieces

(att + men + tec) * 3 + ddm * 2

>=270 -> 7

>=240 -> 6

>=210 -> 5

example:

strength, aerobics

fit 20 + ddm>= 45 =7

fit 19 + ddm>= 50 =7

fit 18 + ddm>= 54 =7

fit 17 + ddm>= 59 =7

goalkeeper

gkp 20 + ddm>= 50 =7

gkp 19 + ddm>= 52 =7

gkp 18 + ddm>= 54 =7

gkp 17 + ddm>= 56 =7

gkp 16 + ddm>= 58 =7

gkp 15 + ddm>= 60 =7

tactics

tac 20 + ddm>= 50 =7

tac 19 + ddm>= 52 =7

tac 18 + ddm>= 54 =7

tac 17 + ddm>= 56 =7

tac 16 + ddm>= 58 =7

tac 15 + ddm>= 60 =7

defense

def 20 + (tac+ ddm)>=67 =7

def 19 + (tac+ ddm)>=70 =7

def 18 + (tac+ ddm)>=72 =7

def 17 + (tac+ ddm)>=75 =7

def 16 + (tac+ ddm)>=78 =7

def 15 + (tac+ ddm)>=80 =7

Just use the coach calculator, it's much easier

[DB11]

Just use the coach calculator, it's much easier

Haha I do have that as well but I've had that document for ages so I pretty much know it off by heart now anyway.

[Budweiser]

Overreacting? How about winning the Prem & Champs League with Notts County then being unable to manage any national side, or club side because of some shitty glitch that means your applications for any jobs are in effect 'frozen'. After searching for a fix, all I could do was update FM and start a new career, not particularly playable if I can't move club..

Obviously FM is quality, but still, there are quite a few glitches around the game which is fustrating. However, it's the most addictive game out there, and the only game I really play apart from Fifa. I don't normally moan about FM but that pissed me off when I couldn't switch club, it's a simple thing really.

Anyway, I hope that sounds like im only having a little moan

[Ashley]

Thanks DB

[lcfc_jme]

Only 5* coach I've come across in the entire game is Tony Colbert, who was 5* for Aerobic or Strength. Doesn't matter though seeing as I have 4.5* coaches for everything else.

[DB11]

Patch 10.3 Released.

[Ashley]

Patch 10.3 Released.

Once i've downloaded the new patch, what folder do I put the patch in?

[Ozwin]

A patch doesn't go anywhere does it? It automatically updates the game itself.

I think.

[Ashley]

A patch doesn't go anywhere does it? It automatically updates the game itself.

I think.

I'm not sure to be honest, last year I had STEAM and let that do all the work for me just downloaded the updates when STEAM said they were ready This year i'm running it by Disk..